Sorry Winnipeg... Hulsizer may have just saved the Phoenix Coyotes

[BlueandWhiteForever]

Funny as well how old man river McCain and other AZ senators are practically begging Goldwater to stand down. Tells you how strong a case they have.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

This horse has been beaten to death so many times, it's not even funny anymore. Winnipeg deserves a team, and it's a shame to rip a team from any city, because even Phoenix has some great fans... but there just aren't enough of them. It's embarrassing to look at that arena. I just want the soap opera to be over, and I'm sure the players do to.

 

[sherbert1421]

I think Vegas might be ahead of KC because the team would still be close to Phx and could keep a lot of fans on TV and hardcore fans may make a Vegas run for weekend games

maybe. i just remember that back in 07 when the penguins were on the verge of relocation, kc made a strong pitch to get them into their new arena that they had just built

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Seems to me that moving a team from one desert city with a collapsing housing market and very few hockey fans to another desert city with a collapsing housing market and very few hockey fans is kind of a bad idea. What's next, moving the Islanders to Naperville?

 

[sherbert1421]

Seems to me that moving a team from one desert city with a collapsing housing market and very few hockey fans to another desert city with a collapsing housing market and very few hockey fans is kind of a bad idea. What's next, moving the Islanders to Naperville?

yea it's a bad idea. but it's bettman we're talking about here. he's oblivious to bad hockey markets

 

[Ties5o11]

lol...Do you happen to know when the NHL was at its height of popularity in the United States? It was back in 1994 when the Jets were in the league and all Phoenix had was the Suns and golf courses.

Unless you can show some evidence that A lead to B (a= NHL in Winnipeg, and B= overall popularity), then you post is simply a fallacy.

You may be able to argue that overall attendance or local tv ratings may be higher, but the NHL has far more potential to create fans in a market like Phoenix.

 

[BlueandWhiteForever]

One way or another, I think we can all agree this mess has to end. This is only making the league look bad.

 

[Ties5o11]

Funny as well how old man river McCain and other AZ senators are practically begging Goldwater to stand down. Tells you how strong a case they have.

"practically begging" haha. What do you expect them not to support the team? All he did was support the Coyotes staying in Phoenix.

I don't understand why I am responding to any of your posts since you are the same person that says:

a) Almost any Nashville, Anaheim, or Phoenix win is a farce and undeserved
b) Bettman is prejudiced against Canadains and wants %80+ of owners to be American.
c) The NHL and Bettman are rigging the playoff race for the non-traditional markets

 

[sherbert1421]

Unless you can show some evidence that A lead to B (a= NHL in Winnipeg, and B= overall popularity), then you post is simply a fallacy.

You may be able to argue that overall attendance or local tv ratings may be higher, but the NHL has far more potential to create fans in a market like Phoenix.

the problem is that that potential has never transformed into results. sure they can sell out playoff games, but they need to improve their attendance during the rest of the season. they have done well the past 2 seasons and yet they still rank near the bottom in attendance

 

[Ties5o11]

yea it's a bad idea. but it's bettman we're talking about here. he's oblivious to bad hockey markets

Dallas, Tampa Bay, San Jose, Los Angeles, St Louis, and Carolina could all easily be considered "bad markets" if they didn't already have a team in them. Ok the jury might be out on Carolina or Tampa, but for the most part those are solid NHL markets.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think the real issue here is that if the Coyotes move, I don't have a hockey market for 5 years, which means no hockey on TV for 5 years, no chance to go to games for 5 years.

Keep your concerns at home, on SportsHoopla.

 

[dash]

Unless you can show some evidence that A lead to B (a= NHL in Winnipeg, and B= overall popularity), then you post is simply a fallacy.

You may be able to argue that overall attendance or local tv ratings may be higher, but the NHL has far more potential to create fans in a market like Phoenix.

You made the following statement:

If you think the team should be moved to Winnipeg; fine. But don't complain when your favorite league becomes irrelevant.

And I countered with the fact that the NHL was at it's height of popularity back in 1994 (there was a very famous SI cover piece that read "Why the NHL is hot and the NBA is not" back around June of '94). My argument is not that Winnipeg will make the NHL more popular than Phoenix, it's that the NHL can and will remain to be popular without a team in Phoenix.

You seem to be hung up on the fact that your friends call the NHL a regional niche league that will always play 3rd or 4th fiddle to other leagues in the USA. I have a couple of suggestions:

a) Ignore them and/or
b) Get some new friends.

 

[Curtrain]

You made the following statement:

If you think the team should be moved to Winnipeg; fine. But don't complain when your favorite league becomes irrelevant.

And I countered with the fact that the NHL was at it's height of popularity back in 1994 (there was a very famous SI cover piece that read "Why the NHL is hot and the NBA is not" back around June of '94). My argument is not that Winnipeg will make the NHL more popular than Phoenix, it's that the NHL can and will remain to be popular without a team in Phoenix.

You seem to be hung up on the fact that your friends call the NHL a regional niche league that will always play 3rd or 4th fiddle to other leagues in the USA. I have a couple of suggestions:

a) Ignore them
b) Get some new friends.

