Perk to Cleveland

[gordontrue]

I don't think you know what championship or bust means either. Saying they are championship or bust and saying they will bust, isn't calling them a pretender. It's saying you don't think they'll win the championship. No one one here is saying that the Cavs aren't contenders. In fact, saying that it's championship or bust for them is saying that they are contenders.

You should know this from when you were a Heat fan from 2010-2014.

Yes I understand that that is the tune being sung over the last couple of weeks.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

This is all semantics over what "championship or bust" means.

Are the Cavs gunning for a title this year? Yes. Should they be satisfied with anything less this season? No.


BUT... Is the season a complete failure if they don't win the title? Absolutely not. Especially since this is year #1. I say the same thing about the Heat the first year with LeBron. They were gunning for the title and they were bitterly disappointed when they failed to do that. But in my opinion that season was a success, once the end of the season came and you looked back on it. They failed to reach their end goal but they accomplished a hell of a lot on the way.




Also... I agree with Wiggy that people are changing their tune on the Cavs back and forth. If you really hate the Cavs of course you have to build up the "championship or bust" theme. That way you can crucify them if they don't... and don't have to give much credit if they do.

Fine. Just don't fall victim to the temptation to criticize them when they're struggling and talk about how they clearly aren't a title contender.

Either have the balls to declare them a pretender and stick with it... or keep beating the "championship or bust" drum. You can't have that cake and eat it too.

When you are named LeBron James and you position yourself to play on whatever team you want every single season with hand picked players, then every season for him that doesn't end with a championship has to be considered a bust.

Wiggy is trying to say that bust can only mean end, which it doesn't.
There is no reason to think that next years Cavs won't be back in a similar situation next season if James is healthy.

The one thing I don't understand is his long term optimistic outlook.
The entire dynamics of the league might change in the summer of '16, and James is now on the plus side of 30 with over 40K minutes played. I think decline is more expected than improvement at this stage of his carreer.

 

[WiggyRuss]

hold up, you think Arison is cheap? lol wait'll Turnip/Flauge/punchline sees THIS post...

I dont think he as cheap as LeBron thought he was cheap- which of course is much more important...

 

[WiggyRuss]

When you are named LeBron James and you position yourself to play on whatever team you want every single season with hand picked players, then every season for him that doesn't end with a championship has to be considered a bust.

Wiggy is trying to say that bust can only mean end, which it doesn't.
There is no reason to think that next years Cavs won't be back in a similar situation next season if James is healthy.

The one thing I don't understand is his long term optimistic outlook.
The entire dynamics of the league might change in the summer of '16, and James is now on the plus side of 30 with over 40K minutes played. I think decline is more expected than improvement at this stage of his carreer.

LOL....tell that to your buddy bskballer who thinks the Heat are gonna have a resurgence in 2016 when Dwayne Wade gets his knee replaced with a bionic joint capable of turning him into inspector fucking gadget lol

LeBron as at LEAST 3 more super elite years after this one....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I dont think he as cheap as LeBron thought he was cheap- which of course is much more important...

Total nonsense.
Every single statement that James put out there or paid someone to write was total spin cycle in regard to his FA last summer.
He made a business decision because Gilbert handed him the keys to the kingdom combined with Nike needing a new marketing campaign.

Also, going back to your tradeable asset post earlier, that is also nonsense.
The Cavs only ended up with those pieces because of how poor the product was on the court combined with great fortune from random lotto balls. There was no planning involved.

On the other hand, Riley had a well thought out plan that included having his rosters full of expiring contracts.
Hence, he didn't need tradeable assets or anything else.

 

[wildturkey]

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

LOL....tell that to your buddy bskballer who thinks the Heat are gonna have a resurgence in 2016 when Dwayne Wade gets his knee replaced with a bionic joint capable of turning him into inspector fucking gadget lol

LeBron as at LEAST 3 more super elite years after this one....

Wade's contract only goes through next season.
So, once again, what are you talking about?

As far as James, I'm not going to blindly state how many elite years he has left, but I will predict that in 3 years he's no longer perceived as the best player in the league.

He will never, ever, have a better 4 consecutive seasons then he did in Miami.

