Nnamdi a Niner

[BINGO]

You can develop instincts, though. He hasn't had much experience running down the field with a receiver and then turning to play the ball. He can improve upon that.

Re: the post below the one I've quoted, the biggest problem with Culliver by far, IMO, is his ability to play the ball in the air. He frequently has pretty good coverage, but fails to make a play on the ball. If he can't improve on that, then he may never be more than a third or fourth guy. As for our search for CBs, though, that could also have something to do with Brown under contract for just one more season, Rogers slipping and probably not worth the contract after next year, and the general need for quality CBs in the league.

At 25, one should be at their prime by now. Not still trying to develop their instincts to play the position. Even if there was a miracle and got the "instincts" part situated, he still not a playmaker at the position. Not trying to look for a playmaker, because those are hard to find (Peterson, Janoris, etc.) but him being his age, I think it's a pathetic excuse that we are still hoping we can get a potential "playmaker" out of him.

Furthermore, Rogers play slipped a bit last year, but that was somewhat expected. Coming from a player who had a tremendous 2011 season in which he made the probowl. Rogers is still a quality starter in the league. I don't think we will ever see another 2011 type performance from him, but I think we will see yet another 2012 like performance from him next season. Which was good IMO, not great but good enough for us to "win games".

The reason why I bolded the last part of your response is to make a counter argument: If that that were the case, then why only sign Nnamdi to a one year contract as opposed to a 2 year contract? A one year contract makes your argument implausible because Nnamdi being an URFA after this season does not provide us with a security blanket for Rogers or Brown's departure.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

It seems like you're the one ignoring the facts. Let's just pretend that the front office was not seriously looking to improve the position dramatically this offseason. But you're right, Rogers and Nnamdi will be backups while Brown and Culliver will be our probowl corners in 2013.

They brought in a backup QB, too. Have they given up on Kaepernick?

Obviously the team is taking strides to improve a position that proved somewhat weaker than it initially appeared in the post-season. It would be foolish not to do so. It's also fairly likely Culliver will remain in a spot-player role. I'm willing to bet they don't cut him, though, which seems to be your position.

 

[Rathman44]

At 25, one should be at their prime by now. Not still trying to develop their instincts to play the position. Even if there was a miracle and got the "instincts" part situated, he still not a playmaker at the position. Not trying to look for a playmaker, because those are hard to find (Peterson, Janoris, etc.) but him being his age, I think it's a pathetic excuse that we are still hoping we can get a potential "playmaker" out of him.

Furthermore, Rogers play slipped a bit last year, but that was somewhat expected. Coming from a player who had a tremendous 2011 season in which he made the probowl. Rogers is still a quality starter in the league. I don't think we will ever see another 2011 type performance from him, but I think we will see yet another 2012 like performance from him next season. Which was good IMO, not great but good enough for us to "win games".

The reason why I bolded the last part of your response is to make a counter argument: If that that were the case, then why only sign Nnamdi to a one year contract as opposed to a 2 year contract? A one year contract makes your argument implausible because Nnamdi being an URFA after this season does not provide us with a security blanket for Rogers or Brown's departure.

ever consider that maybe Nnamdi only wanted a 1 year contract? It's a 2-way street with these signings. If he couldn't get another lucrative long term deal then his best bet was to play on a cheap 1 year deal for a great D so that he can score a better deal next year. If gets back to his probowl level we have the option of Franchising him next year, thus putting us in the driver's seat for resigning him...same goes for Brown's impending free agency.

 

[BINGO]

Facts:
The opposition completed just 49.3 percent of the passes thrown Culliver's way for a passer rating of just 76.9.
We only brought 1 CB, Nnamdi, in for a visit and he was offered a very inexpensive, non-guarenteed contract, thus proving we were not desperate for FA cornerbacks.
The Sean Smith and Revis interest were all rumors, not facts. No offer was ever made for either player.
Culliver has only played CB for 2 years, after playing Safety in college.


