Post Your Top 3 AL/NL MVP/CYA - End of August

[StanMarsh51]

Didn't say it was awful. I said he plays worse vs better competition which he does. I said the majority of his stats cane vs bad teams which they do AND I said the exact opposite is true for Rizzo which it is. That's why Harper isn't MVP imo and it's why the cubs are a playoff team and the Nats are under achievers. Argue all you want but all of that is 100 percent right

You did say he was 'terrible,' which is pretty much the same thing.

I used stats earlier to CLEARLY show that Harper has been terrible in games vs good teams.

 

[rmilia1]

You did say he was 'terrible,' which is pretty much the same thing.

I used stats earlier to CLEARLY show that Harper has been terrible in games vs good teams.

Only in comparison to his games vs other teams. And that is true.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Only in comparison to his games vs other teams. And that is true.

But if he's playing at an MVP caliber level vs just about everybody, why does it matter?

I mean, if he were hitting .220 with a .700 OPS vs playoff teams that would be one thing, but when he has a .930 OPS vs playoff teams, what he does vs non-playoff teams shouldn't diminish that. That .930 OPS is still great despite facing much better pitching staffs (on the whole) vs the playoff teams.

 

[rmilia1]

But if he's playing at an MVP caliber level vs just about everybody, why does it matter?

I mean, if he were hitting .220 with a .700 OPS vs playoff teams that would be one thing, but when he has a .930 OPS vs playoff teams, what he does vs non-playoff teams shouldn't diminish that. That .930 OPS is still great despite facing much better pitching staffs (on the whole) vs the playoff teams.

I hear you, you guys asked for reasons other than his team sucking that I wouldnt give him MVP. His drop in performance vs teams ahead of his in the standings is a reason. Just trying to debate I have already said multiple times that Harper IS going to win the MVP. Im just giving food for thought on why I, myslef, wouldnt give it to him

 

[Villain]

I hear you, you guys asked for reasons other than his team sucking that I wouldnt give him MVP. His drop in performance vs teams ahead of his in the standings is a reason. Just trying to debate I have already said multiple times that Harper IS going to win the MVP. Im just giving food for thought on why I, myslef, wouldnt give it to him

The thing is, there are voters who think like you. They are bad. They need to get beaten into submission and be shown the light.

They're not here. You are. We will beat you into submission. We will show you the answer, the light, the way.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[rmilia1]

The thing is, there are voters who think like you. They are bad. They need to get beaten into submission and be shown the light.

They're not here. You are. We will beat you into submission. We will show you the answer, the light, the way.

Spoiler

View attachment 30547

Spoiler

View attachment 30548

LOL, I know there are voters who think like me and I love those guys

 

[Villain]

LOL, I know there are voters who think like me and I love those guys

Did you pay attention to that list of pitchers I gave who Harper has been good against? Your logic that his performance against "tougher" teams is the only performance that matters (or matters more, whatever), completely ignores that fact that he got to one of the best lefty-on-lefty pitchers in baseball, Madison Bumgarner. He also got to Aroldis Chapman - another guy who's damn near impossible to get to. He got to Masahiro Tanaka.

Also, I listed a bunch of really good pitchers for the Mets - Colon, Syndergaard, Clippard.

<.500 teams can have a scrub pitcher or two, >.500 teams often have one or a couple guys who are really, really good. Your opinion ignores and discounts that completely, which is why I disagree with it so vehemently.

With all that said, fine. We can agree to disagree on your opinion (performance against +.500 teams matters more). I'll let you wallow in wrong-land. What we cannot agree to disagee on is the fact that your argument (Harper's performance against +.500 teams hasn't been MVP caliber) doesn't even hold water. It's simply not true, as several others in this thread have excellently illustrated. Harper has been stupidly good this year.



You're either being dense or stubborn on this one.

 

[rmilia1]

Did you pay attention to that list of pitchers I gave who Harper has been good against? Your logic that his performance against "tougher" teams is the only performance that matters (or matters more, whatever), completely ignores that fact that he got to one of the best lefty-on-lefty pitchers in baseball, Madison Bumgarner. He also got to Aroldis Chapman - another guy who's damn near impossible to get to. He got to Masahiro Tanaka.

Also, I listed a bunch of really good pitchers for the Mets - Colon, Syndergaard, Clippard.

<.500 teams can have a scrub pitcher or two, >.500 teams often have one or a couple guys who are really, really good. Your opinion ignores and discounts that completely, which is why I disagree with it so vehemently.

With all that said, fine. We can agree to disagree on your opinion (performance against +.500 teams matters more). I'll let you wallow in wrong-land. What we cannot agree to disagee on is the fact that your argument (Harper's performance against +.500 teams hasn't been MVP caliber) doesn't even hold water. It's simply not true, as several others in this thread have excellently illustrated. Harper has been stupidly good this year.

