Pacioretty gets three games

[elocomotive]

Puck handlers get hit. FACT. Pussification of the sport I tell ya. Too bad.

:brokenrecord:

There have been roughly 3,500 penalties doled out since the start of the regular season. A total of 8 suspensions and 8 fines to date. That is 0.45% of all penalties that result in some kind of discipline. Roughly 1 in 200. To say nothing for the 10s of thousands of clean hits that have taken place where no penalty is called.

With a faster and harder hitting league, I don't think there is anything wrong with taking action to discourage and punish the most dangerous types of hits out there - specifically boarding and shots to the head. You aren't a macho guy because you shove someone's face into the boards from behind - that IS being a pussy.

For the Pacioretty hit, I could see it either way. The trouble with the ruling is not Shanahan. The rule is ridiculously specific, and what Shanahan is trying to do is use the "intent" of the rule to apply it to hits that the actual "rule" may not apply to. The NHL needs to change the rule. In general, they are a poor rulemaking body (see: trapezoid, head shot rule, diving penalty, etc.) and it makes the job of their refs and their discipline czar extremely difficult.

 

[SLY]

There are "hits to the head", and then there are hits to the head. I still haven't seen this hit, so I shouldn't be commenting. But these humans make abnormal amounts of money. Robots, humans, whatever... They're not getting paid to go roll around in a field of cotton candy. Again, this is hockey. The roughest of sports (outside of perhaps Rugby).

 

[SLY]

:brokenrecord:

There have been roughly 3,500 penalties doled out since the start of the regular season. A total of 8 suspensions and 8 fines to date. That is 0.45% of all penalties that result in some kind of discipline. Roughly 1 in 200. To say nothing for the 10s of thousands of clean hits that have taken place where no penalty is called.

With a faster and harder hitting league, I don't think there is anything wrong with taking action to discourage and punish the most dangerous types of hits out there - specifically boarding and shots to the head. You aren't a macho guy because you shove someone's face into the boards from behind - that IS being a pussy.

For the Pacioretty hit, I could see it either way. The trouble with the ruling is not Shanahan. The rule is ridiculously specific, and what Shanahan is trying to do is use the "intent" of the rule to apply it to hits that the actual "rule" may not apply to. The NHL needs to change the rule. In general, they are a poor rulemaking body (see: trapezoid, head shot rule, diving penalty, etc.) and it makes the job of their refs and their discipline czar extremely difficult.

I agree 100%. So take that broken record and shove it up yer ass. There are big hits and cheap shots.

 

[evolver115]

I agree 100%. So take that broken record and shove it up yer ass. There are big hits and cheap shots.

Patches hit wasn't a cheap shot. It is just that his point of contact was Kris Letang's face. Max is not a dirty player in the vein of an Avery or Cooke. He just made too much of his initial contact to the head on the play.

You cannot do that anymore in the NHL.

 

[SLY]

Patches hit wasn't a cheap shot. It is just that his point of contact was Kris Letang's face. Max is not a dirty player in the vein of an Avery or Cooke. He just made too much of his initial contact to the head on the play.

You cannot do that anymore in the NHL.

Like I said, I havent even seen the hit yet.

 

[SLY]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[elocomotive]

There are "hits to the head", and then there are hits to the head. I still haven't seen this hit, so I shouldn't be commenting. But these humans make abnormal amounts of money. Robots, humans, whatever... They're not getting paid to go roll around in a field of cotton candy. Again, this is hockey. The roughest of sports (outside of perhaps Rugby).

Well, I guess if your comments are going to be the same no matter what you see, then it doesn't really matter if you saw it or not.

Again, this IS hockey. And without those tiny percentages of dangerous/terrible hits, it will still be an insanely physical, hard-hitting, rough, dangerous sport.

 

[SLY]

I just saw Shannys explanation. He asks does the fact that Letang is taking a shot change the place of impact for Pacioretty's hit? Of course it does!!! Look at how bent over Letang is. You'd think Pacioretty was fucking Chara heh

They really need to just change the wording of rules, this is ridiculous.

 

[SLY]

Pac is 6'2'', and Letang is 6'0''. Pacioretty didnt even move in an upward motion or leave his feet and his shoulder was square even with Letangs line of sight... These explanations are hilarious.

 

[elocomotive]

They really need to just change the wording of rules, this is ridiculous.

I agree. Clean it up - no shots to the head makes it easier to judge/officiate. Wow, we totally agree on this one.

 

[SLY]

I agree. Clean it up - no shots to the head makes it easier to judge/officiate. Wow, we totally agree on this one.

You cant do that though... Its a lose-lose situation. There is always going to be accidental hits to the head. You're gonna tell me every one should be suspended? That would be ridiculous.

 

[SLY]

Everyone in the league isnt the same height.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Like my mom told me be careful what you ask for. I've seen some calls I don't understand but warned that Shanaban might take it too far.

There is no way everyone will be happy with the system (esp if it's a play involving your team) but some of these calls have been curious. It's going to be interesting as we move closer to the playoffs.

 

[evolver115]

Like my mom told me be careful what you ask for. I've seen some calls I don't understand but warned that Shanaban might take it too far.

There is no way everyone will be happy with the system (esp if it's a play involving your team) but some of these calls have been curious. It's going to be interesting as we move closer to the playoffs.

Shanny is just as bad as Colie, IMO. I don't wish for anything, cause what I wish for isn't going to happen. So, as a fan, all you can do is accept the inconsistency of it all, and move on.

 

[pixburgher66]

Letang's out tonight...may be more injured than previously thought. Oi vey.

 

[Dacks]

I think both Campoli and Letang put themselves in a vulnerable position. I certainly think there was enough of a lean by Letang to make his head more of a target than it would have been. And Shanahan's quotes today seem to be opposite of some of the ones he said for Malone.