Until you can rationally address each of these issues, there is no point in continuing a conversation with you

Facts:
Alex Smith came very close of breaking the NFL completion percentage in 2012, which makes him one if not the most accurate passer the NFL has ever seen.

Your bs stats are very misleading. If you plan to ingore the footage on this dude and simply rely on your pretty PFF stats, then there is no point in continuing a conversation with you. On that note, DEUCES!!

 

[Rathman44]

They brought in a backup QB, too. Have they given up on Kaepernick?

Obviously the team is taking strides to improve a position that proved somewhat weaker than it initially appeared in the post-season. It would be foolish not to do so. It's also fairly likely Culliver will remain in a spot-player role. I'm willing to bet they don't cut him, though, which seems to be your position.

wow...common sense! what a concept!

 

[BINGO]

They brought in a backup QB, too. Have they given up on Kaepernick?

Obviously the team is taking strides to improve a position that proved somewhat weaker than it initially appeared in the post-season. It would be foolish not to do so. It's also fairly likely Culliver will remain in a spot-player role. I'm willing to bet they don't cut him, though, which seems to be your position.

Oh yeah, Nnamdi was brought in to be a backup. This is exactly the kind of filth that some fans are coming up with. Let's just elimate logic and reason from now on. Comparing Colt McCoy acquisation to Nnamdi's. Wow!!

I guess we improved our QB position by bringing in Colt.

Oh yeah, I challenge you to look for a place (from SB Sunday until today where I proposed to cut ties with Culliver).

 

[Rathman44]

Facts:
Alex Smith came very close of breaking the NFL completion percentage in 2012, which makes him one if not the most accurate passer the NFL has ever seen.

Your bs stats are very misleading. If you plan to ingore the footage on this dude and simply rely on your pretty PFF stats, then there is no point in continuing a conversation with you. On that note, DEUCES!!

haha, how did i know you wouldn't address the facts! run away now...

 

[BINGO]

wow...common sense! what a concept!

 

[BINGO]

haha, how did i know you wouldn't address the facts! run away now...

I told you you got it. I agree with you! He's the best cornerbak on our team. 2nd best in the conference behind Patterson.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

At 25, one should be at their prime by now. Not still trying to develop their instincts to play the position. Even if there was a miracle and got the "instincts" part situated, he still not a playmaker at the position. Not trying to look for a playmaker, because those are hard to find (Peterson, Janoris, etc.) but him being his age, I think it's a pathetic excuse that we are still hoping we can get a potential "playmaker" out of him.

Furthermore, Rogers play slipped a bit last year, but that was somewhat expected. Coming from a player who had a tremendous 2011 season in which he made the probowl. Rogers is still a quality starter in the league. I don't think we will ever see another 2011 type performance from him, but I think we will see yet another 2012 like performance from him next season. Which was good IMO, not great but good enough for us to "win games".

The reason why I bolded the last part of your response is to make a counter argument: If that that were the case, then why only sign Nnamdi to a one year contract as opposed to a 2 year contract? A one year contract makes your argument implausible because Nnamdi being an URFA after this season does not provide us with a security blanket for Rogers or Brown's departure.

A few thoughts. First, Culliver is still relatively new to the position. He is still developing. Maybe he "shouldn't" be, but he is. Most people would view that as a positive.

Rogers wasn't bad last year, though he certainly struggled at times. But as said, he's not going to be worth the money next year. There was speculation he might be asked to take a pay cut this year. We need to develop CBs for the future.

As far as the CB "search," you are the one who characterized it that way. This is a case of you wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's a "CB search" because that suggests the team doesn't like Culliver. However, when I point out the general need at CB, the "search" only consists of adding Asomugha, a temporary solution. You can't have it both ways. Either they are searching for CBs or they took advantage of an opportunity to buy low on a potentially promising vet. Either way, I don't view it as a direct indictment of Culliver.

