Sorry Winnipeg... Hulsizer may have just saved the Phoenix Coyotes

[Ties5o11]

I've only been to Phoenix twice in my life for a combied 5 days or so, but two of my friends who lived there said Glendale is easy to get to.

I cannot say with any authority whether the bulk of the fanbase is in Scottsdale or Phoenix or Glendale, but if you look at this map, all 3 seem to be within a few miles

glendale - Google Maps

 

[jstewismybastardson]

one vancouver writer (Matt Sekeres) highlighted his travel adventures getting to glendale

he didnt believe google map direction when he entered Scottsdale to jobing.com and it spit out 1 hr 10 minutes in traffic ... sure enough thats how long it took him

 

[ELYEAH82]

I would love a team in Vegas, not sure where they would play but it couldnt hurt the Vegas economy. As it is I went to LA for the Pens Kings game but that is still a pretty long haul

 

[UTVolCountry]

Didn't LA play someone in Vegas before?...like outdoors or somethin

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Didn't LA play someone in Vegas before?...like outdoors or somethin

yup casino parking lot i think

 

[dash]

Didn't LA play someone in Vegas before?...like outdoors or somethin

Yup, back in '91 I believe (against the Rangers)

 

[pixburgher66]

The difference I feel with this market in comparison to the situation I experienced as a fan in Pittsburgh is in success. The Pens should have never moved that year because there was a core group of fans (much bigger than the PHX ones, though some of that has to do with the fact that there's really not a ton of native PHXers), the team had history of success and was clearly on the upswing, and the fans were responding to that future with increased ticket sales and merchandise purchases. We just needed an arena. The issue in Arizona is that even though they've shown spurts of brilliance (admittedly inconsistent) and they have a very nice building, the support isn't there. You can't just let a team with potential sit there losing money...it's bad business. Teams like Chicago, Philly, Washington, San Jose, LA, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, etc are all on the upswing right now and play a brand of hockey which will help generate new fans...moving a franchise that's garnered little interest in over a decade and a half and putting them somewhere where they will generate revenue is not a bad choice.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Ive said it in other threads and even though the san jose guy above doesnt agree ... LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

if that team built an arena in Scottsdale or somehow got America West arena retrofitted for hockey ... they are a success ... this isnt about losing or being inconsistant ... its about having to drive upwards of an hour and 10 minutes 41 nights a year to watch your team

are we supposed to wait a generation for the municipality of Glendale to have a self sustaining population base

 

[wings-pens2166]

are we supposed to wait a generation for the municipality of Glendale to have a self sustaining population base

apparently, yes...at least according to Bettman

 

[puckhead]

Ive said it in other threads and even though the san jose guy above doesnt agree ... LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

seems that dude hasn't agreed with ANY of the points brought up.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

apparently, yes...at least according to Bettman

Im thinking his tune might change if the league is forced to own the team another year

 

[wings-pens2166]

Im thinking his tune might change if the league is forced to own the team another year

you're probably right. NHL revenues aren't like NFL revenues. they're only going to want to foot the bill for so long.

and with things like the Goldwater lawsuit, Gary never has to admit hockey in the desert was a bad idea. he can always lay the blame elsewhere

 

[jstewismybastardson]

you're probably right. NHL revenues aren't like NFL revenues. they're only going to want to foot the bill for so long.

and with things like the Goldwater lawsuit, Gary never has to admit hockey in the desert was a bad idea. he can always lay the blame elsewhere

which he did quite effectively when he and Daly flew into Phoenix for a day and had that surreal press conference to blame Goldwater early in the month

 

[dash]

Some more info on the latest Hulsizer proposal:

Glendale taxpayers have been given no protection against a future team bankruptcy. If the team goes bankrupt again, taxpayers will assume the full cost of bond repayment—this is on top of what taxpayers are already paying for the construction of Jobing.com Arena. Any restructured deal should legally protect taxpayers from liability for the bond repayment if the team fails again.