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You're either being dense or stubborn on this one.

WINNER!!!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Rmilla, you sure you are not trolling... Again, if you JUST said that Rizzo is MVP because you think the MVP has to be a playoff team, nobody would have argued with you... People would have disagreed, but that is an opinion you are very welcome to have...

The problem is that you tried to use stats to prove Rizzo was "MORE VALUABLE" than harper, and others... And any stat that proved you wrong, you just dismissed... Once you use stats and there is an overwhelming amount of it to prove you wrong, then it is no longer an opinion... You are just flat out WRONG...

 

[rmilia1]

Rmilla, you sure you are not trolling... Again, if you JUST said that Rizzo is MVP because you think the MVP has to be a playoff team, nobody would have argued with you... People would have disagreed, but that is an opinion you are very welcome to have...

The problem is that you tried to use stats to prove Rizzo was "MORE VALUABLE" than harper, and others... And any stat that proved you wrong, you just dismissed... Once you use stats and there is an overwhelming amount of it to prove you wrong, then it is no longer an opinion... You are just flat out WRONG...

Not trolling just providing an unpopular contrary view that is 100 percent a view voters could hold. Not enough to matter buy if everyone agrees then this shit is no fun

 

[Villain]

Not trolling just providing an unpopular contrary view that is 100 percent a view voters could hold.

So you're playing devil's advocate?

Not enough to matter buy if everyone agrees then this shit is no fun

Yeah, disagreeing and having a back and forth is great. But it is 1,000,000x more rewarding when one side is at least willing to give a little ground or even have their mind changed.

Nothing wrong with changing your stance after you're presented with new and convincing information/perspective.

 

[rmilia1]

So you're playing devil's advocate?


Yeah, disagreeing and having a back and forth is great. But it is 1,000,000x more rewarding when one side is at least willing to give a little ground or even have their mind changed.

Nothing wrong with changing your stance after you're presented with new and convincing information/perspective.

Jeez V I already said Harper was going to win MVP and had better numbers. How much more do you want? Lol. Just trying to spark debate and man did I think of all the fun we had

 

[Villain]

Jeez V I already said Harper was going to win MVP and had better numbers.

Well Zack Greinke is going to win the Cy Young but I think Kershaw is more worthy.

Spoiler

How much more do you want? Lol. Just trying to spark debate and man did I think of all the fun we had

Well, just because you admit that Harper is going to win (as I admit that Greinke will win), you don't concede that he should. And your reasons are bad.

And yeah, I'm actually having a blast. I love arguing and trying to be a know-it-all. I love baseball. So, yeah, I'm not knocking you for taking part in the discussion, I'm just not giving up because this is fun for me.

But you should give up and admit that we're all right and you're all wrong. Because I also like to win.

 

[rmilia1]

I actually think Arrieta may win the Cy Young now... lol

 

[rmilia1]

Dude I love Hammer.. dude is so underrated. His WAR is 10 plus

 

[Villain]

I actually think ERA is the only thing that matters for the Cy Young... lol

 

[rmilia1]

Arrieta has been the best pitcher in baseball second half. If Greinke wins I'm cool but I think the 2 LA guys may split votes and Arrieta wins

 

[Villain]

Arrieta has been the best pitcher in baseball second half.

Nope.

If Greinke wins I'm cool but I think the 2 LA guys may split votes and Arrieta wins

Not going to happen. Was never a problem for Carpenter/Wainwright, Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz, Halladay/Lee, Sabathia/Lee....

The voting structure doesn't hurt teammates.

 

[rmilia1]

Nope.


Not going to happen. Was never a problem for Carpenter/Wainwright, Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz, Halladay/Lee, Sabathia/Lee....

The voting structure doesn't hurt teammates.

Nope? How in the world do you figure? 13-1, 1.04 era, no hitter.. too late for me to look up the other shit but if someone has been better than that since the halfway point I'd love to hear about it cuz I missed it

 

[ericd7633]

Greinke: 18-3, 1.65 ERA, 185 SO, .85 WHIP, 8.5 WAR, 226 ERA+
Arrienta: 19-6, 1.96 ERA, 209 SO, .92 WHIP, 7.4 WAR, 201 ERA+
Kershaw: 14-6, 2.12 ERA, 264 SO, .89 WHIP, 6.6 WAR, 176 ERA+

Greinke should win it IMO. Only thing Arrieta has the advantage in is strikeouts.

I'm sure @rmilia1 will disagree but Greinke's season is historically great. I'd say it's a top 10 season over the last 100 years. Which is saying something.