Perk to Cleveland

[WiggyRuss]

When are you gonna shit or get off the pot with this years Cavs?

Are they a Championship Team or not?

You keep giving yourself an out.

I think the Bulls are the only Team capable of beating them in the East.

Sure, the Hawks are a great story and it would be great to see a bunch of " No name brand guys " defeat the over-hyped Cavs.

But, I don't believe that will happen.

I picked the Bulls to come out of the East and I think they can if Pau and Butler lead the way.

If Rose is the #1, they are doomed.

I think the Spurs or Griz will win the Chip.

But, the Cavs can beat everyone else in the West.

they really should beat the Bulls- at this point- id call it a major dissapointment if they dont beat the Bulls- the Bulls still have problems generating offense- and their defense is not what it was a year or two ago....they definitely should make the finals

 

[WiggyRuss]

I present to you the 1979-80 Los Angeles Lakers.

The 1978-79 Lakers were coached by Jerry West, finished 47-35 and were eliminated in the Western Conference Semi-Finals.

6 players from the '78-'79 team were not on the '79-'80 Lakers. An additional 4 players were traded during the '79-'80 season. 2 (Ron Boone and Kenny Carr) were traded 6 games into the season, 1 (Ollie Mack) was traded 27 games into the season and 1 (Don Ford) was traded 52 games into the season.

Additionally, head coach Jack McKinney suffered a near fatal head injury 19 games into the season and was replaced by Paul Westhead whose NBA experience was as an assistant coach to Jack McKinney for those 19 games before his injury. They won the championship defeating the favored Philadelphia 76ers 4 games to 2.

So yes, it's been done.

Another Cavs excuse shot all to hell.

Your own Post Trojan...Post 240 of the Officials Cavs thread.


Experience is also a factor. When Lebron, D-Wade and Bosh teamed up, all 3 of them had been to the playoffs, Lebron had been to the finals and D-Wade had not only won a championship, but was a finals MVP. Of the Cavs big 3, only Lebron has even been to the playoffs. No one has any idea how Love and Irving will respond under playoff pressure.

The Cavs also have a head coach who hasn't coached an NBA game. Sure, he's been a great coach and won overseas, but overseas is not the NBA.

Like I said, the Cavs have question marks. It doesn't mean that they can't put it all together and win a title. But it's a bit early to be hanging banners and planning parades.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

out of the 4 teamsi think have a legit shot to win itin the West- who do you think the Cavs would be favored against?

Memphis, San Antonio, Golden State, OKC........


If push came to shove- my prediction is the Cavs make the Finals and lose. I think continuity is too important in basketball- and that Kyrie, Love and LeBron need a year of playing together- its obvious Love is not totally comfortable yet-

having said that, CAN they beat anyone? Sure- the team is very talented. In addition to their big 3- they have 4 very solid role players in Mozgov, Shumpert, Thompson and Smith......Kyrie and LeBron have actually gelled very nicely with Kyrie. If it was just continuity maybe I could look past it-but with a coach that has never coached in the NBA before, and has never gone through a playoff, that is a lot.

Is it insurmountable? definitely not....is it likely? ehhh... i dunno....

sometimes its your year- and sometimes its not....to me it kind of FEELS like its Golden States year...they do have a new coach- but hes been in the NBA before (and hes been a GM even- which is a nice advantage) and their whole team is pretty much back from last year- Thompson, Curry, Bogut, Iggy, Barnes, Green etc........

Memphis is really good too....Conley has really raised his game- and their core- Randolph, Gasol, Conley, Allen- have played together for a longtime now....

we shall see....

I don't know...

I just don't trust that the Warriors or Hawks are as good as their records.

Plus, we all know that it's all about matchups.

Again, if Durant and Westbrook are healthy and they face the Warriors in round one?

Listen....

You have the best player in the NBA on your Team with 2 other All Star caliber players.

You have shooters, albeit streaky ones, in Smith, Miller, Love and Kyrie.

You have a legit Center in Mozgov and a goon in Perkins.

They can win.

But, I'm picking the Spurs until they are out to sea or the Griz.

Great TEAMS can overcome great INDIVIDUAL talent.

Time to find out if the Cavs are worth the sum of their parts.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Posts from bskballer89 and Trojanfan on the Cavs winning a title this year.

