Kyrie to Boston rumors heating up. Deal nearly complete

[WiggyRuss]

I mean- i think the Cavs did wonderfully in the trade- and if Isiah doesnt play until January- who really cares?

but if the Celtics misrepresented the seriousness of the injury- and the Cleveland Clinic doctors (among the best in the world) found something that is worrisome that may suggest IT cant/is at risk of not being able to help the Cavs this year- id send his ass back for spite.

 

[trojanfan12]

This is true to an extent, but only matters if there's only one suitor the Cavs are dealing with. If they have 2 or more teams that want Kyrie, that's where the leverage comes from.

So they have the leverage to bargain for a deal that's below market value vs. a deal that's way below market value. That's not much leverage.

Even though I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with them asking for a little more, their best move right now is probably just to stfu and thank the Celtics for giving them more than anyone else is likely to.

 

[Black Adam]

I mean- i think the Cavs did wonderfully in the trade- and if Isiah doesnt play until January- who really cares?

but if the Celtics misrepresented the seriousness of the injury- and the Cleveland Clinic doctors (among the best in the world) found something that is worrisome that may suggest IT cant/is at risk of not being able to help the Cavs this year- id send his ass back for spite.

too bad the Cavs are doing their level best to hang onto that Brooklyn pick. let's not pretend that the Cavs are coming from a position of power. they're not...

 

[gordontrue]

So they have the leverage to bargain for a deal that's below market value vs. a deal that's way below market value. That's not much leverage.

Even though I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with them asking for a little more, their best move right now is probably just to stfu and thank the Celtics for giving them more than anyone else is likely to.

It really depends on how much time they sincerely think IT will miss and if a truly full recovery is even possible.

If its a month or less... I agree. Get over it and complete the deal.

If its more than half the season... I'd walk away. The deal would basically be Kyrie for the BKN pick & Crowder. That's not a great deal, IMO. They can do at least as good elsewhere.

If its somewhere in the middle, why not take your full 3 days and see what other options you might have.

 

[PatsFan2003]

I mean, we don't know that. If the Cavs are serious about voiding this deal - and none of us knows whether they are... They'd be smart to get the suns, bucks, nuggets, etc on the phone over the next couple days, keeping the Boston deal as an option until it expires Wednesday.

I think they already did that before the deal. This is the best deal by far.

 

[trojanfan12]

Was a little disappointed with Steer N Stein to be honest....

Haven't been there in years. Used to be pretty good. Guess I'll save myself going there again. I wonder if they have new management?

 

[WiggyRuss]

So they have the leverage to bargain for a deal that's below market value vs. a deal that's way below market value. That's not much leverage.

Even though I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with them asking for a little more, their best move right now is probably just to stfu and thank the Celtics for giving them more than anyone else is likely to.

Cavs have leverage with the Celtics

Celtics obviously do not want to pay Thomas long term---- there is a reason for that

Celtics obviously love Irving as well- because they would not giveu p the Brooklyn pick for George or Butler.



I think the deal gets done but i think there will be additional compensation--- not much- prob the Clippers 1st rounder.

 

[gordontrue]

I think they already did that before the deal. This is the best deal by far.

If IT is healthy, yes.

The extent of his health can change this deal all the way from a bad deal to a fantastic deal to everywhere in between.

That's the question at hand and I don't know why any of us who have zero clue about his health status think we can evaluate the deal as being better than others.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It really depends on how much time they sincerely think IT will miss and if a truly full recovery is even possible.

If its a month or less... I agree. Get over it and complete the deal.

If its more than half the season... I'd walk away. The deal would basically be Kyrie for the BKN pick & Crowder. That's not a great deal, IMO. They can do at least as good elsewhere.

If its somewhere in the middle, why not take your full 3 days and see what other options you might have.

if IT cant help them this year- or even if there is a just a MATERIAL risk of that- the Cavs cant complete the deal. Its that simple.

 

[WiggyRuss]

my initial question is- if like in the NFL- you can have a trade where the compensation changes based on performance

I dont think you can do that in the NBA--- while you can in the NFL


If they could say something like- If Isiah plays in 42 or less games you get this XXXX......or if he plays in this many games you get XXXXX....that would give some wiggle room---- but the NBA rules do not allow for that.

 

[PatsFan2003]

If IT is healthy, yes.

The extent of his health can change this deal all the way from a bad deal to a fantastic deal to everywhere in between.

That's the question at hand and I don't know why any of us who have zero clue about his health status think we can evaluate the deal as being better than others.

I think Cleveland had already shopped around and even with IT out for half the season, this is likely the best deal they got.

 

[trojanfan12]

how the fuck do you do "due dillegence" before performing your own unbiased actual examination?

i mean- sure you could read news stories- and listen to what the Celtics are telling you- which i am sure they did

but how do you KNOW before you actually have your own doctors look at a guy?


forgive me if i am mistaken- but im pretty sure BEFORE the terms were agreed to- Isiah wasnt hanging out at the cleveland clinic getting examined by doctors.

