No rebuild- PC and Jody Allen

[flyerhawk]

Carroll-Wilson duo set for possible Seattle finale

The Seahawks' home finale Sunday could potentially be the last time Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson work together at Lumen Field, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

Well it certainly doesn't sound like this team is just going to retool in the offseason.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Carroll-Wilson duo set for possible Seattle finale

The Seahawks' home finale Sunday could potentially be the last time Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson work together at Lumen Field, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

Well it certainly doesn't sound like this team is just going to retool in the offseason.

I don't think we know what's going to happen yet. I take anything in the media with a grain of salt at this time and think the week after the season is over would be when any announcement from ownership would come. No telling what is going to happen. Pete could be let go. Pete and Schneider could be lets go, or something else which could be going with the status quo or making major changes in the roster.
I hear this is the worse draft for QB since 2013 where EJ Manuel was the only first round QB and Geno Smith was likely the best QB of the draft. Also hear 2023 draft looks might poor for QBs also. So bad time to be in need of a QB as a team would have to wait until 2024 to find a viable QB in the draft.
Keep the staff or replace them still leaves the roster in a difficult position to retool. Most of the ideas ( that don't involve trading RW) I've heard to retool revolve around Wagner being cut/traded for cap relief. IDK that is enough for a roster that needs OL, RBs and defense players at all positions and depth every where.
A lot of drama is happening and it keeps fans riveted for news on the situation.

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't think we know what's going to happen yet. I take anything in the media with a grain of salt at this time and think the week after the season is over would be when any announcement from ownership would come. No telling what is going to happen. Pete could be let go. Pete and Schneider could be lets go, or something else which could be going with the status quo or making major changes in the roster.
I hear this is the worse draft for QB since 2013 where EJ Manuel was the only first round QB and Geno Smith was likely the best QB of the draft. Also hear 2023 draft looks might poor for QBs also. So bad time to be in need of a QB as a team would have to wait until 2024 to find a viable QB in the draft.
Keep the staff or replace them still leaves the roster in a difficult position to retool. Most of the ideas ( that don't involve trading RW) I've heard to retool revolve around Wagner being cut/traded for cap relief. IDK that is enough for a roster that needs OL, RBs and defense players at all positions and depth every where.
A lot of drama is happening and it keeps fans riveted for news on the situation.

I just don't see a way forward for Pete and Russ at this point. And it would be crazy to choose Pete over Russ. If he were 61 years old, then maybe. But he has 1 or 2 years left at best. And that's assuming that you believe he isn't already past it, which I do.

IMO, the only real question should be whether we keep Schneider or not. I lean towards yes but that isn't a big deal either way for me.

 

[MrS]

if you dump carroll, schneider has to go too. they are two peas in a pod and equally culpable for wasting draft picks and making increasingly terrible trades every other year.

do you really trust schneider to use whatever picks we would potentially get for wilson?

 

[flyerhawk]

if you dump carroll, schneider has to go too. they are two peas in a pod and equally culpable for wasting draft picks and making increasingly terrible trades every other year.

do you really trust schneider to use whatever picks we would potentially get for wilson?

You want a complete reset. And when that fails you'll want another one in 2 years. And 2 years after that.

Schneider built the team that Pete wanted. I am willing to give him a chance to find a coach that he can work with. Because complete resets are almost ALWAYS very bad.

 

[uwdawgfan]

if you dump carroll, schneider has to go too. they are two peas in a pod and equally culpable for wasting draft picks and making increasingly terrible trades every other year.

do you really trust schneider to use whatever picks we would potentially get for wilson?

 

[MrS]

You want a complete reset. And when that fails you'll want another one in 2 years. And 2 years after that.

Schneider built the team that Pete wanted. I am willing to give him a chance to find a coach that he can work with. Because complete resets are almost ALWAYS very bad.

schneider is tainted by almost 10 years of bad drafting and bad trades, he has to go.

or we can pretend the GM had nothing to do with all the decisions that took place and pucker our anuses for more trade downs and wasted first round picks.

 

[uwdawgfan]

schneider is tainted by almost 10 years of bad drafting and bad trades, he has to go.

or we can pretend the GM had nothing to do with all the decisions that took place and pucker our anuses for more trade downs and wasted first round picks.

Can you imagine getting rid of Russ and letting Schneider get a hold of those picks? Germain Ifedi ring a bell? C.J. Prosise ? Rees Odhiambo etc...time for new blood in there. Clean house!!!!!

 

[flyerhawk]

schneider is tainted by almost 10 years of bad drafting and bad trades, he has to go.

or we can pretend the GM had nothing to do with all the decisions that took place and pucker our anuses for more trade downs and wasted first round picks.