Post from Trojan Fan- the thread is
Media need to stop comparing the cavs to the 2010-2011 Heat- the post is #2

Great points. The Heat situation worked because you had 3 experienced star players who went in knowing what was going to be required of them for it to work. One of them, Wade, even already had experience with making room for another superstar in order to win a title. They also all had at least some playoff experience with Lebron having been to the finals. Even with that, they weren't able to capture a title in their first season together.

In Cleveland, you have 3 star players coming together and one of them has experience making room for other star players to win a title. That's where the similarities end. Love and Kyrie have zero playoff experience and zero experience with making room for other stars.

Assuming they stay together, I think they will figure it out and probably even win a title or 2. I just don't think it will be this year.

BSKBALLER- from the same thread- post 1- posting an article about the Cavs "lack of cohension"- the EXACT thing i cite as the reason why I think they wont be favored to beat a west team with great talent AND cohesion frombeing together

The Cavaliers are enduring the effects of a lack of cohesion and an absence of confidence in each other. And, at this point, it's officially more concerning than anything that long-ago Heat team went through.

For starters, that team actually started 7-4, not 5-6 as the Cavaliers have, even though everyone only remembers that Miami slipped to 9-8 on a deflating night in Dallas. That Miami team had three blowout victories in its first five games. This Cavaliers squad has had just one, in its eighth contest, against Atlanta. That Miami team didn't lose for a third time by double digits until its 41st outing, on Jan. 13, even though it was without two of its top five projected players, Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem, for most of that time. This Cavaliers squad, which has lost one rotation guy (Matthew Dellavedova) has already lost by 19, 13 and nine, with only a Dion Waiters garbage-time jumper saving it from a double-digit defeat against Denver.

That Miami team didn't look as lethargic, and its players didn't look like they loathed each other, as this team and these players appear to at times. Things were messy, for sure, especially as the three established stars, adjusting to redefined roles, tripped over one another, but that never seemed to be from a lack of earnest effort.

This is a decidedly different situation.

In Miami, he had a coach who had NBA experience—two playoff seasons as the head man—with the organization's full commitment. Pat Riley's unconditional support gave that coach an opportunity and the space to find his footing, even in the face of intense media pressure. And a 9-8 start turned into a 21-1 stretch.

Will Blatt, who acknowledged that some of his European teams have started slowly, get the backing he needs to make his way? And to make his team believe in him?

In Miami, James had proven championship partners, starting with Dwyane Wade, to help him chart the course, players who ultimately were more concerned with collective goals, even if those ambitions came at an individual cost.

In Miami, James had teammates who made it a mission to get him the ball in the proper spots, so he could lift his percentages, and by extension, the group as well.





thats what you call doing your research and finding case law that is on point.

I award myself summary judgment.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

they really should beat the Bulls- at this point- id call it a major dissapointment if they dont beat the Bulls- the Bulls still have problems generating offense- and their defense is not what it was a year or two ago....they definitely should make the finals

They look GAWD AWFUL some games.

Why won't Thibs/Noah/Gasol....SOMEBODY...tell Rose to stop shooting fricking jumpers and take the ball to the damn hole?!?!?

The games could be so much easier if he did that and scored, or kicked to an open shooter.

I would damn near prefer Noah shooting 20 foot jumpers over Rose.

 

[WiggyRuss]

They look GAWD AWFUL some games.

Why won't Thibs/Noah/Gasol....SOMEBODY...tell Rose to stop shooting fricking jumpers and take the ball to the damn hole?!?!?

The games could be so much easier if he did that and scored, or kicked to an open shooter.

I would damn near prefer Noah shooting 20 foot jumpers over Rose.

he scared me in that Cavs game right before the rbeak though- he took it the hole with a vengeance and looked angry with something to prove....

DO I think he can do it 4 times in 7 games AND have Gasol go off in those games as well? I doubt it- but I would give tehm a 1/5 chance...

Rose NEEDS to get 25 and play big time- AND another guy- probably Gasol needs to get 20- and then theyprobably need a good shooting performance out of a Dunleavy or Snell- can that happen 4 times in 7 games?

I doubt it....Rose is to banged up to do that 4 times in 7, Gasol is too old to do that 4 times in 7- and Snell is too inconsistent.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

he scared me in that Cavs game right before the rbeak though- he took it the hole with a vengeance and looked angry with something to prove....

DO I think he can do it 4 times in 7 games AND have Gasol go off in those games as well? I doubt it- but I would give tehm a 1/5 chance...

