OFFICIAL OFF SEASON THREAD ( 2017 )

[DT LUNA]

Being devils advocate here.....Odor goes and we put Profar at 2nd.

Odor's value has got to be pretty high.

Boy you are being a advocate but you have a point. Lot of bombs to give up but Odor has a down side too.

 

[donaldson79]

Lot of bombs to give up but Odor has a down side too.

Yeah, like a glove and "decision making capabilities." ha ha ha

But seriously, our D and base running gets considerably better, and we need both.

Odor will always have more pop. Pretty damn good avg too. But honestly, I don't think Odor is a year-n-out a 30 HR guy. And with Profar, I think if the Rangers give him a permanent spot, he'll thrive.

Don't think the gap between the two (offensively) is as great as some may think.

 

[Kelleyman]

Yeah, like a glove and "decision making capabilities." ha ha ha

But seriously, our D and base running gets considerably better, and we need both.

Odor will always have more pop. Pretty damn good avg too. But honestly, I don't think Odor is a year-n-out a 30 HR guy. And with Profar, I think if the Rangers give him a permanent spot, he'll thrive.

Don't think the gap between the two (offensively) is as great as some may think.

The pop in Odor bat is so good although his eye for pitches and judgement of the situation needs maturing. Always thought Profar had the it factor and very uncertain if the layoff and long season was a factor in Profar dropoff. Of course the musical chairs version of his career has not helped. Sentimentally i would like to keep him but our SP need is so much that may not be possible. What Odor would fetch is a very interesting question but i have to think Profar is odd man out esp after saying he wants to play SS

 

[saddles]

Being devils advocate here.....Odor goes and we put Profar at 2nd.

Odor's value has got to be pretty high.

I wouldn't be surprised if that happens.

 

[saddles]

Rangers offseason issues: The $11 million question about Derek Holland | SportsDay

Evan does a pretty good job of outlining the possibilities of Holland's future and given his past anti-Holland bias that is an accomplishment for Evan. The one thing he fails to mention is that Derek did manage to hit 95 on the radar gun in September. That is something Holland hadn't done in quite awhile.

And given the track record, it's fair to wonder if the shoulder injury is now a chronic condition that will make velo slip even more. Some guys make the adjustment and become more control-oriented, offspeed artists and thrive in a new stage of their career. But it comes only with self-realization. Holland seems to have fought that -- not that unusual -- to this point.


So, what do you about his $11 million option with no assurances he can or will make the change?

My approach: I'd try to keep him, but try to negotiate a lower base salary with incentives that would allow him the possibility, if he pitches 180 innings, to make at least what the option called for. If he gets to 200, then by Jove, he should probably have a way to make even more.

The risk in all this is that Holland would head to free agency, take a one-year deal elsewhere, buy into making a fundamental change and experience a rebirth. Then again, he may just go somewhere else and flop, too.

The Rangers have invested a decade into Holland's development and care.

At a critical moment in his career, the only organization he has known may be the safest and best place for him to attempt to make the changes he will need to remake himself as a pitcher.

 

[saddles]

Rangers must improve how they develop their own starting pitchers | SportsDay

Martin Perez was the last starter the Rangers developed who has made 30 starts in a season for the club. Perez broke into the majors in 2012. He reached 30 starts in a season for the first time this year. And the Rangers still didn't have enough confidence in him to use him in any of their three AL Division Series games.

You can't go five seasons between developing starters and continue to contend long-term. The price of acquiring pitching is too high in terms of both prospects and dollars.


General manager Jon Daniels indicated the Rangers will do some internal analysis this winter to see what can be improved. This won't yield them a pitcher for the 2017 season, but doing some retooling here may help them extend the current "window of opportunity" much longer. This must become the preeminent data collection project of the offseason. The project should include scouting, development and how pitchers are valued.

Starting pitching is the currency of the game. If you hoard it, you've got a bright future. If you are willing to trade it, you can fix other pressing issues. The Rangers have used starting pitching over the last two years to acquire big-time contributors such as Cole Hamels (starters Jake Thompson, Jerad Eickhoff and Alec Asher were three of the six players sent to Philadelphia), Jonathan Lucroy (Luis Ortiz) and Carlos Beltran (Dillon Tate)...

Of more concern should be what the Rangers saw in the playoffs. They see Kyle Hendricks making starts for the Cubs and saw Tanner Roark start for Washington. They traded both in deals that brought no tangible return whatsoever.


There is probably some draft rehash to be done, too. In particular, the Rangers may want to look back at 2010 and their process then. They had five picks in the top 50, starting with No. 15. They took outfielder Jake Skole, a major bust, at 15, catcher Kellin Deglan at 22, right-hander Luke Jackson at 45 and third baseman Mike Olt at 49.

