Post Your Top 3 AL/NL MVP/CYA - End of August

[Villain]

Vs non playoff team the Nats are 13 over .500 and Harper is hitting nearly .350. Vs playoff teams the Nats are 8 under .500 and Harper is hitting .269.... not clutch. Not important. Irrelevant. Vs non playoff teams Cubs are 15 over .500 and Rizzo is hitting .257. Vs playoff teams Cubs are 8 over .500 and Rizzo is hitting .321 with 9 game winning rbi in just those games. That's the difference in the 2 teams. One is led by a guy who balls in big games and the other is led by a guy who bails in big games.

There is no correlation between in-season records against playoff/+.500 teams and playoff success. For example, both WS teams last year had losing records against opponents over .500 during the regular season.

It is completely meaningless.

 

[rmilia1]

There is no correlation between in-season records against playoff/+.500 teams and playoff success. For example, both WS teams last year had losing records against opponents over .500 during the regular season.

It is completely meaningless.

Who is talking about,playoff success? I'm talking about value. Both teams perform well vs bad teams. When they play good teams Rizzo outperforms harper thus helping his team win games and make the playoffs. RIZZO IS BETTER vs good teams. HARPER IS WORSE... BY A LOT. That's what I mean when I say value. As in valuable

 

[Villain]

Who is talking about,playoff success? I'm talking about value. Both teams perform well vs bad teams. When they play good teams Rizzo outperforms harper thus helping his team win games and make the playoffs. RIZZO IS BETTER vs good teams. HARPER IS WORSE... BY A LOT. That's what I mean when I say value. As in valuable

You used a lot of (terrible) numbers to make your point. This is an MVP conversation, not statistics class. Please be a stat nerd somewhere else.

 

[Villain]

"I'm talking about value, numbers have nothing to do with the ability to measure value. Except the numbers that I cherry pick and measure individual performance horribly. Let's agree to disagree, it's cool."

--@rmilia1

 

[rmilia1]

"I'm talking about value, numbers have nothing to do with the ability to measure value. Except the numbers that I cherry pick and measure individual performance horribly. Let's agree to disagree, it's cool."

--@rmilia1

Whatever V. Never discounted stats. I said they aren't the only way to judge MVP. And yes stats I provided are morecrelevant. I've never said Harper didn't have the better numbers. I said he got the majority of those numbers vs bad competition and he has. Harper is Boise St and Rizzo is Alabama. Just reality. If you want cool stats go with Boise. If you want wins go with Bama.

 

[apachef4]

There isn't an above .500 team Harper has played against this year that is 1 or 2 gamea out of a playoff spot. Not one.

By my count, the only above .500 team that the Nats have played this season that is not currently in a playoff spot is San Francisco.

 

[rmilia1]

By my count, the only above .500 team that the Nats have played this season that is not currently in a playoff spot is San Francisco.

That's correct and they aren't 1 or 2 games out of a playoff spot

 

[ericd7633]

Damn Harper's OPS against current playoff teams is only .936. That is so terrible, I mean that would only rank him 3rd in the entire NL, with those numbers alone.

 

[Villain]

Strength of schedule is not a thing in baseball and is completely meaningless.

Bryce Harper against selected pitchers, 2015:

Jacob DeGrom: 2 doubles, 1 HR, 1.495 OPS
Shelby Miller: 2 doubles, 1 HR, 1.444 OPS
Julio Teheran: 1 double, 1 HR, 1.556 OPS
Madison Bumgarner: 1 HR, .952 OPS (he is one of only two lefties to hit a homer off of Bumgarner this year.)
Noah Syndergaard: .857 OPS
Jon Lester: 1 HR, 2.667 OPS
Aroldis Chapman: 2.000 OPS
JP Howell: 2.000 OPS
Kenley Jansen: 1.667 OPS
Masahiro Tanaka: 1.667 OPS
Jose Fernandez: 1.100 OPS
Johnny Cueto: 0.833 OPS
Mike Fiers: 1 HR, 2.333 OPS
Bartolo Colon: 1 HR, 2.333 OPS
Tyler Clippard: 1 HR, 2.500 OPS

LOL, look at those scrubs!

 

[ericd7633]

I used stats earlier to CLEARLY show that Harper has been terrible in games vs good teams. The same stats show Rizzo to be outstanding. All of you then back pedaled and claimed every game is the same which we ALL know is a crock of shit. Harper has done his damage vs bad teams in irrelevant gamea. That's FACT. If you guys want to reward him for that then that's your prerogative.

So if Harper has been "terrible" against playoff teams with an OPS of .936, what the hell does that make Rizzo's entire season then with an OPS of .902?

 

[StanMarsh51]

There isn't an above .500 team Harper has played against this year that is 1 or 2 gamea out of a playoff spot. Not one.

You're arguing semantics, as you know I really mean teams are still in contention and have a shot.

If you were to look at just the 10 teams currently in the lead for a playoff spot, Harper has a collective .930 OPS vs them with 11 HR in 197 plate appearances.

Just to put Harper's .930 OPS vs current playoff spot leading teams into perpsective, that would be top 10 in the majors and 4th in the NL. Not terrible at all.

 

[rmilia1]

Damn Harper's OPS against current playoff teams is only .936. That is so terrible, I mean that would only rank him 3rd in the entire NL, with those numbers alone.

