Stafford the stud!

[lionstop1]

Yeah, it might get funky for Luck without Wayne in there. That's going to be interesting.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Dan Snyder is a classic overspender.

I stated I'd prefer Stafford.

Luck was more than "annual thing" coming out. People have been raving about kid like no QB I have ever seen.

Sorry if that came off wrong there LP, it wasnt a post dogging you or what you said in any way. Luck was definitely highly touted I just think he benefitted much from all the press RGIII got, which I think wasnt truly warrented and he would not have gotten were it not for kings ransom the Redskins paid.

I'm not even following the choices on who would rather have Stafford and who would rather have Luck. A positive case could be made for either and a negative case couldnt be made against either. Both are excellent QB's and any team would be lucky to have them.

 

[Wazmankg]

If Stafford keeps up the pace this season and has a similar one next year? Would you call him elite then?

Yup. But winning counts too. I've always maintained winning is a team thing and it's not fair to blame the QB for the record, but the league has become so QB friendly and so passing oriented that I've changed my thinking about that somewhat. Unless the defense is total garbage (which the Lion's isn't currently) a QB has to lead his team to wins, the playoffs, playoff wins, etc. to be considered elite.

 

[broncosmitty]

If Stafford keeps up the pace this season and has a similar one next year? Would you call him elite then?


That's the thing. According to everyone, you must win a playoff game or something like that to be considered elite. That's so far from the truth, its not even funny.

But.....if that is the case, maybe he does get into that group this year!

What's the truth then Yao? (I don't think one playoff win would do it. But you gotta atleast win one, as a QB anyway. No coach would be considered anywhere near elite without some postseason success). He gets to be elite because you want him to be elite already?

 

[Wazmankg]

Nobody but Giant homers call Eli elite and probably precious few of even them do these days. As far as Rodgers & Brees are concerned, well they have several years worth of great track record to carry them through a few bad games. Anyway, a few bad games doesn't knock someone from the ranks of the elite any more than a few good ones puts them there. Staff has had 2 injury plagued seasons, 1 very good one, 1 mediocre one and 1/2 of another good one. If that vaults him into your ranks of the elite, you just have a lesser standard for that term than I.

What exactly to you have to do to be considered elite or among them? Win a SB? Dan Marino didn't. Have years of experience? No. Win a playoff game? No.

Winning helps, of course, but it doesn't make a QB elite (see Flacco). But 1 good year , 1 bad year, 1 good year... etc.. doesn't cut it. Sustained excellence over time does.

 

[broncosmitty]

He's 9-15 since the start of last season. And 5-11 since the midway point of last year. Im happy were 5-3(it's exactly what I assumed our record would be) but I have a hard time taking you guys very serious when you use descriptive terms like "great", "elite", and "future Hall of Famer". (When you say best numbers am I supposed to just ignore the 21 TDs and 17 picks last year when the lions won 4 games? Or the month without a passing TD to his own team when we lost all four of those games?)

I get what you're saying Smitty, but I'm not the type to pin all the loses on the QB like most people do. I would defend any QB in this situation. I think he's elite, but I don't know about future Hall of Fame because a lot goes into that. But I think it's reasonable to assume he'll get there if he continues to do what he's doing. Stafford had a really bad year last year, but that doesn't mean anything. People praise Eli because he has a ring but look at the guy now. Which is it? Is he good because he has a SB ring or is he bad since he's throwing tons of picks?

You can definitely find some areas on each great qb's career to pick them apart about. Rodgers wasn't playing real great for a couple weeks in a row and nobody says anything. Brees had a slump. Rivers has definitely seen some bad days. So, when you say these things about Stafford, how is it any different or worse than the others?

I don't pin all of our losses on him either. Not by a long shot. But when he plays every game and Calvin plays every game, 4 wins ain't cuttin it. To me. If we want to take "elite" status. None of the other guys you've mentioned finished last in their division and earned the 5th pick in the draft in their 4 th year as a franchise QB. I have higher expectations it seems.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

When peyton got cut I figured he was done, washed up. I just couldnt imagine a team cutting arguably the best qb of all time just to avoid a huge bonus unless he was done.

It was the uncertainty that lead to the decision. They had no idea what they were going to get back in the form of a player. They made the right decision both to let him go and to draft Luck. At least that's my opinion.

 

[broncosmitty]

It was the uncertainty that lead to the decision. They had no idea what they were going to get back in the form of a player. They made the right decision both to let him go and to draft Luck. At least that's my opinion.

I think it would have been a horrible move if Luck wasn't there. And if he hadnt turned out to be such an impressive young QB. Had he turned out like many other top picks, or got hurt, their fan base could have turned very quickly. They also brought in players for his type of game, which was smart. (Two stud TEs)

 

[LPinSLC]

Whether it's fair or not, QB's are measured by team success. The fact is, we haven't had the wins at this point to put him there for me.

This season I would say he is playing at an elite level. He also did two years ago.

Was last year a sophmore slump? Maybe. Pretty good year for a slump IMO.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Stafford has demonstrated that he's a lot smarter than the ball

now thats a priceless typo there bro.

that one made my day. I agree with you, I think he is smarter than the ball. But I dont think Linehan is.

 

[LPinSLC]

Sorry if that came off wrong there LP, it wasnt a post dogging you or what you said in any way. Luck was definitely highly touted I just think he benefitted much from all the press RGIII got, which I think wasnt truly warrented and he would not have gotten were it not for kings ransom the Redskins paid.

