Kaepernick's Potential Contract Extension

[badazzk9]

If I was starting a franchise today I would take one of Kap, Luck, Newton, Foles as the QB.
That is my short list. Rodgers is great but to me he's at the top of my group B because he's already 30 years old.

People who say Brady or Manning are the best QBs in the NFL need a reality check. Manning totally sucked against Seattle, he couldn't of have sucked more. He's old and I think he's done championship wise. Sure he can rule the AFC west for a few more years. And what has Brady done lately? Also another team that just beats up every year on the AFC east and then bows out in the playoffs.

I think you have to throw Andy Dalton in there he took a 4-12 team in 2010 and improved them every year to a 11-5 team in 2013. Which is something that every QB you have listed except Kap did which is taking a sup-par team and made them playoff contenders. Also out of the QB's listed Kap is the oldest, just something to point out.

Brady is one of the best in the NFL. What he did this year with the talent around him was remarkable. Its times you don't have much to work with that defines the player you are.

 

[AngryNiner]

Potential is always a consideration. He's not 21, but he's not 35 either. He's played 3 years. In those three years he has shown significant improvement. If, as AngryNiner says, Harbaugh is this QB whisper, why should we believe Kaepernick will stop developing? Do we question his commitment to improving? It isn't as if he's fucking around and wasting time trying to play for the Texas Rangers. Hes working to get better.

I also think saying something like "playing the quarterback position" is dangerous. The QB position in the NFL is going through a fairly significant change right now. Kaep doesn't throw the ball as well as Peyton or Rodgers, but he does bring things to the position that those guys don't. That's now part of playing the quarterback position.

Everyone wants to bad mouth Kap right now because of his performance against Seattle in the NFCC game, but how did Brees do against that defense? How about Manning? Kap's legs gave us a chance to win that game. That's a new dimension.

It was revealed by Kap after the season that he didn't run as much in the regular season because he was told not to, due to concerns about him getting injured. One of the proposals before the competition committee this year is to give more protection to option QBs. If that happens, Kap's value goes up even more. It may not happen in 2014, but if they're talking about it, it will happen eventually.

Where have you gotten this impression? because he goes to the gym? I am more concerned with film study and working on things like foot work and throwing motion.
In what ways has he shown improvement, pray tell?

 

[imac_21]

1) No I didnt.

2) I am not comparing contracts from 10 years ago. Kaepernick is no where near worth the talent Manning was in 04. Yet the 11-13 per number I threw out at the end of my post is close to the 14 mil per Manning got. So the problem here is that I value Kaep a lot less then you do.
Also, you sort of made a point for me. Those guy were on their 3rd or 4th contracts, meaning they have a body of work to back up their worth and overblown rookie contracts that inflated it.
Kaep has played in 29 games with some pretty god awful performances in there. How in the hell can you possibly justify 18 mil per under his resume. It just isnt gunna happen.
Your point about Montana's contract doest have much to do with my point. Thats what he was worth back when he played. He is also JOE MONTANA!
My point there, is that the guys except Flacco and Cutler were top QBs that have a body of work and some pretty out standing stats to back them up. Where is Kaepernicks stats to back up that massive contract? He is not worth Top Dollar yet.

3) You are talking about an entirely different situation. Did Tim Rattay have half the talent the 49ers have now? No.
Did Tim Rattay have the coaching staff the 49ers have now? No.
There is more then 1 model of success to follow. With the 49ers and the Seahawks doing what they did, i thought that made it apparent to anyone paying attention, You dont need a great QB to win a championship in the NFL.

4) They are spreading the wealth now and have been picking in the last 3 years 30, 31, and 30. Also then as opposed to now again no talent on the roster and that was because of years worth of cap hell brought on by careless spending in the past. Do you foresee that happing again any time soon under the current front office?

5) It hasnt been successful so far?
That same amount of success, is your biggest argument for why Kap is such a good QB. Its is going to be the biggest point for Kaepernicks reps in negotiations.

6) Kaep's feelers are the least of my concerns.
Not a hold out. A renegotiation in about 3 or 4 years. That buys time to really see what he is made of.


You're so smart.

SMART SMART SMART

You're offering Kaepernick slightly under Mark Sanchez money (40M over 3 years). Yeah, you have your finger on the pulse of NFL economics.

Manning got 14M when the cap was 80M. You want to give Kap 13M when the salary cap is 133M. Those two contracts are not the same. Not even close. I like how you dismiss the Montana comparison as being a product of his era, but treat the Manning contract in 04 as if it's somehow relevant today.

Did Tim Rattay win football games for us? The approach we took then was having a good QB wasn't important, so we cut Garcia over money to go with Rattay/Dorsey/Pickett.

What is Matt Stafford's case for his contract? The only case he really has is Calvin Johnson. But you seem to think Stafford is about 130-150% of what Kaepernick is at QB (based off your salary comparisons).

 

[imac_21]

I think you have to throw Andy Dalton in there he took a 4-12 team in 2010 and improved them every year to a 11-5 team in 2013. Which is something that every QB you have listed except Kap did which is taking a sup-par team and made them playoff contenders. Also out of the QB's listed Kap is the oldest, just something to point out.