3rd behind who?? And yes it is terrible compared to his numbers vs non playoff teams. Greats play great vs great teams. They don't play worse. Period.

 

[rmilia1]

You're arguing semantics, as you know I really mean teams are still in contention and have a shot.

If you were to look at just the 10 teams currently in the lead for a playoff spot, Harper has a collective .930 OPS vs them with 11 HR in 197 plate appearances.

Just to put Harper's .930 OPS vs current playoff spot leading teams into perpsective, that would be top 10 in the majors and 4th in the NL. Not terrible at all.

Cool. It's whatever. Harper plays worse in big games Rizzo plays better. That just reality. 2 for 4 with 2 rbi and a home run today in a must win vs pittsburgh. Been that way all year. It's why teams make playoffs and it's why you can't win the MVP if you dont

 

[ericd7633]

3rd behind who?? And yes it is terrible compared to his numbers vs non playoff teams. Greats play great vs great teams. They don't play worse. Period.

That .936 OPS would rank behind Votto and Goldschmidt, when looking at overall OPS(excluding Harper of course) And you are seriously going to argue a .936 OPS against playoff teams is awful? That's so fucking absurd man. That's a good OPS against anybody. Guess what Trout's OPS was last year when he won the MVP?? It was .939. His numbers against playoff teams were basically the same as what Trout put up overall.

His numbers against playoff teams is worse, but only because he's put up arguably a top 7ish season all-time against non playoff teams, which by the way still counts for something.

 

[rmilia1]

That .936 OPS would rank behind Votto and Goldschmidt, when looking at overall OPS(excluding Harper of course) And you are seriously going to argue a .936 OPS against playoff teams is awful? That's so fucking absurd man. That's a good OPS against anybody. Guess what Trout's OPS was last year when he won the MVP?? It was .939. His numbers against playoff teams were basically the same as what Trout put up overall.

His numbers against playoff teams is worse, but only because he's put up arguably a top 7ish season all-time against non playoff teams, which by the way still counts for something.

Didn't say it was awful. I said he plays worse vs better competition which he does. I said the majority of his stats cane vs bad teams which they do AND I said the exact opposite is true for Rizzo which it is. That's why Harper isn't MVP imo and it's why the cubs are a playoff team and the Nats are under achievers. Argue all you want but all of that is 100 percent right

 

[Villain]

Funny thing is, the weighted stats like wRC+ and WAR (you know, the ones that clearly show how legendary this season from Harper is), they all are weighted against the rest of the league. So if a player has 200 wRC+ in the steroid year, it's just as impressive as a 200 wRC+ in the dead ball era.

Harper's numbers are unreal. He has been the most valuable player in the national league this year. The rest of his team shit the bed.

It's not a team award. It's not the "best guy on a playoff team" award. They have MVP awards in the playoffs if you need that.

 

[Kevin12773]

Funny thing is, the weighted stats like wRC+ and WAR (you know, the ones that clearly show how legendary this season from Harper is), they all are weighted against the rest of the league. So if a player has 200 wRC+ in the steroid year, it's just as impressive as a 200 wRC+ in the dead ball era.

Harper's numbers are unreal. He has been the most valuable player in the national league this year. The rest of his team shit the bed.

It's not a team award. It's not the "best guy on a playoff team" award. They have MVP awards in the playoffs if you need that.

Agreed. I'm a huge Rizzo guy and a Cubs homer but Harper is MVP end of story.

 

[ericd7633]

Didn't say it was awful. I said he plays worse vs better competition which he does. I said the majority of his stats cane vs bad teams which they do AND I said the exact opposite is true for Rizzo which it is. That's why Harper isn't MVP imo and it's why the cubs are a playoff team and the Nats are under achievers. Argue all you want but all of that is 100 percent right

Yeah and his numbers against playoff teams are STILL MVP calibur. You're penalizing him because he can't put up a 1.300 OPS against playoff teams? That's absurd. Also I'm not sure why you're weighing games against playoff teams more than any other game. If Rizzo wouldn't be shitty against the shitty teams maybe the Cubs would be in first?

And why are you putting all the blame on Harper for the Nats not being as good as they were supposed to be? Yet Werth, Zimmerman Desmond and the rotation go unblamed.

 

[rmilia1]

Yeah and his numbers against playoff teams are STILL MVP calibur. You're penalizing him because he can't put up a 1.300 OPS against playoff teams? That's absurd. Also I'm not sure why you're weighing games against playoff teams more than any other game. If Rizzo wouldn't be shitty against the shitty teams maybe the Cubs would be in first?

And why are you putting all the blame on Harper for the Nats not being as good as they were supposed to be? Yet Werth, Zimmerman Desmond and the rotation go unblamed.

Not putting all the blame on him. I'm pointing out Rizzo has superior numbers in big games and you and I both know that games vs teams ahead of you are more important. For the last time Harper has MVP numbers. I myself wouldn't give it to him for all the reasons I've stated. You and others disagree. That's fine. I don't have to agree with you and I've given plenty of valid reasons why I dont. Seriously it'll be ok

 

[Villain]

And why are you putting all the blame on Harper for the Nats not being as good as they were supposed to be?

He probably watches the Sports Reporters on Sunday mornings, just eating up everything those out-of-touch old farts are saying.