 

[Rathman44]

I told you you got it. I agree with you! He's the best cornerbak on our team. 2nd best in the conference behind Patterson.

no i think you're right...he's horrible and we should do everything we possibly can to make sure he is replaced so he doesn't see the field. We are in a desperate scavenger hunt for CBs and that's why there were rumors about Sean Smith, Revis, and Leon Sandcastle joining our squad. Culliver should be in his prime in only his 2nd year of playing the position. He is the most overhyped/overrated backup in the history of the NFL. Our coaches aren't that dumb to rely on him, which is why we offered Nnamdi a non-guaranteed 1.35M base contract because we couldn't possibly risk losing him to another team.


See what I did there smart guy? Except I don't have to distort the truth and fabricate what you've said

 

[Rathman44]

A few thoughts. First, Culliver is still relatively new to the position. He is still developing. Maybe he "shouldn't" be, but he is. Most people would view that as a positive.

Rogers wasn't bad last year, though he certainly struggled at times. But as said, he's not going to be worth the money next year. There was speculation he might be asked to take a pay cut this year. We need to develop CBs for the future.

As far as the CB "search," you are the one who characterized it that way. This is a case of you wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's a "CB search" because that suggests the team doesn't like Culliver. However, when I point out the general need at CB, the "search" only consists of adding Asomugha, a temporary solution. You can't have it both ways. Either they are searching for CBs or they took advantage of an opportunity to buy low on a potentially promising vet. Either way, I don't view it as a direct indictment of Culliver.

yup

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Oh yeah, Nnamdi was brought in to be a backup. This is exactly the kind of filth that some fans are coming up with. Let's just elimate logic and reason from now on. Comparing Colt McCoy acquisation to Nnamdi's. Wow!!

I guess we improved our QB position by bringing in Colt.

Oh yeah, I challenge you to look for a place (from SB Sunday until today where I proposed to cut ties with Culliver).

1) I don't think any of us can make any judgments about what Nnamdi's role will be. We are returning our top-3 CBs, and our pass D was markedly better than Philly's last year. Culliver had more INTs, FFs, and PDs than Asomugha last year in limited snaps. Asomugha was one of the worst players in the league in terms of opponent rating when targeting him. It's not like we're paying him obvious starter money. Hell, he may not even make the team.

2) We did improve our QB position, at least for the offseason. Right now, I'm not willing to say Asomugha's roster spot is more secure than McCoy's. They're equally easy to cut before the season. At least McCoy has youth on his side.

3) I said your position seems to be that you want Culliver off the team. That's based on your comments about what a joke he is. I believe you have brought up moving him to FS, so maybe that's your position. It's pretty clear you want nothing to do with him at CB.

 

[Rathman44]

1) I don't think any of us can make any judgments about what Nnamdi's role will be. We are returning our top-3 CBs, and our pass D was markedly better than Philly's last year. It's not like we're paying him obvious starter money. Hell, he may not even make the team.

2) We did improve our QB position, at least for the offseason. Right now, I'm not willing to say Asomugha's roster spot is more secure than McCoy's. They're equally easy to cut before the season. At least McCoy has youth on his side.

3) I said your position seems to be that you want Culliver off the team. That's based on your comments about what a joke he is. I believe you have brought up moving him to FS, so maybe that's your position. It's pretty clear you want nothing to do with him at CB.

When someone says that a player "is the most overhyped/overrated backup in the history of the NFL" and "our coaches aren't that dumb to rely on him," I think it's more than reasonable to assume that he doesn't want him on the team. If the coaches can't rely on him then why would he make the roster?

 

[Rathman44]

1) I don't think any of us can make any judgments about what Nnamdi's role will be. We are returning our top-3 CBs, and our pass D was markedly better than Philly's last year. Culliver had more INTs, FFs, and PDs than Asomugha last year in limited snaps. Asomugha was one of the worst players in the league in terms of opponent rating when targeting him. It's not like we're paying him obvious starter money. Hell, he may not even make the team.