 

[Black Adam]

Wade's contract only goes through next season.
So, once again, what are you talking about?

As far as James, I'm not going to blindly state how many elite years he has left, but I will predict that in 3 years he's no longer perceived as the best player in the league.

He will never, ever, have a better 4 consecutive seasons then he did in Miami.

truth's a hard thing to argue with. as i said in another thread at what point do you think LeBron's skills start to decline? will he have the smarts to compensate for his loss of physical skills? and does anyone somehow think LeBron's somehow immune to the effects of aging...?

just puttin' that out there...

none of the 3 points above are a given. just sayin'...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Wiggy still chooses to believe that LeBron was upset over the Miller amnesty, hence these crazy comments.
Arison is anything but cheap.
Not tying up 14-15M in Mike Miller last season doesn't make you cheap, it makes you smart.
In year 1 of Heat Big 3 Miller was supposed to be our 3 pt threat ( instead he was injured).
Last season Riley had added Battier, Lewis, still had James Jones and some other guy who is a pretty fair shooter named Ray Allen.

you guys coulda used the mid level and didnt- hey im just going by what LeBron has said....the salary of all those guys together equals what carlos boozer tips his mailman

 

[WiggyRuss]

truth's a hard thing to argue with. as i said in another thread at what point do you think LeBron's skills start to decline? will he have the smarts to compensate for his loss of physical skills? and does anyone somehow think LeBron's somehow immune to the effects of aging...?

just puttin' that out there...

none of the 3 points above are a given. just sayin'...

start to decline? I think ALREADY in some ways they have started- I mean- he is definitely not the same high flyer he was when he was 23- but like u said- guys compensate- especially the greats...

Kobe went to the elbows and developed the best footwork in the game. With LeBrons size and ability I think he probably naturally keeps developing into a small ball 4 and works more inthe post.....unlike Wade LeBron can actually shoot from the outside too...its one of the reasons why Wade wont have the same career end game that LeBron will have and Kobe did have before his slew of injuries....

but i think LeBron has 2-3 more years after this one where he still holds the belt....the thing is- nobody is going to give davis or durant the belt if they dont win anything and lebron isstill winning....so its possible its longer- but id say at the LEAST its 2 seasons after this one....after that it just depends...thats my guess anyway...who really knows....

I think we can all PROBABLy agree that itll either be Durant or Davis that take it away from LeBron....at one time id say durant,but if he doesnt win anything thats gonna be tough.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Wade's contract only goes through next season.
So, once again, what are you talking about?

As far as James, I'm not going to blindly state how many elite years he has left, but I will predict that in 3 years he's no longer perceived as the best player in the league.

He will never, ever, have a better 4 consecutive seasons then he did in Miami.

just for reference what LBJs gripes were

• They amnestied Mike Miller.
• Instead of using a draft pick to upgrade their roster, they used it as a sweetener to unload Joel Anthony’s contract.
• They didn’t use the mid-level exception, their primary tool for adding another rotation-caliber player.

Miami has allowed its roster to stagnate and age, creating a lack of depth really showed in the Finals.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He will never, ever, have a better 4 consecutive seasons then he did in Miami.[/QUOTE]

what is everyones ever lasting memory of MJ?

fade-away- at the buzzer winner, lil push off from Russell....it happened well into his 30's.

LeBron's best moment is still ahead of him- and when he goes into Springfield itll be with a C on his hat.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Wade's contract only goes through next season.
So, once again, what are you talking about?

As far as James, I'm not going to blindly state how many elite years he has left, but I will predict that in 3 years he's no longer perceived as the best player in the league.

He will never, ever, have a better 4 consecutive seasons then he did in Miami.

u think Wade is gonna retire? I see a Kobe situation with him in Miami- they wont let him go anywhere else as they want him to retire in a Heat uniform- but his play does not warrant his pay.....now they wont give him 24 like the Lakers did Kobe (shit- id still give Kobe at least 10 if hes healthy to play shooting guard 25 a night and take my game winners and scare the shit outta the other guys on the other team AND his ownteam)...maybe they give him 12....

say Wade is at 12, Bosh isat his crazy 25 and Dragic gets his 5 year 100M fucking smorgasbord....thats 57 with those 3 players....and not one of those guys will be a top 10 and probably barely top 20.....add that to having to pay Whiteside 10M a year (at least) after next year....that has yah at 67......