Brady is one of the best in the NFL. What he did this year with the talent around him was remarkable. Its times you don't have much to work with that defines the player you are.

So you're going to hold it against Kaepernick that he took over on a good team and those guys didn't?

 

[imac_21]

Where have you gotten this impression? because he goes to the gym? I am more concerned with film study and working on things like foot work and throwing motion.
In what ways has he shown improvement, pray tell?

I read. You should try it.


Tell me, where have you gotten the impression he isn't watching film and working on his foot work and mechanics?

I would say he's shown improvement in his footwork and throwing mechanics. Compare Kaepernick this year to what he showed in preseason as a rookie.

Or are you under the impression we could have started him as a rookie and got the same performance we got in the 23 games he's played?

If you don't think he's improved in his 3 years, maybe we shouldn't trust Harbaugh et al to a develop a young QB. He's had 3 years to develop Kap and, if I understand you correctly, has accomplished absolutely nothing with him.

 

[AngryNiner]

You're offering Kaepernick slightly under Mark Sanchez money (40M over 3 years). Yeah, you have your finger on the pulse of NFL economics.

Manning got 14M when the cap was 80M. You want to give Kap 13M when the salary cap is 133M. Those two contracts are not the same. Not even close. I like how you dismiss the Montana comparison as being a product of his era, but treat the Manning contract in 04 as if it's somehow relevant today.

Did Tim Rattay win football games for us? The approach we took then was having a good QB wasn't important, so we cut Garcia over money to go with Rattay/Dorsey/Pickett.

What is Matt Stafford's case for his contract? The only case he really has is Calvin Johnson. But you seem to think Stafford is about 130-150% of what Kaepernick is at QB (based off your salary comparisons).

Staffords case for a big contract is monster stats. Where is Kaeps monster stats?

Really no reason in addressing the other points. Manning and Kaep are not comparable at all. Again, Garcia and Rattay eras were completely different situations then the current one and thus are not really comparable.

Mark Sanchez sucks and that was a bad contract at the time. Basically, what the Niners are risking if Kaep doesnt work out.

I read. You should try it.


Tell me, where have you gotten the impression he isn't watching film and working on his foot work and mechanics?

I would say he's shown improvement in his footwork and throwing mechanics. Compare Kaepernick this year to what he showed in preseason as a rookie.

Or are you under the impression we could have started him as a rookie and got the same performance we got in the 23 games he's played?

If you don't think he's improved in his 3 years, maybe we shouldn't trust Harbaugh et al to a develop a young QB. He's had 3 years to develop Kap and, if I understand you correctly, has accomplished absolutely nothing with him.

Watching film? i dont know and neither do you. If he has been working on his footwork and throwing mechanics he is doing a terrible job of it as there has been no noticeable improvement on Sundays. but this is subjective. you claim that there has been improvement in those areas. I havent seen any.
I was speaking about on the field improvement. something tangible, like stats. Where are the stats to back up your claims that Kaep has improved? Waiting... waiting... waiting... They arnt coming are they?

You're giving him credit because you read that shortly after the Seahawks loss he was in the weight room working out. Im sure you know that all football players work out so this really isnt saying much. There is no reading material to be had (that I have seen) that says, he is first one in and the last one out. Or that he is constantly studying film or practicing football drills. So again where have you gotten the impression he is hard at work right now, improving.

I am not denying that Kaep has improved over his NFL career thats bound to happen with experience. But weather he will take the next step is yet to be seen. As of now he is a one read, running QB.
I think kaep is smart. I never said he is dumb. I just doubt that he is really working as hard at his trade as you are saying that he is. Or at least I believe he is focusing on the wrong things.

 

[whysies]

Imac- in what ways do you think Kap improved from his second year to his third? If anything I thought he regressed (he seemed more jittery in the pocket and less able to go through progressions). I'm interested to hear your thoughts regarding what he does better now than he did in his first half season starting.

 

[badazzk9]

So you're going to hold it against Kaepernick that he took over on a good team and those guys didn't?

No but the over praise he gets for "taking" the team to the playoffs is over blown. I'm going to hold it against him that he has regressed as a qb and the team was good enough to get him there. He does have 4 road playoff wins but so does Mark Sanchez.

 

[MHSL82]

Imac- in what ways do you think Kap improved from his second year to his third? If anything I thought he regressed (he seemed more jittery in the pocket and less able to go through progressions). I'm interested to hear your thoughts regarding what he does better now than he did in his first half season starting.

I would say he's shown improvement in his footwork and throwing mechanics. Compare Kaepernick this year to what he showed in preseason as a rookie.

Maybe there's more, but that's your answer right there.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Staffords case for a big contract is monster stats. Where is Kaeps monster stats?

Really no reason in addressing the other points. Manning and Kaep are not comparable at all. Again, Garcia and Rattay eras were completely different situations then the current one and thus are not really comparable.

Mark Sanchez sucks and that was a bad contract at the time. Basically, what the Niners are risking if Kaep doesnt work out.