Who are the GMs out there that you think have done better over the last 10 years?

 

[Anointed One]

We did Clean house with the Mariners 5 years ago and we have yet to make the postseason... Be careful what you wish for...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

We did Clean house with the Mariners 5 years ago and we have yet to make the postseason... Be careful what you wish for...

Anointed.... the Mariners are the worst run organization in sports history... no major sports organization in the US (NFL/MLB/NHL/NBA) has a longer playoff drought.

Cleaned house? We might as well have launched a nuclear warhead at the Mariners... our chance of getting some mutant steroid freak would've been greater than anything put on the field in the last 20 years.

 

[Anointed One]

Anointed.... the Mariners are the worst run organization in sports history... no major sports organization in the US (NFL/MLB/NHL/NBA) has a longer playoff drought.

Cleaned house? We might as well have launched a nuclear warhead at the Mariners... our chance of getting some mutant steroid freak would've been greater than anything put on the field in the last 20 years.

Point is, we cleaned house... No? We're going to be very good, IMO the next few years but we haven't make the postseason since we cleaned house...

 

[MrS]

Who are the GMs out there that you think have done better over the last 10 years?

the 2012 draft was their last good draft, that was almost 10 years ago now. if they threw darts at a board or went with kipers draft board they would have done better.

the patriots, chiefs, bucs, cardinals, colts, titans, even the niners have done a better job.

its not up to me as a fan to find the next GM or coach or QB, thats up to the owner. but as a fan, I can certainly tell when its time to move on and its now.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

the 2012 draft was their last good draft, that was almost 10 years ago now. if they threw darts at a board or went with kipers draft board they would have done better.

the patriots, chiefs, bucs, cardinals, colts, titans, even the niners have done a better job.

its not up to me as a fan to find the next GM or coach or QB, thats up to the owner. but as a fan, I can certainly tell when its time to move on and its now.

Uh, 2015 was pretty good... we got that guy named Frank who was pretty decent and netted us a 1st rounder back and some early picks after contributing... and that other guy named Tyler... 2017 wasn't bad as well... Carson and Griffin.. Carson IMO was a HOFer in the making, just couldn't stay healthy.

That said, I get what you're saying, the Seattle draft picks have been pretty underwhelming after 2013... Seattle was pretty irresponsible though in spending their draft capital. I loved the Percy Harvin trade (yah woops) and did like the prospect of the Jimmy Graham trade... Harvin completely busted, and what in the actual world of fuck was Carroll thinking trying to teach Graham to block? Eh whatever....

 

[flyerhawk]

the 2012 draft was their last good draft, that was almost 10 years ago now. if they threw darts at a board or went with kipers draft board they would have done better.

The 2012 draft was one of the greatest drafts in the last 40 years. If you expect to get 2 Hall of Famers and a couple of 10 year vets from each draft you will be perpetually disappointed.

the patriots, chiefs, bucs, cardinals, colts, titans, even the niners have done a better job.

its not up to me as a fan to find the next GM or coach or QB, thats up to the owner. but as a fan, I can certainly tell when its time to move on and its now.

Here are the Patriots drafts of the last 10 years...

DraftHistory.com

www.drafthistory.com

Who were their great picks?

The Colts had a great draft in 2018. But look at their drafts over the last 10 years and tell me what great picks they made?

The Bucs are a team built almost entirely of guys they brought in. They have 3 or 4 guys they have drafted in the last 10 years that were difference makers.

 

[seattlefan75]

The Mariners cleaned house 20 years ago and havent made the playoffs but I can argue what Jerry Dipoto did 5 years ago tanking has paid off a ton and they are in a great situation right now. It took the Astros nearly 5 years of tanking and now they have been winning tons of games with their core players. This is a debate for the mariners board.

Now for the Seahawks this is tricky obviously nobody in the organization is doing anything to where they choose a path where Russell Wilson leaves. I think if Russell Wilson leaves its because he wants out and I truly believe a big part of it is his camp (his wife) wants to play in a big market like New York or Miami. Pete Carroll or JS or anyone is down for any idea of Wilson leaving and having to go through a rebuild that I can also guarantee you.

 

[flyerhawk]

The Mariners cleaned house 20 years ago and havent made the playoffs but I can argue what Jerry Dipoto did 5 years ago tanking has paid off a ton and they are in a great situation right now. It took the Astros nearly 5 years of tanking and now they have been winning tons of games with their core players. This is a debate for the mariners board.

Baseball is set up differently because the CBA gives the teams 7 years of control on players. And baseball teams aren't nearly as dependent on pitchers as football teams are dependent on quarterbacks.