Rose NEEDS to get 25 and play big time- AND another guy- probably Gasol needs to get 20- and then theyprobably need a good shooting performance out of a Dunleavy or Snell- can that happen 4 times in 7 games?

I doubt it....Rose is to banged up to do that 4 times in 7, Gasol is too old to do that 4 times in 7- and Snell is too inconsistent.

Yeah, he is hell when he takes it to the hole.
Watching him take jumpers is almost as painful as watching Jordan shoot free throws...almost .

I think it's time to accept the fact that Butler is the Alpha in Chicago and just run with it

I honestly expected the Bulls shooters to be more of a factor this Season.

 

[trojanfan12]

Wait a


Wait a minute wait a minute- your comparing that to team that MISSED THE PLAYOFFS last year- and has a coach that has never coached in the NBA?

wait wait....jus to get this straight- one hand- 30 some win team with a coach that never coached in the league- and only has 3 returning players------- to a team that won 47 games AND a playoff series?!

Compared to a team that won 47 games and won a playoff series?!!! REALLY???? REALLY?

BAHHAHAHAAHA....cmon man.....thats a bigger reach than thinking Wade would be healthy for a whole NBA season at this point in his career

This is among your stupidest posts ever and considering your history, that's really saying something. You asked for the following criteria:

A team that had a coach who had never coached in the NBA or was a rookie head coach. Check
A team that had over 50% turnover. Check
That team won the title. Check

I even took it one step further and showed that an additional 4 players were traded during the season.

Now, because you were wrong (as usual) and had another one of your excuses blown all to hell, you want to move the goalposts and say they could only win a certain number of games?!?

Bullshit. That fucktardery won't fly here. It never has and it never will. You were proven wrong and I would suggest that you man up, admit it and stop behaving like a 14 year old. We have an age limit on the Hoop.

 

[trojanfan12]

ok....so just so we are on the same page now- you are saying playoff experience should not matter for the CAvs? I have contended that all along but a lot of other people have said otherwise...

and like i said- a month and a half ago numerous people were ripping on the Cavs chances- a hot streak and now its championship or bust?

just so i can get it straight....

and i find it odd that you would say right now if the CAvs faced a number of teams i nthe Finals they would be an underdog- but its championship or bust...i dont understand how that works...can you enlighten me?

Over half the roster was changed from the previous season idiot. Oh, and the player who led them to the title was a rookie with zero playoff experience and they had a rookie head coach who also had zero playoff experience.

 

[WiggyRuss]

This is among your stupidest posts ever and considering your history, that's really saying something. You asked for the following criteria:

A team that had a coach who had never coached in the NBA or was a rookie head coach. Check
A team that had over 50% turnover. Check
That team won the title. Check

I even took it one step further and showed that an additional 4 players were traded during the season.

Now, because you were wrong (as usual) and had another one of your excuses blown all to hell, you want to move the goalposts and say they could only win a certain number of games?!?

Bullshit. That fucktardery won't fly here. It never has and it never will. You were proven wrong and I would suggest that you man up, admit it and stop behaving like a 14 year old. We have an age limit on the Hoop.

I totally admit- you did find a situation where there was a rookie head coach that lead a team with 50% turnover to the title. Yes- you were very right in that criteria.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Over half the roster was changed from the previous season idiot. Oh, and the player who led them to the title was a rookie with zero playoff experience and they had a rookie head coach who also had zero playoff experience.

hey I am the guy that has been saying that talent matters a lot more than playoff experience- I dont think playoff experience means much of anything to be honest. I think you get to the playoffs because you are good- not because you have been there before- your preaching to the choir there.

IF playoff experience accounted for anything the Cavs after JAmes wouldnt have gone on a 24 game losing streak- all those guys had playoff experience.....instead they sucked horribly....

ill take a talented guy over a guy with playoff experience any day any time

 

[WiggyRuss]

Over half the roster was changed from the previous season idiot. Oh, and the player who led them to the title was a rookie with zero playoff experience and they had a rookie head coach who also had zero playoff experience.

have to say though dude- if your being fair that post in quoted of yours in 124 that you yourself said and said you didnt think the Cavs would win this year because they dont have continuity is pretty much the same exact thing I have been saying in about half my posts....

 

[trojanfan12]

this cats' posts are a complete spin cycle. maybe he simply doesn't wanna get shamed/clowned if the Cavs don't win the title...

btw agree with the "win now" thing. if not now, when? it ain't like LeBron's gonna get any younger...or appreciably better...