I need to start spreading more rep before I can rep you again

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Unless you can show some evidence that A lead to B (a= NHL in Winnipeg, and B= overall popularity), then you post is simply a fallacy.

You may be able to argue that overall attendance or local tv ratings may be higher, but the NHL has far more potential to create fans in a market like Phoenix.

Overall popularity can be judged in certain ways (particularly now with the internet). TV ratings and payed attendance in no way vindicate the Coyotes existance. Further, I fail to see how a half-filled arena can generate buzz.

A homeless team hanging around Phoenix is not good for the overall health of the league on a number of levels.

1) They lose money.

2) Even when successful franchises play in Phoenix TV viewers are left with the impression that this is a "NICHE SPORT THAT HAS NO SUPPORT", due to so many empty seats.

3) We now have the league running a team; the integrity of the league is compromised.

4) After 16 years, with varying degrees of success, the Coyotes fail to be relevant in either Stanley Cup lore or the league's bottom line.

Get rid of them! Move them somewhere that they can be successful. I don't care if it's Winnipeg, Wisconsin or Mexico City, just do it.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Yes but still, you can't argue Goldwater's position on the Coyotes being a risk to taxpayers. They have lost money for 16 straight years. What makes them think it will stop now? Plus the deal still violates Arizona law even with the new extras.

Not looking to argue your entire point about the team moving vs. staying, but that is one loaded statement right there.

Goldwater alleges that it violates Arizona law and has threatened to sue if it goes through.

On the other hand, Glendale, the NHL, and-apparently now-John McCain think that it does not violate Arizona law.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

You seem to be hung up on the fact that your friends call the NHL a regional niche league that will always play 3rd or 4th fiddle to other leagues in the USA. I have a couple of suggestions:

a) Ignore them and/or
b) Get some new friends.

rep

if "niche" means being in 30 markets with stable revenue streams and fan support, sign me up

I dont need espn to validate my sport

 

[Ties5o11]

You made the following statement:

If you think the team should be moved to Winnipeg; fine. But don't complain when your favorite league becomes irrelevant.

And I countered with the fact that the NHL was at it's height of popularity back in 1994 (there was a very famous SI cover piece that read "Why the NHL is hot and the NBA is not" back around June of '94). My argument is not that Winnipeg will make the NHL more popular than Phoenix, it's that the NHL can and will remain to be popular without a team in Phoenix.

You seem to be hung up on the fact that your friends call the NHL a regional niche league that will always play 3rd or 4th fiddle to other leagues in the USA. I have a couple of suggestions:

a) Ignore them and/or
b) Get some new friends.

I see your point, just a couple of things:

a) I don't have an issue with friends or whatever dissing the NHL. However, at the end of the day it is more fun to watch and root for a league that is relevant, and has a large base of fans.

b) I am not sure if the NHL was at its heigh of popularity in '94 or not, but one thing I think we can all agree with is that the NHL wouldn't be close to its popularity if it did not expand South to "nontraditional markets": Los Angeles, Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, Carolina, Tampa Bay, San Jose, Anaheim, Florida, Nashville, St Louis. Some of those markets have worked out great; SJ, LA, STL, TB, Dal... some not so much; Atl, Pho, Fla. Just because one or two fail, in my opinion, does not negate or diminish the strategy of Southward expansion.

Lastly, in regards to Phoenix, the pieces have not been in place for success until, really, next year. One pre-requisite to a non-traditional market becoming successful is success on the ice. The Sharks, Kings, Dallas, TB, Carolina, have all had some or more good years and have all been able to build a fan base. Florida, Phoenix, Columbus, Atlanta have not had a long string of success and have been fairly mediocre since being in their respective cities- thus have not built a good fan base. Phoenix is really experiencing their first on ice success in the city since the late 90's, when they played in the least viable arena in the league.

Next year will really be the first "no excuse" year for Phoenix. They will finally have a viable arena, on ice success, no swirling rumors about relocation (if the Goldwater lawsuit is shut down, it would guarantee Phoenix a few years at least), and a market whose economy is on the rebound. If they go a few more years as a bad market, then they deserve to be moved.

At the end of the day, lets not forget just a few years ago Pittsburgh was also considered a failing market. Markets can, and do, turn around.

 

[puckhead]

Their first few years in the NHL they played in an arena where 1/3 of the seats couldn't even see both goals. Real money making conditions.

if you are going to bring this point up, then you should also acknowledge that the Glendale market =/= the Phoenix market.

 

[Ties5o11]

if you are going to bring this point up, then you should also acknowledge that the Glendale market =/= the Phoenix market.

Its the same market, Glendale borders Phoenix. The whole issue that "people won't drive to Glendale" is bogus.

I am not very familiar with the geography of South Florida, but I am under the understanding that Sunrise (or wherever the Panthers play) is actually an inconvenience to get to.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Its the same market, Glendale borders Phoenix. The whole issue that "people won't drive to Glendale" is bogus.

I am not very familiar with the geography of South Florida, but I am under the understanding that Sunrise (or wherever the Panthers play) is actually an inconvenience to get to.

ive heard time and again the fanbase is in Scottsdale (repeated by vancouver media after the last canucks game there) ... which is 28 miles away .... 1 hour 10 in traffic

thats similar to Sunrise, FLA