In between the pick of Skole and the pick of Jackson, the following pitchers were snapped up: Mike Foltynewicz (19), Aaron Sanchez (34), Taijuan Walker (43) and, perhaps most significantly, Mansfield Legacy's Noah Syndergaard (38).

 

[scotsman1948]

Gallo is a "wish come true" that hasn't. He has got to show he can hit mlb pitching before he gets serious consideration again.

Another Mike Olt

 

[DT LUNA]

Another Mike Olt

Yes he is. Terrible to have such talent and can't find it. Maybe he will but the clock is ticking.

 

[donaldson79]

Another Mike Olt

Wouldn't go quite that far just yet.

 

[donaldson79]

Always thought Profar had the it factor and very uncertain if the layoff and long season was a factor in Profar dropoff. Of course the musical chairs version of his career has not helped. Sentimentally i would like to keep him but our SP need is so much that may not be possible. What Odor would fetch is a very interesting question but i have to think Profar is odd man out esp after saying he wants to play SS

Good way to phrase it, "Profar has the it factor." I agree with you 100%.

I remember Profar saying he wants to play SS, and I understand where he's coming from. But I also think if we approach him with a solid spot, on a solid team, with a solid organization, he'll relish in the opportunity.

Wonder what a pkg of Odor/Dyson and a minor leaguer - not a pitcher - brings back? Or a Odor/Choo, minor leaguer brings?

 

[DT LUNA]

Good way to phrase it, "Profar has the it factor." I agree with you 100%.

I remember Profar saying he wants to play SS, and I understand where he's coming from. But I also think if we approach him with a solid spot, on a solid team, with a solid organization, he'll relish in the opportunity.

Wonder what a pkg of Odor/Dyson and a minor leaguer - not a pitcher - brings back? Or a Odor/Choo, minor leaguer brings?

Like the Choo idea but his contract may kill it.

 

[donaldson79]

Like the Choo idea but his contract may kill it.

Naw.....we'll sooth the wound with some money. ha

 

[saddles]

Another Mike Olt

Either that or another Hank Blalock/Dean Palmer/Ian Kinsler/Chris Davis type. In other words we have hit on a lot of guys and missed on a few. It is way too early in my estimation to say he is another Mike Olt.

In AAA this year Gallo had an OPS 160 points higher than Mike Olt did at AAA and Mike was 2 years older than Joey was at that same level.

 

[Kelleyman]

Either that or another Hank Blalock/Dean Palmer/Ian Kinsler/Chris Davis type. In other words we have hit on a lot of guys and missed on a few. It is way too early in my estimation to say he is another Mike Olt.

In AAA this year Gallo had an OPS 160 points higher than Mike Olt did at AAA and Mike was 2 years older than Joey was at that same level.

Yeah the OPS allows us to be patient. There is no way we don't see this out due to his low current value and huge upside. Best case scenario is he finds a new approach losing some holes in his swing and perhaps shortening up a bit. Does well in Venezuela. Has a good spring and is doing well if callup is needed. There is still a longshot in my mind he is starting 1B maybe batting 8th. I don't want to lose another Chris Davis

 

[Kelleyman]

Not trying to backtrack re Dutch but if like EG says we give Dutch a renogisted deal incentive laden that allows us to pay him live a #5 or #3 based upon performance. Maybe that is a hedge. I am not optimistic re velocity despite a couple of occasions he hit 95. I really think he will have to recreate himself but.....

 

[DT LUNA]

Not trying to backtrack re Dutch but if like EG says we give Dutch a renogisted deal incentive laden that allows us to pay him live a #5 or #3 based upon performance. Maybe that is a hedge. I am not optimistic re velocity despite a couple of occasions he hit 95. I really think he will have to recreate himself but.....

Pitching FA etc being what it is, I think we are foolish not to explore all avenues. Like you, not optimistic but wouldn't it be nice if he can get back to a #5

 

[DT LUNA]

If this board gets any slower we will be going backwards.

 

[saddles]

If this board gets any slower we will be going backwards.

I think the way the season ended left such a bad taste in some folks mouths that they are having a hard time discussing baseball right now. We will have to keep it going until they come back I guess. lol

 

[scotsman1948]

Yeah the OPS allows us to be patient. There is no way we don't see this out due to his low current value and huge upside. Best case scenario is he finds a new approach losing some holes in his swing and perhaps shortening up a bit. Does well in Venezuela. Has a good spring and is doing well if callup is needed. There is still a longshot in my mind he is starting 1B maybe batting 8th. I don't want to lose another Chris Davis

a very very longshot.

 

[Kelleyman]

I think this is a bit harsh perspective but sure some see it this way.