If you are going to say the onus “was on Pacioretty to make sure he didn’t make Letang’s head the principal point of contact” and state that even if Letang leaning into his shot changed the angle “it is still his reponsibility to make principal contact through the core of Letang’s body”
in this case, I do not see how he could say the somewhat opposite in the other case.

Again, how is it a blindside hit if Letang looked at Pacioretty well before the hit? Shanahan doesn't even term the hit a blindside one he just calls it an illegal hit to the head. Just like Malone's was. To me if you suspend one of the hitters you have to suspend the other. And vice versa.

But I guess the wheel didnt land there.

Let's put the rule up again, seeing as how it's changed a few times and there still seems to be confusion:

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

First of all, the "blindside" aspect of this rule was soooo last year. Doesn't matter where the hit comes from. What matters is whether or not the head was targeted and the principal point of contact. In the hit on Letang, it looks like it was. ("Targeted" is hard to prove, but it definitely was the principal point of contact.)

The second part I bolded because it's what differentiates Malone's hit from Pacioretty's hit. According to Shanahan, both players put themselves in a vulnerable position. In Malone's case, the player he hit changes his head position at the last second - Malone couldn't be reasonable expected to change his hit at that point. On the other hand, Letang's head follows a pretty constant trajectory (in Shanny's video they highlight this aspect) and Pacioretty had plenty of time to make sure he didn't principally hit the head.

Shanahan can only work with the rules he's given. Jeff's issues - the pussification of the league - doesn't really come into play. With the rule written as it is above, I can understand the distinction Shanahan is making between the two hits.

Applying logic =/= wheel of justice. We might disagree with the rule, or what actually happened, or even the logic, but at least there's a thought-out argument there.

 

[Comeds]

Let's put the rule up again, seeing as how it's changed a few times and there still seems to be confusion:



First of all, the "blindside" aspect of this rule was soooo last year. Doesn't matter where the hit comes from. What matters is whether or not the head was targeted and the principal point of contact. In the hit on Letang, it looks like it was. ("Targeted" is hard to prove, but it definitely was the principal point of contact.)

The second part I bolded because it's what differentiates Malone's hit from Pacioretty's hit. According to Shanahan, both players put themselves in a vulnerable position. In Malone's case, the player he hit changes his head position at the last second - Malone couldn't be reasonable expected to change his hit at that point. On the other hand, Letang's head follows a pretty constant trajectory (in Shanny's video they highlight this aspect) and Pacioretty had plenty of time to make sure he didn't principally hit the head.

Shanahan can only work with the rules he's given. Jeff's issues - the pussification of the league - doesn't really come into play. With the rule written as it is above, I can understand the distinction Shanahan is making between the two hits.

Applying logic =/= wheel of justice. We might disagree with the rule, or what actually happened, or even the logic, but at least there's a thought-out argument there.

First of all I mention the blindside aspect only because others keep stating it was. It doesn't matter and it wasn't.

Second of all after watching the plays over numerous times I still see more similarities there than differences and I still think Shanahan make contradicting statements when I compare the two hits and his rationale. The timing and the head leans and targets are pretty similar. Shanahan just got one of the reviews wrong, take your pick.
The wheel keeps on rolling.

Extrapolating the recent ruling a player can skate hard to the net hunched over with his head down and the defense cannot do anything.

 

[Dacks]

First of all I mention the blindside aspect only because others keep stating it was. It doesn't matter and it wasn't.

Second of all after watching the plays over numerous times I still see more similarities there than differences and I still think Shanahan make contradicting statements when I compare the two hits and his rationale. The timing and the head leans and targets are pretty similar. Shanahan just got one of the reviews wrong, take your pick.
The wheel keeps on rolling.

Extrapolating the recent ruling a player can skate hard to the net hunched over with his head down and the defense cannot do anything.

Or they can try to play the body?

Wheel of justice implies randomly choosing who gets suspended and for how long. Shanahan clearly lays out his logic. You're free to disagree on his assessment, but it's definitely not random.

I mean, everyone hated Campbell because he never really explained why some things merited suspension and others didn't. Now we have Shanahan trying to explain every detail of his decisions, and he still gets shit on. We're all going to disagree with his calls once in a while, as we do with refs every game, but I think you're nuts if you can't see the improvement over Campbell.

 

[Comeds]

Or they can try to play the body?

Wheel of justice implies randomly choosing who gets suspended and for how long. Shanahan clearly lays out his logic. You're free to disagree on his assessment, but it's definitely not random.

I mean, everyone hated Campbell because he never really explained why some things merited suspension and others didn't. Now we have Shanahan trying to explain every detail of his decisions, and he still gets shit on. We're all going to disagree with his calls once in a while, as we do with refs every game, but I think you're nuts if you can't see the improvement over Campbell.

Playing the body can be really hard to do if a players is skating with his head down where the head may be the most forward part of the players body, but I did mean that part in my last post in an exaggerative way. Though not by much.

I think one of his calls contradicts the other, you're free todisagree with me on that, but therefore I think its pretty random so far.

Two months in is very little to determine if Shanahan will be better than Cambell, I doubt he will be worse but so far I have many doubts he will be better.

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

First of all I mention the blindside aspect only because others keep stating it was. It doesn't matter and it wasn't.

Second of all after watching the plays over numerous times I still see more similarities there than differences and I still think Shanahan make contradicting statements when I compare the two hits and his rationale. The timing and the head leans and targets are pretty similar. Shanahan just got one of the reviews wrong, take your pick.
The wheel keeps on rolling.

Extrapolating the recent ruling a player can skate hard to the net hunched over with his head down and the defense cannot do anything.

He was skating directly towards the net. This is hockey, there is no such thing as a blind side in this situation.