Waaaay the fuck to late for that. If the Cavs don't win the title, Wiggy's gonna get skewered. I predict that he will either disappear for at least 2 months the instant the Cavs fall short (assuming they do) or he will have an epic meltdown that results in his getting banned.

 

[bksballer89]

have to say though dude- if your being fair that post in quoted of yours in 124 that you yourself said and said you didnt think the Cavs would win this year because they dont have continuity is pretty much the same exact thing I have been saying in about half my posts....

Just because TF said that doesn't mean it isn't championship or bust for Cleveland.

If you can't handle high expectations, maybe the Cavs should not have gone after Lebron James

 

[trojanfan12]

hey I am the guy that has been saying that talent matters a lot more than playoff experience- I dont think playoff experience means much of anything to be honest. I think you get to the playoffs because you are good- not because you have been there before- your preaching to the choir there.

IF playoff experience accounted for anything the Cavs after JAmes wouldnt have gone on a 24 game losing streak- all those guys had playoff experience.....instead they sucked horribly....

ill take a talented guy over a guy with playoff experience any day any time

So the Cavs aren't talented now? Or are you just trying to change the subject again?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Waaaay the fuck to late for that. If the Cavs don't win the title, Wiggy's gonna get skewered. I predict that he will either disappear for at least 2 months the instant the Cavs fall short (assuming they do) or he will have an epic meltdown that results in his getting banned.

Thats fine if i get skewered...i mean, how can you say that when you yourself had this post

Just because TF said that doesn't mean it isn't championship or bust for Cleveland.

If you can't handle high expectations, maybe the Cavs should not have gone after Lebron James

you guys can skewer me all you want if the Cavs dont win it all- if they get to the Finals i will be ecstatic, do you know the last Cleveland team to make a championship even was the Cavs in 07?--- the Indians were one game from the WS in 07, but lost---- and before that the Indians in 97 and 95 made the world series---- THATS IT in my lifetime

My firm even has really good season tickets- but theres a better chance i grow an arm out of my ass than i get to use thoughs....ill have to pony up a pretty penny if i want to go to any games thats for sure....win or lose, id probably just get real real drunk downtown...

I cant imagine if they did win though...it wouldnt be like if the Browns won....the city would probably burn to the ground if the Browns won a super bowl......but it would be pretty crazy



listen to this- and this is Gods honest truth- i listen to talk radio on my 30 minute ride to and from class usually- sports

and i am not joking- there is BY FAR more talk and callers about the Browns QB situation than the Cavs....

YES in FEBRUARY- there is browns QB talk...i am not joking- more so than LBJ andt he CAVS

it really really makes me physically ill....i hate it somuch

 

[WiggyRuss]

So the Cavs aren't talented now? Or are you just trying to change the subject again?

the Cavs are super talented- but like you yourself said- they dont have the continuity yet- and I think the same exact thing you wrote- if they stay together a few years- which they will -they could do great things and win multiple titles- but like you said Trojan, it might be asking a bit much to do it in year 1- we shall see....

 

[trojanfan12]

have to say though dude- if your being fair that post in quoted of yours in 124 that you yourself said and said you didnt think the Cavs would win this year because they dont have continuity is pretty much the same exact thing I have been saying in about half my posts....

Yes, I have said that I don't think they'll win it. You can ask any Heat fan on here, I also said that the Heat wouldn't win the title in their first season either.

However, that did not change the fact that it was title or bust for the Heat, just as it doesn't change the fact that it's title or bust for the Cavs. Lebron has put the target on the Cavs back, just like he did the Heat.

 

[trojanfan12]

the Cavs are super talented- but like you yourself said- they dont have the continuity yet- and I think the same exact thing you wrote- if they stay together a few years- which they will -they could do great things and win multiple titles- but like you said Trojan, it might be asking a bit much to do it in year 1- we shall see....

So you were just trying to change the subject again. Thought so.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yes, I have said that I don't think they'll win it. You can ask any Heat fan on here, I also said that the Heat wouldn't win the title in their first season either.

However, that did not change the fact that it was title or bust for the Heat, just as it doesn't change the fact that it's title or bust for the Cavs. Lebron has put the target on the Cavs back, just like he did the Heat.

so wait a minute...you dont think the Cavs will win it all- i have said multiple times- and have not wavered at all- that I dont think they will win it all...but I am going to get "skewered" if they dont win it all?