2) We did improve our QB position, at least for the offseason. Right now, I'm not willing to say Asomugha's roster spot is more secure than McCoy's. They're equally easy to cut before the season. At least McCoy has youth on his side.

3) I said your position seems to be that you want Culliver off the team. That's based on your comments about what a joke he is. I believe you have brought up moving him to FS, so maybe that's your position. It's pretty clear you want nothing to do with him at CB.

to further support your point: No guarantee Asomugha is an upgrade for 49ers | CSN Bay Area

 

[BINGO]

to further support your point: No guarantee Asomugha is an upgrade for 49ers | CSN Bay Area

Why are you still continuing, both you and Crimson believe he's a young player still developing and has the skill set to be special. He has a less than 49% completion rate and will only improve on those numbers the more he is able to play against better receivers. Had the coaches not held him back and allow him more snaps then Rogers and Brown, then he would have potentially made the pro bowl this year.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Why are you still continuing, both you and Crimson believe he's a young player still developing and has the skill set to be special. He has a less than 49% completion rate and will only improve on those numbers the more he is able to play against better receivers. Had the coaches not held him back and allow him more snaps then Rogers and Brown, then he would have potentially made the pro bowl this year.

That's not my position. You are using extreme language (while curiously trying to minimize it by then saying you don't want him off the team), and when I point out that you're overstating your case, you accuse me of loving Culliver. I don't.

I think Culliver a young player - at least in terms of NFL experience - who is inexperienced at the CB position. He is still developing, whether you believe it or not. I think he had a generally promising season last year that was marred by a shaky post-season and an awful super bowl. I think he can develop into a quality starting CB. I certainly don't think it's a given at this point. But there's little doubt that, even after adding Asomugha, he's one of the four best CBs on our roster, and as the position could see a MAJOR overhaul next season, it would be silly to give up on him at this point.

Perhaps because of conversations with other posters, you seem to have placed Jenkins and Culliver side-by-side, and you're off the charts with both of them, in opposite directions. Might Jenkins become elite? Sure. He's not there yet. Might Culliver bust? I'd argue no at this point given what he's accomplished to date and where he was picked, but he could very well fall into obscurity in the next few years. But he has not been the complete liability you portray him as.

 

[BINGO]

That's not my position. You are using extreme language (while curiously trying to minimize it by then saying you don't want him off the team), and when I point out that you're overstating your case, you accuse me of loving Culliver. I don't.

I think Culliver a young player - at least in terms of NFL experience - who is inexperienced at the CB position. He is still developing, whether you believe it or not. I think he had a generally promising season last year that was marred by a shaky post-season and an awful super bowl. I think he can develop into a quality starting CB. I certainly don't think it's a given at this point. But there's little doubt that, even after adding Asomugha, he's one of the four best CBs on our roster, and as the position could see a MAJOR overhaul next season, it would be silly to give up on him at this point.

Perhaps because of conversations with other posters, you seem to have placed Jenkins and Culliver side-by-side, and you're off the charts with both of them, in opposite directions. Might Jenkins become elite? Sure. He's not there yet. Might Culliver bust? I'd argue no at this point given what he's accomplished to date and where he was picked, but he could very well fall into obscurity in the next few years. But he has not been the complete liability you portray him as.

Culliver could only wish he were the player that Janoris is even as a rookie. So let's not go there.

Over the top? Before the SB I posted several intelligent analyst and ex coaches were reporting how susceptible he is in giving up the big plays. What happened, the Ravens took advantage of that only weakness of ours:


Keys to beating the 49ers
Early strikes will be key for a Ravens upset
Originally Published: January 30, 2013
By Vince Verhei | Football Outsiders

Neutralizing Frank Gore and the San Francisco ground game is one key for the Ravens.

On Tuesday, we looked at some of the Baltimore Ravens' worst games this season, and what weaknesses those games revealed that could come back to haunt John Harbaugh's team in the Super Bowl. Today, we're turning the tables and looking at the lowlights of the San Francisco 49ers and examining the holes in Jim Harbaugh's team.