Yeah, about the only thing the Cavs might have been able to do was request that IT get checked out before the trade is announced/while they are still in discussions. But I'm not sure the Celtics or IT would be required to comply when a trade is still in the negotiation phase.

 

[CitySushi]

if IT cant help them this year- or even if there is a just a MATERIAL risk of that- the Cavs cant complete the deal. Its that simple.

IMO, it's a much more significant issue than you're making it out to be. As a fan, of course you're looking just in the short term. It makes sense as the way you put it for this particular season if IT is out till January. However the organization trading a player of Kyrie's caliber needs to get a big return for the future. Lebron is no lock to return. If they get a lemon in IT, they're basically trading Kyrie for Crowder and the Brooklyn pick. That in itself isn't bad, but again the organization needs pieces they can hope will stay with them if Lebron does opt to leave. If IT was fully healthy, and say Lebron does leave, it puts the Cavs in solid playoff contention and have another foundational building block with the pick. A team rebuild could start exponentially faster than with a complete tear down, which would be the case if the team lost Lebron and IT couldn't produce long term.

 

[gordontrue]

I think Cleveland had already shopped around and even with IT out for half the season, this is likely the best deal they got.

I disagree. If IT is missing more than 3-4 months, I think the Cavs can do better with the Suns, Bucks, or even just waiting a couple months into the season.

 

[gordontrue]

If they get a lemon in IT, they're basically trading Kyrie for Crowder and the Brooklyn pick. That in itself isn't bad

That's where I strongly disagree.

I know Kyrie isn't well thought-of on here, but a player of his caliber at 25 years old is worth so much more than a top-10 pick.

 

[The Q]

I disagree. If IT is missing more than 3-4 months, I think the Cavs can do better with the Suns, Bucks, or even just waiting a couple months into the season.

I hope they pull out.

the brooklyn pick shoudl've been a non-starter.

It should've been the clippers pick AT BEST from the start.

 

[trojanfan12]

It really depends on how much time they sincerely think IT will miss and if a truly full recovery is even possible.

If its a month or less... I agree. Get over it and complete the deal.

If its more than half the season... I'd walk away. The deal would basically be Kyrie for the BKN pick & Crowder. That's not a great deal, IMO. They can do at least as good elsewhere.

If its somewhere in the middle, why not take your full 3 days and see what other options you might have.

Oh, I completely agree that if the Cavs docs are giving the Cavs different info than the Celtics gave, the Cavs are smart to pump the brakes on this. The Brooklyn pick and Crowder are a decent get for the Cavs considering the position that Kyrie has put them in, but they do have a little time work on another deal.

Absolute worst case scenario is that they don't get a deal done before training camp and the season starts and have to sit Lebron and Kyrie down and tell them..."you're both being paid millions of dollars, so stfu, act like grown ups and make it work until we can get a deal put together."

They still are very unlikely to get fair market value for Kyrie, but they also shouldn't feel they have to take damaged goods in return.

 

[CitySushi]

That's where I strongly disagree.

I know Kyrie isn't well thought-of on here, but a player of his caliber at 25 years old is worth so much more than a top-10 pick.

Well I meant given the circumstances of the trade request and everything else, a potential top 5 pick and solid starter isn't something to sneeze at. But I do get what you're saying. What I was mostly referring to was how essential IT is to this trade and his health going forward. I wasn't saying that Cleveland should consider the deal without him.

 

[The Q]

Oh, I completely agree that if the Cavs docs are giving the Cavs different info than the Celtics gave, the Cavs are smart to pump the brakes on this. The Brooklyn pick and Crowder are a decent get for the Cavs considering the position that Kyrie has put them in, but they do have a little time work on another deal.

Absolute worst case scenario is that they don't get a deal done before training camp and the season starts and have to sit Lebron and Kyrie down and tell them..."you're both being paid millions of dollars, so stfu, act like grown ups and make it work until we can get a deal put together."

They still are very unlikely to get fair market value for Kyrie, but they also shouldn't feel they have to take damaged goods in return.

I don't think it'll be that bad.

They had problems last year (clearly) and still made the finals quite easily.

 

[WiggyRuss]

IMO, it's a much more significant issue than you're making it out to be. As a fan, of course you're looking just in the short term. It makes sense as the way you put it for this particular season if IT is out till January. However the organization trading a player of Kyrie's caliber needs to get a big return for the future. Lebron is no lock to return. If they get a lemon in IT, they're basically trading Kyrie for Crowder and the Brooklyn pick. That in itself isn't bad, but again the organization needs pieces they can hope will stay with them if Lebron does opt to leave. If IT was fully healthy, and say Lebron does leave, it puts the Cavs in solid playoff contention and have another foundational building block with the pick. A team rebuild could start exponentially faster than with a complete tear down, which would be the case if the team lost Lebron and IT couldn't produce long term.

i am not grasping what you are trying to say

and i totally disagree with the highlighted.