Arizona’s Constitution categorically prohibits the use of public debt to finance private businesses. Glendale justifies public borrowing on the grounds that the city is acquiring valuable consideration in the form of parking rights. However, the city may already own a significant portion of those rights, and the team does not presently have the legal right to sell the rest. If so, the city essentially is "selling" parking revenue rights to itself, which would be a clear violation of the Gift Clause. The new proposal does not address this.

The City of Glendale continues to ignore multiple requests from the Goldwater Institute to disclose public information related to the funding source of the $25 million and the documentation supporting the proposed arena management fees

As well, there's this little nugget:

The Arizona Republic reports that the bonds offered by the city of Glendale for Mr. Hulsizer will ultimately cost taxpayers $250-340 million. That figure includes the initial bond offering of $100 million the city plans to issue to help Mr. Hulsizer buy the team, as well as projected interest on that bond. Additionally the city is obligated to pay Mr. Hulsizer $97 million for arena management over 5 years.

Mr. Hulsizer apparently is promising only that revenues from all sources—such as arena events, rental payments, parking revenues—will total at least $75 million over 30 years and that he would make up any shortfall up to that amount. That would still leave taxpayers on the hook for as much as $362 million, which Mr. Hulsizer is not guaranteeing.

Man, those are some large numbers...

Hulsizer letter doesn't change Goldwater stance - Winnipeg Free Press

 

[jstewismybastardson]

gee i just dont know why Hulsizer doesnt use all his own money/financing for this deal, Glendale is a great hockey market

 

[wings-pens2166]

Glendale justifies public borrowing on the grounds that the city is acquiring valuable consideration in the form of parking rights. However, the city may already own a significant portion of those rights, and the team does not presently have the legal right to sell the rest. If so, the city essentially is "selling" parking revenue rights to itself, which would be a clear violation of the Gift Clause. The new proposal does not address this.

man, you just got to love government accounting

 

[puckhead]

Additionally the city is obligated to pay Mr. Hulsizer $97 million for arena management over 5 years.

Mr. Hulsizer apparently is promising only that revenues from all sources—such as arena events, rental payments, parking revenues—will total at least $75 million over 30 years and that he would make up any shortfall up to that amount.

hell, I'd take that deal.

 

[Ties5o11]

seems that dude hasn't agreed with ANY of the points brought up.

What points? I'm giving my opinions why I think the market can be viable, others are giving their opinions why they think it cannot. We can cordially disagree while respecting each others positions. My major point is this is the first time the market has had a real chance to be successful- Jstew argues that the Glendale location will be to big of a problem. Maybe he's right, maybe he is not, we'll have to see, but I respect his (and others) opinions.

 

[Ties5o11]

you're probably right. NHL revenues aren't like NFL revenues. they're only going to want to foot the bill for so long.

and with things like the Goldwater lawsuit, Gary never has to admit hockey in the desert was a bad idea. he can always lay the blame elsewhere

Listen, I understand there is a significant amount of Gary hate on these boards... and perhaps that has something to do with the abundance of Northerners on these boards... but you must admit if the NHL never expanded Southwards it would not be half the league it is today. That, along with the rule changes, which changed the game for the better IMO, are the cornerstones of Bettman's tenure.

I seem to be on the minority side on most arguments on this board, and I expect I am no different on this account.

 

[pixburgher66]

Listen, I understand there is a significant amount of Gary hate on these boards... and perhaps that has something to do with the abundance of Northerners on these boards... but you must admit if the NHL never expanded Southwards it would not be half the league it is today. That, along with the rule changes, which changed the game for the better IMO, are the cornerstones of Bettman's tenure.

I seem to be on the minority side on most arguments on this board, and I expect I am no different on this account.

I agree that the league wouldn't be the same...but you'd think that the successes of many of the other markets would allow his ego to let a few of the others go down as failures. I think most everyone can agree that a league should not be financially supporting one of it's teams. That's just wrong.