Now for the Seahawks this is tricky obviously nobody in the organization is doing anything to where they choose a path where Russell Wilson leaves. I think if Russell Wilson leaves its because he wants out and I truly believe a big part of it is his camp (his wife) wants to play in a big market like New York or Miami. Pete Carroll or JS or anyone is down for any idea of Wilson leaving and having to go through a rebuild that I can also guarantee you.

This will be the 1st year since 1996 that the Seahawks will wind up in last place of their division. If we get rid of Wilson, it won't be a one time event. I don't think most Hawks fans comprehend what it is like to be a cellar dweller every year. I'm surrounded by Jets and Giants fans and let me tell you, they are miserable. The Giants are about to clean house, again. The Jets just cleaned house last year and already looking at doing it again in the next year or 2.

We should be doing everything we can to keep Russ and work through the transition from our 71 year old coach.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

HOF QBs come along VERY rarely.... don't let Wilson walk (unless he absolutely wants to). Regardless, IF Wilson wants to stay in Seattle he will.... he has a no trade clause. I just wonder if Wilson wanting to leave would be because of Pete, in which case you let him go.

Look at where the Packers will be without Rodgers? Probably an 8-9 team. I don't think Jordan Love is the answer. It was a reach pick to begin with. And Packers fans love to say, "But Rodgers was a late 1st round pick!" Rodgers also had 1st overall talent, the 49ers could've selected him and nobody would've been surprised. And then he free fell because literally nobody else needed a QB (and arguably the Packers didn't either).

 

[MrS]

The 2012 draft was one of the greatest drafts in the last 40 years. If you expect to get 2 Hall of Famers and a couple of 10 year vets from each draft you will be perpetually disappointed.

they are living off that draft to this day

Here are the Patriots drafts of the last 10 years...

DraftHistory.com

www.drafthistory.com

Who were their great picks?

The Colts had a great draft in 2018. But look at their drafts over the last 10 years and tell me what great picks they made?

The Bucs are a team built almost entirely of guys they brought in. They have 3 or 4 guys they have drafted in the last 10 years that were difference makers.

being a GM is more than just drafting.

Uh, 2015 was pretty good... we got that guy named Frank who was pretty decent and netted us a 1st rounder back and some early picks after contributing... and that other guy named Tyler... 2017 wasn't bad as well... Carson and Griffin.. Carson IMO was a HOFer in the making, just couldn't stay healthy.

there have been decent players drafted in spots, but they never replaced the core. and the trade for frank clark netted us what? collier? that was another bad trade, they should have kept clark, we have not had a pass rush since.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

This will be the 1st year since 1996 that the Seahawks will wind up in last place of their division. If we get rid of Wilson, it won't be a one time event. I don't think most Hawks fans comprehend what it is like to be a cellar dweller every year. I'm surrounded by Jets and Giants fans and let me tell you, they are miserable. The Giants are about to clean house, again. The Jets just cleaned house last year and already looking at doing it again in the next year or 2.

We should be doing everything we can to keep Russ and work through the transition from our 71 year old coach.

I sure do remember being a basement team and while I have no desire to revisit those kind of years I feel it may be unavoidable given the quality of the roster. The media been pushing the idea that a new coach is the answer to turning things around, disregarding that most new hires at the position are failures in the same vein as most QBs being failures. Let me remind everyone of Jim Mora, Dennis Erickson and Tom Flores history with the Seahawks. Look at the records of coaches hired in the last 3 years in the league and it's not good.
As for his age ( which you like to mention repeatedly) well it's not much different then Bill Belichick or Bruce Arians ( less then a year I believe) and they are at the top and he's healthier then Andy Reid who is less then 7 years younger. This age thing is a bias that doesn't jive with those at the top who have the most success ( the three I just mentioned) . It's not his age really, it's that he doesn't have a wide open, pass crazy, type of offense. For some reason fans want to see pass, pass, pass and more passing which is why Andy Reid and Bruce Arians are lauded and Pete is described as over the hill. Pete is more in the vein of Bilichick who also likes the run to set up the pass.
Course Pete isn't going to last forever either, so a new hire at OC to eventually replace him would be prudent, but it needs to be someone special also. I would prefer that to letting Pete go. As for RW we'll have to see how it goes. One of the rumors are that it's John Schneider that wants to move RW and Pete has been blocking the idea. Food for thought and it fits with what RW and Pete have commented on.
If a full rebuild isn't happening then there is no point in trading RW. The idea that the Seahawks can remain competitive by trading him is a pipe dream. My feelings were that a full rebuild now would be easier now then if they wait and have another disastrous season which would just leave the team with that much less in trade value. For example if RW has another bad season, what happens to his trade value? However as I stated I'm not looking forward to losing seasons so I'll just roll with what ever is decided.