Rams Off-Topic Thread-All issues Welcome

[Vitamike]

No matter how you slice it, you just can't cater a truly free population's interests to any one religious belief. Religion isn't tangible enough and it's far too ambiguous.

And for the record... country music is never a strong selling point as far as I'm concerned. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me.

I get that and because I believe we both appreciate intellectual discussions I've entertained your suggestion of a 'compromise' regarding the 10 Commandments, it's not my argument.

The real rub with this for me... I don't believe that it's a 1st Amendment rights issue and it always should have been a State issue like our framers constructed it. It works within our system too because our Political System is not Legislative rather Democratic. Our legislative process should always support a Capitalistic Democracy, right?

Now you've never address my argument regarding the Irreligious folks getting a free pass on their belief system and their advantage regarding how their beliefs skirt the Establishment clause just because their 'beliefs' are not an actual religion even though they oppose religious beliefs just as the different Religions oppose one another. That last part is why the framers discussed the wall of separation in the first place. It was to keep our beliefs out of legislation, not GOD and to guard against legislative rule based on one beliefs system over another.

Right now, that's what is happening with the Irreligious and that's the issue...

The Establishment Clause
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . . .
Establishment Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now doesn't this clause slice it up by catering to the Irreligious' belief system, a minority interest, in our free population?

Doesn't sounds very Democratic to me....

 

[Caynine29]

I get that and because I believe we both appreciate intellectual discussions I've entertained your suggestion of a 'compromise' regarding the 10 Commandments, it's not my argument.

The real rub with this for me... I don't believe that it's a 1st Amendment rights issue and it always should have been a State issue like our framers constructed it. It works within our system too because our Political System is not Legislative rather Democratic. Our legislative process should always support a Capitalistic Democracy, right?

I'm glad you agree, because that's exactly what it does. But, catering to one particular religious group turns Democracy into a Theocracy.

Now you've never address my argument regarding the Irreligious folks getting a free pass on their belief system and their advantage regarding how their beliefs skirt the Establishment clause just because their 'beliefs' are not an actual religion even though they oppose religious beliefs just as the different Religions oppose one another. That last part is why the framers discussed the wall of separation in the first place. It was to keep our beliefs out of legislation, not GOD and to guard against legislative rule based on one beliefs system over another.

Right now, that's what is happening with the Irreligious and that's the issue...

Now doesn't this clause slice it up by catering to the Irreligious' belief system, a minority interest, in our free population?

Doesn't sounds very Democratic to me....

I must have missed it when you first posted it. That's my bad.

God IS a "belief".

The "Establishment Clause" doesn't cater to any one particular religious group. In fact, it does just the opposite. It's design is to treat them all equally. It's about as democratic as you can get. Lol.

I think what you're saying here, though is that because some people have no religious beliefs, they're the ones who get to do what they want. But, that's is just a skewed way of looking at it. They don't have any more influence than religious folks do. Irreligious people aren't allowed to do anything more than religious people are. Using that line of thinking... this isn't an advantage created by the government... it's a self-imposed disadvantage created by the religious groups themselves. The government has done nothing but provide equal footing. This so-called Christian persecution is just Christians waking up to see that for better or for worse, the same rules apply to everyone.

 

[Retroram52]

If we are talking guns, this is what I want and would definitely bring to ANY gunfight.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

whooooa, NICE........with your luck, you will purchase that car then they will probably come out with a NEW LAW regulating that amount of H.P. Claiming you are some sort of dangerous risk to society. ......That is cool though, nice graphics!

I have this car in my garage right now Zeke..................well OK, a picture of it as you see here. You can go to Ford's website and custom build a Mustang exactly like you want it from paint to trim to engine to graphics. Pretty cool. So that's what I did and had a poster made of it for the garage. That's probably as close as I'll ever get to owning something like this.

 

[Vitamike]

I'm glad you agree, because that's exactly what it does. But, catering to one particular religious group turns Democracy into a Theocracy.

And catering to the Irreligious groups turns Democracy to a Communist State of Marxist-Leninist.

God IS a "belief".

Yes!

And NO God IS a "belief'' too aka Nones

How are you not seeing this?

The "Establishment Clause" doesn't cater to any one particular religious group. In fact, it does just the opposite. It's design is to treat them all equally. It's about as democratic as you can get. Lol.

What's your definition of 'ALL' here?

'All' doesn't include the nones only the religious.

A law banning School prayer was made. I know you remember the 'no laws' bit the framers talked about when penning a 'Wall of Separation'

So does the School Prayer law support the nones belief system or the religious belief system?

I think what you're saying here, though is that because some people have no religious beliefs, they're the ones who get to do what they want. But, that's is just a skewed way of looking at it.

You see it as skewed because your eyes are wide shut on this.

They don't have any more influence than religious folks do.

You can't see the nones influence in banning School Prayer? Than way was it banned?

Irreligious people aren't allowed to do anything more than religious people are. Using that line of thinking... this isn't an advantage created by the government... it's a self-imposed disadvantage created by the religious groups themselves. The government has done nothing but provide equal footing.

Now you're just all lucy goosey and you know it. Self imposed Do you see equal footing with the School Prayer example?

This so-called Christian persecution is just Christians waking up to see that for better or for worse, the sam e rules apply to everyone.

Now the only time I brought up Christianity was when I was discussing YOUR compromise. I see the Christians the same as the nones. School prayer should not be banned or required, that my friend is equal footing.