As described in the Baltimore article, we're looking for each team's worst games as measured by DVOA, Football Outsiders' exclusive statistic that measures every play of the NFL season one at a time (explained further here). And it turns out that this is something of a challenge, because the 49ers had only two games with a negative DVOA this season, the 26-3 loss to the Giants in Week 6, and the 42-13 loss to Seattle in Week 16. Those are two very bad losses, but it's still hard to draw meaningful conclusions from a two-game sample. So, we'll have to add a trio of games in which San Francisco's DVOA barely snuck into positive numbers: a 24-13 loss to the Vikings in Week 3, a 24-all tie with the Rams in Week 10 and a 16-13 overtime loss in a rematch with the Rams in Week 13.

Two of these games came with Alex Smith at quarterback, and three with Colin Kaepernick. Despite the youngster's playoff heroics, it's important to remember that Kaepernick has started only nine games in his NFL career, and his lack of experience could come back to bite San Francisco at any time.

To be fair to Kaepernick (and Smith for that matter), it was the 49ers' passing defense, not the passing offense, that failed them in their worst games. San Francisco allowed these five opponents to complete 64 percent of their passes, and while those throws gained only 6.7 yards each, they produced nine touchdowns against five sacks and only one interception.

The 49ers were particularly vulnerable to the deep pass. Opponents in these five games completed half their passes that traveled more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage, for an average of 11.8 yards per play. There was plenty of blame to go around on these bombs, but the most common victim was nickelback Chris Culliver, a second-round draft pick in 2011.

Chris Culliver has had a tendency to be beaten deep.

As Danny Tuccitto noted in FO's NFC Championship Game preview, Culliver actually had better coverage numbers over the course of the season than either of San Francisco's starting corners, Carlos Rogers or Tarell Brown. When he did make mistakes, though, they resulted in big chunks of yards for the 49ers' opponents.

Regardless of pass distance, most of San Francisco's coverage struggles came when its opponents were in scoring range. Inside their own 40-yard line, the 49ers allowed opponents to complete 66 percent of their passes, with nine touchdowns and no sacks or interceptions. And finally, it's worth noting that the 49ers played their worst in the first quarter, when opponents completed 69 percent of their passes for 8.7 yards per attempt.

The lesson of all these figures? The Ravens would be wise to let Joe Flacco loose early, and especially after they cross midfield. And if they're fortunate enough to get Torrey Smith matched up with Culliver (which will likely happen at some point, because San Francisco often uses Rogers in the slot in its nickel defense), that could be their best bet for a big play.





After the super bowl, it was confirmed and proven all along that that was what all the teams were attempting to exploit:

49ers vs. Ravens: San Francisco's Biggest Winners and Losers in the Super Bowl | Bleacher Report

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Culliver could only wish he were the player that Janoris is even as a rookie. So let's not go there.

Over the top? Before the SB I posted several intelligent analyst and ex coaches were reporting how susceptible he is in giving up the big plays. What happened, the Ravens took advantage of that only weakness of ours:


Keys to beating the 49ers
Early strikes will be key for a Ravens upset
Originally Published: January 30, 2013
By Vince Verhei | Football Outsiders

Neutralizing Frank Gore and the San Francisco ground game is one key for the Ravens.

On Tuesday, we looked at some of the Baltimore Ravens' worst games this season, and what weaknesses those games revealed that could come back to haunt John Harbaugh's team in the Super Bowl. Today, we're turning the tables and looking at the lowlights of the San Francisco 49ers and examining the holes in Jim Harbaugh's team.

