Kyrie to Boston rumors heating up. Deal nearly complete

[gordontrue]

Well I meant given the circumstances of the trade request and everything else, a potential top 5 pick and solid starter isn't something to sneeze at. But I do get what you're saying. What I was mostly referring to was how essential IT is to this trade and his health going forward. I wasn't saying that Cleveland should consider the deal without him.

My bad, I see what you're saying and yeah, I agree.

I think the Cavs can easily find someone to give them a top pick for Kyrie. And they can pretty easily find someone to give them solid players for Kyrie.

Finding both is where it gets really hard - and that's what this deal had. It just comes down to IT's health and whether he'll be able to help them this year or not.

 

[PatsFan2003]

That's where I strongly disagree.

I know Kyrie isn't well thought-of on here, but a player of his caliber at 25 years old is worth so much more than a top-10 pick.

Except that theres a very real possibilty the Cavs will end next year without LeBron, Kyrie and no Brooklyn pick...

Screwed

 

[gordontrue]

Except that theres a very real possibilty the Cavs will end next year without LeBron, Kyrie and no Brooklyn pick...

Screwed

If they end it with no Kyrie and no Brooklyn pick, then there's another asset or two that they got for Kyrie.

Contrary to popular belief, the Celtics are not the only team with lottery draft picks.

 

[LUNCHBOX]

I disagree. If IT is missing more than 3-4 months, I think the Cavs can do better with the Suns, Bucks, or even just waiting a couple months into the season.

I would love to see that dynamic take place on the court with KI and LBJ both in the same jersey.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's where I strongly disagree.

I know Kyrie isn't well thought-of on here, but a player of his caliber at 25 years old is worth so much more than a top-10 pick.

I mean- at this point it looks like the Cavs are doing Boston a favor by taking Isiah so they odnt have to pay him next year- and are swapping him out for a 25 year old PG who is a top 20 player.

If you are Boston would you rather pay Isiah Thomas a max contract?

Or would you rather have Kyrie Irving under contract for 2 years at 40M?

It seems like Boston doesnt even want to pay ISiah and would likely lose after this year anyway.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's where I strongly disagree.

I know Kyrie isn't well thought-of on here, but a player of his caliber at 25 years old is worth so much more than a top-10 pick.

Under normal circumstances...yes. However, these aren't normal circumstances. Kyrie is trying to force his way out. That puts Cleveland at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to trade options.

The only question is Do the Cavs take what they can get and move him asap? Or do they try to do what the Lakers did when Kobe demanded a trade (with about the same amount of time on his contract, if memory serves), tell him "you're not going anywhere" and try to work a deal to get better players around him?

It worked well for the Lakers. It would be interesting to see what happened if the Cas took a similar approach.

 

[gordontrue]

I would love to see that dynamic take place on the court with KI and LBJ both in the same jersey.

They could always just sit him if it was that big of a problem.

 

[trojanfan12]

Cavs have leverage with the Celtics

Celtics obviously do not want to pay Thomas long term---- there is a reason for that

Celtics obviously love Irving as well- because they would not giveu p the Brooklyn pick for George or Butler.



I think the deal gets done but i think there will be additional compensation--- not much- prob the Clippers 1st rounder.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. I think the Celtics saw what they could be without Isaiah in that they seemed to play more team oriented basketball when he went down. Also, no mater how good he is or how hard he works...his size is always going to be an issue. Kyrie is every bit the player that IT is offensively and while he isn't going to be winning any DPOY awards, his size isn't an issue on defense like it is with IT which makes him at least a little better on defense.

Whether or not there's any more compensation will likely depend on what is ultimately decided about IT's hip. At this point they may want to get an opinion from a 3rd doctor who is not affiliated with either team.

 

[The Q]

I mean- at this point it looks like the Cavs are doing Boston a favor by taking Isiah so they odnt have to pay him next year- and are swapping him out for a 25 year old PG who is a top 20 player.

If you are Boston would you rather pay Isiah Thomas a max contract?

Or would you rather have Kyrie Irving under contract for 2 years at 40M?

It seems like Boston doesnt even want to pay ISiah and would likely lose after this year anyway.

I'll take him back, keep my pick and move IT at the TD.

 

[gordontrue]

Under normal circumstances...yes. However, these aren't normal circumstances. Kyrie is trying to force his way out. That puts Cleveland at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to trade options.

The only question is Do the Cavs take what they can get and move him asap? Or do they try to do what the Lakers did when Kobe demanded a trade (with about the same amount of time on his contract, if memory serves), tell him "you're not going anywhere" and try to work a deal to get better players around him?

It worked well for the Lakers. It would be interesting to see what happened if the Cas took a similar approach.