I'm not even following the choices on who would rather have Stafford and who would rather have Luck. A positive case could be made for either and a negative case couldnt be made against either. Both are excellent QB's and any team would be lucky to have them.

Yea no worries bro, I didn't take it that way.

I just disagree about Lucks stock coming out. Dude was one of the most NFL ready pocket passers that this league has ever seen coming out of college.

 

[lionstop1]

Ok, maybe I'll just say he's playing at a elite level then.

 

[jdwills126]

Smitty-

I think Luck will be a top 5 QB. I he was a no brainer and is a great heir apparent for P. Manning in Indy. I do not think he has the upside of P. Manning as he is in the conversation for best 5 ever. Although Manning has had the good fortune of alway having really good Wrs.

Today right now I am happy with Stafford and he has 4 year experience and is just a few years older than Luck, RG3, and any NFC West QB that one may add to the conversation.

IMO, If Stafford was on the Broncos this season they have the same record! The NFL is currently littered with good but very few great QBs.

Ryan without top wideouts looks like Jay Cutler without Brandon Marshall.

Brady without good WRs looks a lot like John Kitna.

Luck has had great WR but now without Wayne I am interested in seeing what he can do. He may exposed as a Stafford light.

Ginger boy in Cinncy lacks consistency. Last night he didn't look so great. That has been Bengal fans complaint many wanted him gone going into this season.

Jake Locker may be realizing his potential but again Stafford hands down over him.

RG3 will be only as good as his legs hold out and no way no how do I want a read option QB. You have to factor in injuries.

Wilson & Keprenick don't look so dominating this year and if with the 49ers or Seahawks have to throw to win I don't like their chances.

Pryor is a joke! Geno Smith floats balls all day long.

Wheedon = looking for new job in 2014!

Cutler is good but you can't ignore he has high probability to melt down or get injured. Big arm with bad decision making has been his issues.

Ponder? See Wheedon.

Romo? Great fantasy QB! But the next big game he single handily wins will be his first.

My rambling point is in the current NFL and going forward I would say Stafford is elite. But his status isn't set in stone like Manning. He probably leap frogs Matt Ryan.

 

[broncosmitty]

Whether it's fair or not, QB's are measured by team success. The fact is, we haven't had the wins at this point to put him there for me.

This season I would say he is playing at an elite level. He also did two years ago.

Was last year a sophmore slump? Maybe. Pretty good year for a slump IMO.

Wouldn't it be a Senior slump? '09, '10, '11, '12.... That's four years....

 

[Microwahevo]

GB has guys who ARodg has made into big names.

Wow this thread took off today. But....I gotta disagree with this one smitty. TT does his homework VERY well and I believe he drafted these players knowing they would be good with or without an Aaron Rodgers on their team. Sure, it helps having one on their team, but these WRs would still be good. That's one thing about GB, they find a ton of talent through the draft. They're unbelieveable at scouting.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Future Hall of Famer is laughable TPaul, at this point. And isn't much but another of your Lions homer bias examples. He hasn't won a playoff game. He hasn't won a division title. There can't be 7 or 8 different HOFers playing the same position in the league at the same time. And there are a few QBs who've already punched their ticket.

That's all strictly your opinion.

I think there could be 7 or 8 playing at the same time given the crop we have right now. Brady, Manning and Brees are locks. Aaron Rodgers is probably in that group as well. This is as good of group of QBs as has ever played together.

As for Stafford he's the most statistically profound QB through his first 50 starts (or whatever milestone he just passed) and fastest to 15,000 yards. When the playoff wins and a Super Bowl come he'll be a slam dunk.

I don't see my statement as any more laughable than you trying you damnedest not to buy into the hype. Stafford is delivering wins man, stop being so resistant and enjoy it. We're entering November in the driver's seat for a playoff spot, and if it wasn't for Manning we'd be discussing Stafford as a front-runner for league MVP this season.

 

[Microwahevo]

Wouldn't it be a Senior slump? '09, '10, '11, '12.... That's four years....

On one hand, you can say no b/c he missed 6 games his rookie year and then 13 games his 2nd year. So 2010 was his first full year gaining experience of a full season along the way. However......

....on the other hand, he got experience of a comeback victory against Cleveland that was his greatest moment up until this past Sunday. He also still got valuable gametime experience before exiting with those injuries and being given that "glass" description(which obviously isn't true, just some bad luck and big hits).

So I wouldn't say 2011 was a sophomore slump, but I wouldn't call it a senior slump. How about we call it a "Halfway through his Junior year motherfucking jinx"?? Sound good?

 

[LPinSLC]

Wouldn't it be a Senior slump? '09, '10, '11, '12.... That's four years....

I Conveniently left off his 2 first years due to injury.

 

[Microwahevo]

He hasn't won a playoff game. He hasn't won a division title.

I know what you're getting at smitty, and I respect it, and to a point, agree. However(I like using those instead of "but" b/c it sounds fancy) I have a question for you. If Flacco never wins another SB and maybe one or two other playoff games, does he become HOF worthy? Also, should Dilfer make the HOF b/c he "helped" win a SB?

I think the factors that go into an elite status differ in every scenario. It isn't just who wins SBs, or a ton of playoff games, or passes for the most yards/TDs. There are too many gray areas and differing circumstances for each QB.

 

[Microwahevo]

I Conveniently left off his 2 first years due to injury.

Yeah but he still got experience there. So smitty somewhat has a point(got damnit why does he have to???)