Sir Charles is and will ALWAYS be correct. Lebron doesn't and want to compete

[The Oldtimer]

Because hero ball does not win titles. Westbrook is a great talent, but there is a reason he never won with KD despite having the most talented squad in the NBA multiple times. Russ' numbers are great, but he is inefficient because he tries to do so much.

If LeBron were traded for Russ, I guarantee OKC would be better and Cleveland would be much worse (probably not the best in the East, maybe not even top 2).

Do you realize that Westbrook is "third" in the NBA this year in APG with 10 per game? Westbrook has 30 triple-doubles this year. Sure he is a hero ballplayer, just as was MJ, Kobe and LeBron was/are hero players. Yes "hero ball does win titles". Go ask MJ, Kobe, Curry and Lebron to name a few.

 

[trojanfan12]

He has already done that with Kyie.

Uh, no he hasn't. The offense runs through Lebron. Hell, Lebron pretty much runs the entire franchise.

 

[Shanemansj13]

5 rings > 3 rings, so not any list

Damn. We should just book Horry as the best or maybe Bill Russell the most overrated slapdick of all-time

 

[WiggyRuss]

He has already done that with Kyie.

Can you imagine Lebron's farewell tour at age 37 where he has to shoot it more than anyone else on a bad team ? Where he shoots it up to 50 times / game ? (neither can I)

LeBron of course has an ego- but he can supplant that for the good of the team. You already see Kyrie taking last second shots - that are designed to go for him.

Its a big reason why LeBron wanted to come play with Love and Kyrie- he knew that those guys were just entering their primes, while LeBron was, what? 30 when he came back to Cleveland.

He knows that 3-4 years from now he wont be the best player in the world. He picked a great sidekick in Kyrie to continue to do the scoring.

LeBron's talents should age well. With his all around game and his size and strength he should be able to morph into what i think will almost be like a super-version of Draymond Green- move down to PF a little more, pass more, etc. Thats how i see LeBron 3 or 4 or 5 years from now.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Fair enough, but I would rather paid Russell Westbrook the big bucks for a 5 years contract.

when you see guys like Mike Conley getting that money- and how Milsap and Lowry will get long term deals despite their age- maxing out elite players like LeBron or RW will never be a question until they are clearly regressing.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Damn. We should just book Horry as the best or maybe Bill Russell the most overrated slapdick of all-time

This is such an ignorant response that has been debunked 100 times already -But again - when comparing elite player for elite player, the fans will remember this

Michael Jordan won 6 titles
Kobe Bryant won 5 titles
Lebron James - ? - His career isn't finished, so we can't say - who knows if he gets two more, but even Michael Jordan has said Kobe comes closer to him then Lebron - Are you calling Michael Jordan stupid?

 

[Shanemansj13]

This is such an ignorant response that has been debunked 100 times already -But again - when comparing elite player for elite player, the fans will remember this

Michael Jordan won 6 titles
Kobe Bryant won 5 titles
Lebron James - ? - His career isn't finished, so we can't say - who knows if he gets two more, but even Michael Jordan has said Kobe comes closer to him then Lebron - Are you calling Michael Jordan stupid?

No bc, in everyones eyes but yours, Lebron has surpassed Kobe. He is an all-around better player. Sorry there is no I in TEAM.
Bc MJ is the greatest bball player does that mean he is right about everything. That is his opinion. YOU sound ignorant. Please stop lol.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

No bc, in everyones eyes but yours, Lebron has surpassed Kobe. He is an all-around better player. Sorry there is no I in TEAM.
Bc MJ is the greatest bball player does that mean he is right about everything. That is his opinion. YOU sound ignorant. Please stop lol.

Lebron has 3 rings
Kobe has 5 rings

5 is bigger than 3 - Just saying

 

[True Lakers Fan]

But Lebron is a competitor and his career is not finished yet.

 

[Battlelyon]

This is such an ignorant response that has been debunked 100 times already -But again - when comparing elite player for elite player, the fans will remember this
Are you calling Michael Jordan stupid?

He is not stupid, he just makes bad decisions.

The hate of LeBron is reaching desperate proportions.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

He is not stupid, he just makes bad decisions.

The hate of LeBron is reaching desperate proportions.

I don't hate Lebron - I have looked and compared their numbers and I don't think they are far apart. I also think Lebron is over-rated because Kobe finished career already and Lebron is still going. Interesting that you now think you know more than Michael Jordan who according you has made a bad decision

 

[trojanfan12]

Damn. We should just book Horry as the best or maybe Bill Russell the most overrated slapdick of all-time

Now you're posting this idiotic already debunked multiple times bullshit like Wiggy? I mean, do you really want to be that stupid?

 

[trojanfan12]

No bc, in everyones eyes but yours, Lebron has surpassed Kobe. He is an all-around better player. Sorry there is no I in TEAM.
Bc MJ is the greatest bball player does that mean he is right about everything. That is his opinion. YOU sound ignorant. Please stop lol.