Yeah, which is why I think the Cavs need to take the approach that Kyrie isn't going to force anything. He's not the one in control here. Just be patient and willing to keep him on roster if you don't get the deal you like. Then you destroy the illusion that the Cavs have to rush into a deal and restore that leverage somewhat.

Its kinda what Koby did initially, just patiently waiting and showing that he wasn't gonna take a deal just for the sake of satisfying Kyrie. I don't think he'll have a problem continuing with that strategy if needed.

 

[gordontrue]

I'll take him back, keep my pick and move IT at the TD.

2 months left on his contract, potentially fresh off missing a bunch of time with his injury.

Not gonna get much for him.

 

[gordontrue]

At this point they may want to get an opinion from a 3rd doctor who is not affiliated with either team.

That would be a good idea.

Reportedly, IT saw a few independent doctors back when the injury first occurred, but I don't think those results were publicized anywhere.

 

[The Q]

2 months left on his contract, potentially fresh off missing a bunch of time with his injury.

Not gonna get much for him.

Lou williams went for a first.

I'm ok. I'd rather Crowder and 2 firsts than 2 years of Kyrie. We've already seen that video last year. The C's need more.

Maybe the picks turn into shit, but it's their only shot.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't think it'll be that bad.

They had problems last year (clearly) and still made the finals quite easily.

True, but only because they play in the East. They could keep Kyrie all season long and as long as he Lebron don't end up brawling on the court in the middle of games, they should be able to get out of the East just on talent alone.

If they do end up keeping Kyrie, that pretty much guarantees that Lebron is gone after the season and for the fans, they kind of have to show that they made some sort of effort to get him to stay (even though, much like the Lakers with Shaq/Kobe, they'd be smarter to try to keep Kyrie, imo). Keeping Kyrie doesn't show that though.

 

[gordontrue]

Lou williams went for a first.

I'm ok. I'd rather Crowder and 2 firsts than 2 years of Kyrie. We've already seen that video last year. The C's need more.

Maybe the picks turn into shit, but it's their only shot.

Yeah, I can definitely see that side of it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'll take him back, keep my pick and move IT at the TD.

who is going to give you anything for the right to pay a 5'8" point guard with hip problems a max contract?

 

[WiggyRuss]

That would be a good idea.

Reportedly, IT saw a few independent doctors back when the injury first occurred, but I don't think those results were publicized anywhere.

from what i have heard is that a lot of people were surprised that he did not elect to have surgery as many thought he should- and that he was being stubborn trying to rest/rehab the injury instead of just getting the surgery- which many think he will eventually need.

 

[CitySushi]

i am not grasping what you are trying to say

and i totally disagree with the highlighted.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that IT at full health is a player worthy of MVP consideration, as we saw last year. It's not as is if he's some throw away player in the deal. Giving him big money is always a concern, but if Lebron leaves, the Cavs could potentially still retain a really great player in IT (again if healthy) and continue a rebuild at the same time. It's really the best situation for them if Lebron chooses to leave. The only other option would be a complete tear down of the team. If that's the case, the Cavs don't have any real assets to get rid of outside of Love and maybe Crowder to a slightly lesser degree. The team is still hamstrung with contracts of Tristan, JR and Korver, without any sizable cap space. The rebuild of the team would take at least 3 years to complete.

If you have IT, you could still complete a rebuild in much the same way. You could offer IT a max for 3 years, which is probably more than most other teams would offer him anyways. Could always through in a 4th year, but hold firm on it. After the 3 year period is up, most of your guys contracts could be off the books. You'll have developed your Brooklyn pick and could complete a rebuild off of him.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, which is why I think the Cavs need to take the approach that Kyrie isn't going to force anything. He's not the one in control here. Just be patient and willing to keep him on roster if you don't get the deal you like. Then you destroy the illusion that the Cavs have to rush into a deal and restore that leverage somewhat.

Its kinda what Koby did initially, just patiently waiting and showing that he wasn't gonna take a deal just for the sake of satisfying Kyrie. I don't think he'll have a problem continuing with that strategy if needed.

It's definitely a gamble for the Cavs, but they'd have 2 years to try to do something. They'd just have to be ready for some really hard times if they couldn't convince any other top players to come to Cleveland and he ended up leaving for nothing as an FA.

The other issue would be that, assuming Lebron left, Kyrie would catch a lot of the blame (much like Kobe did when Shaq left). But that would eventually be overcome if Kyrie plays well.

Interesting that Kyrie has always considered Kobe a mentor and is now essentially in the same position Kobe was in at a similar point in his career. It's just a lot more public with Kyrie than it was with Kobe.

 

[The Q]

who is going to give you anything for the right to pay a 5'8" point guard with hip problems a max contract?

Lou Will went for a first last year.

IT can at least fetch that.