As described in the Baltimore article, we're looking for each team's worst games as measured by DVOA, Football Outsiders' exclusive statistic that measures every play of the NFL season one at a time (explained further here). And it turns out that this is something of a challenge, because the 49ers had only two games with a negative DVOA this season, the 26-3 loss to the Giants in Week 6, and the 42-13 loss to Seattle in Week 16. Those are two very bad losses, but it's still hard to draw meaningful conclusions from a two-game sample. So, we'll have to add a trio of games in which San Francisco's DVOA barely snuck into positive numbers: a 24-13 loss to the Vikings in Week 3, a 24-all tie with the Rams in Week 10 and a 16-13 overtime loss in a rematch with the Rams in Week 13.

Two of these games came with Alex Smith at quarterback, and three with Colin Kaepernick. Despite the youngster's playoff heroics, it's important to remember that Kaepernick has started only nine games in his NFL career, and his lack of experience could come back to bite San Francisco at any time.

To be fair to Kaepernick (and Smith for that matter), it was the 49ers' passing defense, not the passing offense, that failed them in their worst games. San Francisco allowed these five opponents to complete 64 percent of their passes, and while those throws gained only 6.7 yards each, they produced nine touchdowns against five sacks and only one interception.

The 49ers were particularly vulnerable to the deep pass. Opponents in these five games completed half their passes that traveled more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage, for an average of 11.8 yards per play. There was plenty of blame to go around on these bombs, but the most common victim was nickelback Chris Culliver, a second-round draft pick in 2011.

Chris Culliver has had a tendency to be beaten deep.

As Danny Tuccitto noted in FO's NFC Championship Game preview, Culliver actually had better coverage numbers over the course of the season than either of San Francisco's starting corners, Carlos Rogers or Tarell Brown. When he did make mistakes, though, they resulted in big chunks of yards for the 49ers' opponents.

Regardless of pass distance, most of San Francisco's coverage struggles came when its opponents were in scoring range. Inside their own 40-yard line, the 49ers allowed opponents to complete 66 percent of their passes, with nine touchdowns and no sacks or interceptions. And finally, it's worth noting that the 49ers played their worst in the first quarter, when opponents completed 69 percent of their passes for 8.7 yards per attempt.

The lesson of all these figures? The Ravens would be wise to let Joe Flacco loose early, and especially after they cross midfield. And if they're fortunate enough to get Torrey Smith matched up with Culliver (which will likely happen at some point, because San Francisco often uses Rogers in the slot in its nickel defense), that could be their best bet for a big play.





After the super bowl, it was confirmed and proven all along that that was what all the teams were attempting to exploit:

49ers vs. Ravens: San Francisco's Biggest Winners and Losers in the Super Bowl | Bleacher Report

It would help if you actually read what I wrote. I'm not arguing that Jenkins and Culliver are comparable. I'm arguing that you have an exaggerated view of both players - one being great and one being terrible - that overstate (or understate) what each guy brings to the table.

The fact that Culliver has struggled at times does not mean he is the most overrated backup in the history of football. That is a ridiculous statement.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Chris Culliver has had a tendency to be beaten deep.

As Danny Tuccitto noted in FO's NFC Championship Game preview, Culliver actually had better coverage numbers over the course of the season than either of San Francisco's starting corners, Carlos Rogers or Tarell Brown. When he did make mistakes, though, they resulted in big chunks of yards for the 49ers' opponents.

Regardless of pass distance, most of San Francisco's coverage struggles came when its opponents were in scoring range. Inside their own 40-yard line, the 49ers allowed opponents to complete 66 percent of their passes, with nine touchdowns and no sacks or interceptions. And finally, it's worth noting that the 49ers played their worst in the first quarter, when opponents completed 69 percent of their passes for 8.7 yards per attempt.

The lesson of all these figures? The Ravens would be wise to let Joe Flacco loose early, and especially after they cross midfield. And if they're fortunate enough to get Torrey Smith matched up with Culliver (which will likely happen at some point, because San Francisco often uses Rogers in the slot in its nickel defense), that could be their best bet for a big play.

And incidentally, I see you are once again reading selectively. The very article you quote states that he put up better metrics during the season than our starters. Everyone agrees he struggled in the super bowl Again, that doesn't mean we should give up on him at CB.