Wow, decided to double down on your stupid I see. You haven't even actually responded to TLF's post. Wiggy had said that Lebron has surpassed Kobe on EVERY list.

TLF pointed out that Kobe has 5 rings to Lebron's 3. Therefore, it's a fact that Lebron has not passed Kobe on EVERY list.

You really should try reading what you're responding to, it'll save you some embarrassment.

 

[trojanfan12]

He is not stupid, he just makes bad decisions.

The hate of LeBron is reaching desperate proportions.

So is the defense of him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No bc, in everyones eyes but yours, Lebron has surpassed Kobe. He is an all-around better player. Sorry there is no I in TEAM.
Bc MJ is the greatest bball player does that mean he is right about everything. That is his opinion. YOU sound ignorant. Please stop lol.

exactly....

just because LeBron doesnt have as many rings as Kobe- doesnt mean he isnt a better player.

If you had to start your team with either of those 2- the vast majority of course pick LeBron. He is the better basketball player. I didnt even know that was a serious debate anymore.

 

[tlance]

Lebron has 3 rings
Kobe has 5 rings

5 is bigger than 3 - Just saying

If titles is your only criteria, then the Horry argument is pretty relevant.

Not all elite players are equal. Kobe was not the best player on his own team for at least 2 of those rings (maybe 3), so simply saying 5 > 3 and both are elite is not nearly enough analysis.

I certainly understand the case for Kobe ahead of LeBron, but the vast majority of people who make that claim fall into 1 of 2 categories:

1. Laker/Kobe fans
2. LeBron haters

Most people have LeBron well ahead of Kobe by now despite the ring count.

 

[tlance]

Do you realize that Westbrook is "third" in the NBA this year in APG with 10 per game? Westbrook has 30 triple-doubles this year. Sure he is a hero ballplayer, just as was MJ, Kobe and LeBron was/are hero players. Yes "hero ball does win titles". Go ask MJ, Kobe, Curry and Lebron to name a few.

Okay, have to respond to this in 2 parts. First the wrong ball:

MJ and Kobe absolutely played hero ball at times in heir careers, but the Bulls became legit once MJ bought into Phil's system and began trusting his teammates more. The Bulls moved the ball pretty darn well while they were winning titles. The same can be said for Kobe and the Lakers, although not quite to the same degree. Kobe's "hero ball" tendencies were most evident When he did not play on championship caliber teams.

Curry absolutely does not play hero ball. The Warriors move the ball as well as any team in the league over the last 20 years. He takes difficult shots from time to time, but he also makes a little of them.

LeBron does a little, burn he is also the best, most dominant player in the league and he has always been able to maintain amazing efficiency despite high usage rates. Also, the Cavs move the ball pretty darn well. Kyrie can be the sticky one, not really LeBron.

 

[tlance]

Do you realize that Westbrook is "third" in the NBA this year in APG with 10 per game? Westbrook has 30 triple-doubles this year. Sure he is a hero ballplayer, just as was MJ, Kobe and LeBron was/are hero players. Yes "hero ball does win titles". Go ask MJ, Kobe, Curry and Lebron to name a few.

I am really pulling for RUss to average the triple double, but it is important to put his numbers in context before annointing him.

First, let's look at usage rate. Usage rate is the percentage of a team's possessions that end with the player either shooting that ball, turning it over or getting to the FT line. Westbrook's usage rate this year is 42%. The NBA single season record for usage rate is 38.74% by kobe in 2005/2006. Westbrook is crushing that.

Now, we look at assists. Westbrook assists about 56% of OKC's field goals while he is on the floor. While that sounds nice, when combined with the super high usage rate, you are left with a player who has the ball in his hands constantly until he decides to pass it. No player in the history of the league has had the ball or attempted to do more than Russ is this year.

As for his efficiency, he is shooting just 42.2% from the field, and his assist to TO ratio is 1.8, good for 114th in the NBA.

In other words, given how often he shoots and has the ball in his hands, he BETTER be averaging 32 and 10. Anything much less would be kind of terrible.

Now, the rebounds are legitimately impressive. Still though, as good as Westbrook is, he is literally re-defining the term ball hog this season.

 

[trojanfan12]

If titles is your only criteria, then the Horry argument is pretty relevant.

No, it isn't. The rings argument is based on being a main player, not a role player. Amazing that people still try to use that bullshit argument.

 

[trojanfight]

Lebron absolutely doesn't want to have to compete in tough games. He saw Miami coming down back to middle of the pack team and saw Cleveland with a gifted #1 pick and rising star Irving and bailed. And still he signed these one year deals so he's not locked in should the team turn bad with a injury or whatever. This year tops it off I need playmakers this and that. Does lebron make players better really a argument or how much a multiple all stars and lethal 3 point shooters really improve. What was it a week or two ago he deferred to 2 different players with game on line.