Riley should give it another year then just trade it all away and go into the lotto try and get the next Wade instead of trying to keep Granny on life support

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think LeBron has 2-3 years as being the best in the league- and probably 2-3 years after that as a top 5 guy.....hes a physical freak which helps. Playing with Kyrie should help too- since Kyrie is signed long term and is only going to get improve upon his game- which is a scary proposition...he wont hit the height of his prime for another couple seasons at least....he will help keep LeBron young- which is one of the reasons he came to Cleveland....Love and Kyrie at 26 and 22 will keep LEbron younga lot longer than if he had to put an aging Wade and Bosh on his back

just imagine if LeBron stayed what kind of an absolute mess hed be carrying on his back right now instead of winning 16 of his last 18- and HE got to sit out 2 weeks and rest instead of doing the dirty work while Wade sat out 30+ games like last year.....only to watch Wade run out of gas when it mattered most

LeBron definitely added some time on his prime by getting out of miami when he did

 

[Flauge]

If LeBron thinks Arison is cheap, then he is stupid. Arison handed the guy about 80 million dollars. Paying 15 million for one year of Mike Miller would have been stupid. I love Mike Miller.. guy was cold blooded.. hit a 3 in the finals without a shoe. He showed up most when Miami needed him. But he was always injured. It's not like Mike Miller would have prevented that epic Spurs ass kicking we took in the Finals last year.

 

[Flauge]

I give Lebron 3 years at the top. He will be 33. Guys like Anthony Davis are coming for that title of 'best player on the planet.' Anthony Davis is early 20s.. It won't be long. Hell, Lebron had a hell of a run, but he better start collecting those titles, because to be considered anywhere in the same breath as Jordan, you better be holding up at least 5.

 

[Black Adam]

I give Lebron 3 years at the top. He will be 33. Guys like Anthony Davis are coming for that title of 'best player on the planet.' Anthony Davis is early 20s.. It won't be long. Hell, Lebron had a hell of a run, but he better start collecting those titles, because to be considered anywhere in the same breath as Jordan, you better be holding up at least 5.

i hear ya, Flauge. and imo might get 1 or 2 in the time you allotted. i'm not seeing 3 happen...

 

[trojanfan12]

I give Lebron 3 years at the top. He will be 33. Guys like Anthony Davis are coming for that title of 'best player on the planet.' Anthony Davis is early 20s.. It won't be long. Hell, Lebron had a hell of a run, but he better start collecting those titles, because to be considered anywhere in the same breath as Jordan, you better be holding up at least 5.

i hear ya, Flauge. and imo might get 1 or 2 in the time you allotted. i'm not seeing 3 happen...

^^^These^^^

This is why Lebron demanded all of the roster moves that he did when he came to Cleveland and why it's championship or bust for the Cavs. As Flauge points out, in 3 years, Lebron will be 33. He's looking at becoming Kobe circa 2009 and beyond. Hopefully, for him, he won't start having the injuries like Kobe has, but the decline of his skills will become more and more obvious each season, he will no longer be the best in the game and each successive season, he will move a little farther down the list of top players in the league.

He'll still be a great player, just like Kobe was before the injuries started, but he'll find that he won't be able to put his team on his back anymore like he used to and players that he used to dominate will start holding their own, while players that were closer to his level will start beating him.

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL....tell that to your buddy bskballer who thinks the Heat are gonna have a resurgence in 2016 when Dwayne Wade gets his knee replaced with a bionic joint capable of turning him into inspector fucking gadget lol

LeBron as at LEAST 3 more super elite years after this one....

There's no reason that the Heat can't have a resurgence in 2016. D-Wade obviously isn't going to be THAT D-Wade ever again, but the Heat will have cap space and if they can add a top FA and Whiteside continues to play well and improve, they can be back in the thick of things. D-Wade won't have to carry as much of load, so he could probably drop to about 25-30 minutes a game and still be very effective.

 

[lakersrule]

Do Heat fans consider 2011 a bust? I remember Heat fans celebrating winning 14 playoff games.