 

[Retroram52]

Boss, I am thinking of buying one of those 2006-2009 Crown Vic, Police Crusiers, P71's. There are a boatload of them here in Phoenix and they go forever with that cop engine, cop brakes, spotlights and pushbar. Even municipalities in California advertise on Craigslist here. They are badass, get decent gas mileage, and since I need a work car that runs forever, because one can rack up serious miles out here in the desert where Phoenix goes on forever, I thought that one would be the logical choice.

 

[Caynine29]

If we are talking guns, this is what I want and would definitely bring to ANY gunfight.

That thing is just plain ridiculous.

 

[Caynine29]

And catering to the Irreligious groups turns Democracy to a Communist State of Marxist-Leninist.

Yes!

And NO God IS a "belief'' too aka Nones

How are you not seeing this?

What's your definition of 'ALL' here?

'All' doesn't include the nones only the religious.

A law banning School prayer was made. I know you remember the 'no laws' bit the framers talked about when penning a 'Wall of Separation'

So does the School Prayer law support the nones belief system or the religious belief system?

You see it as skewed because your eyes are wide shut on this.

You can't see the nones influence in banning School Prayer? Than way was it banned?

Now you're just all lucy goosey and you know it. Self imposed Do you see equal footing with the School Prayer example?

Now the only time I brought up Christianity was when I was discussing YOUR compromise. I see the Christians the same as the nones. School prayer should not be banned or required, that my friend is equal footing.

We could go back and forth on this for a long time, but I doubt we'll agree. But, fact of the matter is, church and state aren't, won't be and shouldn't be involved in federal government... and for good reason.

Beyond that... I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Boss, I am thinking of buying one of those 2006-2009 Crown Vic, Police Crusiers, P71's. There are a boatload of them here in Phoenix and they go forever with that cop engine, cop brakes, spotlights and pushbar. Even municipalities in California advertise on Craigslist here. They are badass, get decent gas mileage, and since I need a work car that runs forever, because one can rack up serious miles out here in the desert where Phoenix goes on forever, I thought that one would be the logical choice.

Yeah, anything built for the police is always going to be "military grade" as they say. But be careful, even though they are maintained well by most city municipality garages, you know they've also taken quite a beating over the years. And as I'm sure you can imagine, suspects do some disgusting things in those cars as well. Of course I have a buddy that has a set of 429 Police Interceptor heads that he'll sell you cheap if you don't mind them being a little warm, if you know what I mean.

 

[Retroram52]

That thing is just plain ridiculous.

Don't you know it Caynine!! Thing kicks like a mule and that would definitely be a man-up testor!!

 

[Retroram52]

Yeah, anything built for the police is always going to be "military grade" as they say. But be careful, even though they are maintained well by most city municipality garages, you know they've also taken quite a beating over the years. And as I'm sure you can imagine, suspects do some disgusting things in those cars as well. Of course I have a buddy that has a set of 429 Police Interceptor heads that he'll sell you cheap if you don't mind them being a little warm, if you know what I mean.

That is too funny about the heads!!! Yea I know what you mean on the back seats of these things. I have looked at a couple and one has to do one's due diligence or you might get something back there that would make one hurl and such!!

 

[Vitamike]

We could go back and forth on this for a long time, but I doubt we'll agree. But, fact of the matter is, church and state aren't, won't be and shouldn't be involved in federal government... and for good reason.

Beyond that... I don't know what to tell ya.

Eh, I don't blame you for dropping off the topic.

Those were some tough questions for your position to justify.

JK!

You're right, it could go on forever too if we let it.

 

[Vitamike]

Boss, I am thinking of buying one of those 2006-2009 Crown Vic, Police Crusiers, P71's. There are a boatload of them here in Phoenix and they go forever with that cop engine, cop brakes, spotlights and pushbar. Even municipalities in California advertise on Craigslist here. They are badass, get decent gas mileage, and since I need a work car that runs forever, because one can rack up serious miles out here in the desert where Phoenix goes on forever, I thought that one would be the logical choice.

Yeah, anything built for the police is always going to be "military grade" as they say. But be careful, even though they are maintained well by most city municipality garages, you know they've also taken quite a beating over the years. And as I'm sure you can imagine, suspects do some disgusting things in those cars as well. Of course I have a buddy that has a set of 429 Police Interceptor heads that he'll sell you cheap if you don't mind them being a little warm, if you know what I mean.

Words of wisdom... I work with many cities motor pools and the B/W's are used to the fullest. If you do go through with it, find one where you can look at the hours on the engine. These cars are left to idle for long periods of time so it's easy to get fooled on calculating the amount of time left on the drive train components.

 

[Retroram52]

Thanks Vita for the words of wisdom. Will do.

 

[Vitamike]

Thanks Vita for the words of wisdom. Will do.

I meant words of wisdom from Boss but I'll take it!

Yeah, we never use milage for maintenance intervals. Always use the hours with the B/W's if they can.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

My sister's boyfriend is a cop, and some of the things that go on in those cars would make you barf.

 

[ozarkram]

James Garner has passed. There is a thread on the open board. One of my all time favorites in the same mold with Glen Ford and David Jansen. He was also a very humble War hero.

 

[zeke2829]

Don't you know it Caynine!! Thing kicks like a mule and that would definitely be a man-up testor!!

2400 grn bullet??......holy crap!! Lets go woodchuck hunting! :laser:

 

[Retroram52]

There won't be anything left Zeke but if that is your intention, you have the right rifle.

 

[zeke2829]

There won't be anything left Zeke but if that is your intention, you have the right rifle.

that is my intention, a woodchuck is a filthy, dirty, destructive little animal that deserves to be vaporized!