Your Offseason Winners and Losers discussion

[trojanfan12]

I would say the Lakers won on the pure fact they got AD but waiting on Kawhi hurt them even though they still found a way to get some nice pickups: Green, Cousins at 3.5M imo.

They could have gotten Redick for $13M/year...still thinking Green was the best pickup in FA for the Lakers even at $15M/year.
Also think Cousins at $3.5M isn't a mistake, I think it would have been a good get even with FA's available.
I like bringing back Caruso and the Cook signing but other than that...they just got some bad defensive players. Either way they should get 50-55+ wins even with a decent supporting cast.

They need to start this lineup:

PG - Caruso
SG - Green
SF - Lebron
PF - AD
C - Cousins

PG - Cook
PG - Rondo (limited minutes)
SG - KCP
SF - Dudley
PF - Kuzma
C - McGee

Rondo, KCP and Dudley are very bad defensively. Not sure how much JaMaychal Green is commanding but it could be a solid move. Kuzma, Cook and McGee will actually be solid players off the bench especially Kuzma but I still feel like they need another wing.

Agree with pretty much all of this. As of right now, they have Green, AD and McGee for defense. But AD and especially McGee aren't going to be defending on the wing a lot and Lebron won't play much defense until the playoffs.

Vogel is supposed to be a good defensive coach, he's got his work cut out for him. His first order of business should be teaching Kuzma how to play NBA level defense. Kuz has the athleticism and length, but he doesn't know how to play defense at the NBA level yet.

Maybe limited minutes will help Rondo on defense because he won't have to spend as much energy running the offense.

But yeah, they need another wing defender or 2.

They should be able to win plenty of games and advance in the playoffs by out scoring teams. But they aren't winning a title that way. Especially if they see the Clippers in the playoffs because while the Lakers will be the better offensive team...the gap between the offenses will be smaller than the gap between the defenses.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Agree with pretty much all of this. As of right now, they have Green, AD and McGee for defense. But AD and especially McGee aren't going to be defending on the wing a lot and Lebron won't play much defense until the playoffs.

Vogel is supposed to be a good defensive coach, he's got his work cut out for him. His first order of business should be teaching Kuzma how to play NBA level defense. Kuz has the athleticism and length, but he doesn't know how to play defense at the NBA level yet.

Maybe limited minutes will help Rondo on defense because he won't have to spend as much energy running the offense.

But yeah, they need another wing defender or 2.

They should be able to win plenty of games and advance in the playoffs by out scoring teams. But they aren't winning a title that way. Especially if they see the Clippers in the playoffs because while the Lakers will be the better offensive team...the gap between the offenses will be smaller than the gap between the defenses.

I think they could very well have the roster like this up into the deadline, a huge thing to look out for will be buyouts...you can get some nice buyout pieces at the deadline, we have seen it the last couple years. If they can get Lebron some rest the first 50 games (not too many minutes) and be in the 1-4 seed range..then get some help at the deadline that could be enough but I think with this MLE they need to get one more wing...at least just to defend, the player doesn't have to be much offensively.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think they could very well have the roster like this up into the deadline, a huge thing to look out for will be buyouts...you can get some nice buyout pieces at the deadline, we have seen it the last couple years. If they can get Lebron some rest the first 50 games (not too many minutes) and be in the 1-4 seed range..then get some help at the deadline that could be enough but I think with this MLE they need to get one more wing...at least just to defend, the player doesn't have to be much offensively.

Yeah, one way or the other they'll need to get some defensive help if they want to win a title. Hopefully they will address that need by the deadline or sometime before that if possible.

 

[PnkPanther]

Losers-Wolves-it's just that no one cares and expects them to lose, so we don't make the list. Lost valuable role players and struck out on D'angelo trade when GSW swooped in

 

[PnkPanther]

I disagree that the Thunder were losers this year. In fact I would list them as one of the big winners for the offseason. Maybe not the biggest winner, which would be the Clippers, but pretty darn close.

The Thunder were in repeater tax hell. They were on the hook for about 50 mill just in repeater tax penalties. And they STILL were a, at best, 2nd round exit from the playoffs.

So they moved off of Paul George, got out of repeater tax hell, got a young PG who could become an all-star and got 5 1st round picks plus a couple of swaps? That is a home run. Presti probably had to restrain himself from saying yes too fast when he was offered that deal.

They don't get their 1st Clippers pick until 2022. Maybe the Clippers are still a dominant team in 2022 by PG will be 32 and Kawhi will be 31 and both of them have been pretty far from a model of stamina in the league.

All of those picks may turn out to be mid to late 1sts but even that has value.

Presti was given a chance to get out of an unwinnable situation that he couldn't do himself. No way are they a loser.

Short term-Loser (outside of financial as you mentioned)
I do think long term they could be winners

I think they got a good deal

 

[flyerhawk]

Short term-Loser (outside of financial as you mentioned)
I do think long term they could be winners

I think they got a good deal

I honestly think that too many teams stick with a roster that is good but has no chance of winning the playoffs.

When a team is given a chance to make such a huge reset like this they have to do it.

 

[PnkPanther]

I honestly think that too many teams stick with a roster that is good but has no chance of winning the playoffs.

When a team is given a chance to make such a huge reset like this they have to do it.

My beef with Thibs was he screwed the roster to get the 8th seed in the west, maybe few slots higher if Butler hadn't gotten hurt

 

[CitySushi]

oh yah...anytime you can sign a ball dominant guard with one great season under his belt that has limited athleticism to a max deal you just HAVE to do it.

I think Russell is good, but im loathe to totally 100% change my opinion on him from one season- especially as its not like his athleticism has changed from the day he was drafted.

The guy was never a great athlete- even at Ohio State. He has good length and hes a savvy player but hes not a guy who is known as an above the rim type of guy and his defense is not good.

Hes a decent shooter- little over 35% from 3.

He took almost 19 shots to get 21 points last year.

What are you saying you think a ball-dominant guard who got nearly 19 shots a game is gonna be this great fit?

There is additional trade value in the player and not just on-court potential. There are some issues of fit, but that can all be remedied by playing along side the most unselfish superstar in the league right now.

I mean it's basically a situation of being capped out and unable to sign anyone or trade for a 23 year old all-star who will likely still retain a high level of trade value throughout this season (with Klay Thompson being injured).

DLo, in this market, was always going to get a max. And compared to next years free agent crop it looks even better. He'll have a strong market barring anything crazy happening this year (which isn't out of the realm of possibility).

If you're just discussing the move based on a 1 year vacuum, considering fit, style of play, etc, then you would have a valid point. However this is not a 1 year move. It's a down the line move in which the Warriors can leverage.

 

[flyerhawk]

My beef with Thibs was he screwed the roster to get the 8th seed in the west, maybe few slots higher if Butler hadn't gotten hurt

The problem with coaches as GMs is that coaches are coaching for their jobs and can't worry about longer term issues.

 

[bksballer89]

My beef with Thibs was he screwed the roster to get the 8th seed in the west, maybe few slots higher if Butler hadn't gotten hurt

They were the 3rd seed when Butler got hurt. They likely win low to mid 50 games and finish as the 3 seed if Butler didn't get hurt

 

[PnkPanther]

They were the 3rd seed when Butler got hurt. They likely win low to mid 50 games and finish as the 3 seed if Butler didn't get hurt

They were 3rd seed with only few games from closest, it's possible, I think 5 seed would've been most likely. But it's hard to say. But either way, we invested a lot in veterans, traded out wrong player, all to get Butler and one playoff series and now we're back to finding players to surround towns with, but saddled with bad contracts (Wiggins, G. Deng, )