Watching film? i dont know and neither do you. If he has been working on his footwork and throwing mechanics he is doing a terrible job of it as there has been no noticeable improvement on Sundays. but this is subjective. you claim that there has been improvement in those areas. I havent seen any.
I was speaking about on the field improvement. something tangible, like stats. Where are the stats to back up your claims that Kaep has improved? Waiting... waiting... waiting... They arnt coming are they?

You're giving him credit because you read that shortly after the Seahawks loss he was in the weight room working out. Im sure you know that all football players work out so this really isnt saying much. There is no reading material to be had (that I have seen) that says, he is first one in and the last one out. Or that he is constantly studying film or practicing football drills. So again where have you gotten the impression he is hard at work right now, improving.

I am not denying that Kaep has improved over his NFL career thats bound to happen with experience. But weather he will take the next step is yet to be seen. As of now he is a one read, running QB.
I think kaep is smart. I never said he is dumb. I just doubt that he is really working as hard at his trade as you are saying that he is. Or at least I believe he is focusing on the wrong things.

Just throwing this out there, not trying to interject or join the discussion but Kap has been known to at least be the first one in and is also recognized as one of the hardest workers on the team. What he is doing with that time I honestly do not know, even his response this off-season about what he was gonna be looking to improve on was very Nolan-esque.
San Francisco 49ers ? Niner Insider Blog » Colin Kaepernick gets back to work
I think it was last off-season one of the beat guys tweeted a photo of Kap's car at headquarters around 6AM and then Gore showed up a little bit later and he was amused that he wasn't the first one in. Something like that.

 

[purguy12]

Ryan over Luck

I like Ryan more. Its just my opinion.

 

[purguy12]

Hey guys good news Cap for 2016 is going to be around 160 million. Now we can afford Kap.

 

[MHSL82]

Hey guys good news Cap for 2016 is going to be around 160 million. Now we can afford Kap.

We CAN afford it, but we should pay him if we feel he's the guy and pay him what we feel is right regardless of the cap. (I can't imagine what we feel being right being worse for the cap than a normal big QB contract.) Increased cap should not be a reason why we sign him if we aren't sure or the reason why we sign him more than he is worth now. Maybe next year we overpay because it's then him staying or not staying. If he struggles, we still may need to overpay to keep him, but it'd be our choice and likely less than what he's asking now.

Now, there are arguments both ways (paying a lot or little bit less) and on waiting. We can use 89% of the cap (mandatory) on the best guys we can get and carry over as much of the 11% as we can for the future. It's not use it or lose it, though it certainly does help a lot (helps others, too).

It's like those who rush out to spend their tax refund as if it's not real money. Do what you would with that money if it weren't a refund. If you'd still spend it, being honest with your budget, do it. But it's real money you have the option of spending elsewhere or saving.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Hey guys good news Cap for 2016 is going to be around 160 million. Now we can afford Kap.

Welcome to old news.

 

[MHSL82]

Welcome to old news.

It's not just old news, he said it when it was new, too. I think this was a "bump this thread" type of post so he re-said it.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

 

[purguy12]

Money money money


We got this

 

[deep9er]

Hey guys good news Cap for 2016 is going to be around 160 million. Now we can afford Kap.

that certainly helps, but what about 2014 and 2015? also, that cap is also for the entire roster. there will be more players to extend before 2016, and in 2016.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Just saw this in a PFT article arguing that we shouldn't give Kap big money this year:

Ninth, all stats aside (and there are plenty of stats to support any given media agenda or bias), Kaepernick is zero-for-two when it comes to delivering in the ultimate clutch. Two seasons ago, he failed to get the ball to Michael Crabtree from the doorstep of the goal line with the Super Bowl in the balance. In January, Kaepernick underthrew slightly a pass to Crabtree when Crabtree was covered in the end zone by Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman, in a situation where the ball should have been placed in a spot where Crabtree or no one should have been able to touch it.

I agree with many/most of the arguments made in the article, and his poor play in the red zone has resulted in our elimination in the last two playoffs. But I don't see how he's 0-2. After all, he brought the team back from a 17-point deficit in the NFCC game the year before, as well as leading the game-winning drive against the Packers this past year. At worst I've got him at 2-2 in the "ultimate clutch," if we're defining that as close games with elimination on the line.

 

[imac_21]

Staffords case for a big contract is monster stats. Where is Kaeps monster stats?

Really no reason in addressing the other points. Manning and Kaep are not comparable at all. Again, Garcia and Rattay eras were completely different situations then the current one and thus are not really comparable.

Mark Sanchez sucks and that was a bad contract at the time. Basically, what the Niners are risking if Kaep doesnt work out.

Watching film? i dont know and neither do you. If he has been working on his footwork and throwing mechanics he is doing a terrible job of it as there has been no noticeable improvement on Sundays. but this is subjective. you claim that there has been improvement in those areas. I havent seen any.
I was speaking about on the field improvement. something tangible, like stats. Where are the stats to back up your claims that Kaep has improved? Waiting... waiting... waiting... They arnt coming are they?

You're giving him credit because you read that shortly after the Seahawks loss he was in the weight room working out. Im sure you know that all football players work out so this really isnt saying much. There is no reading material to be had (that I have seen) that says, he is first one in and the last one out. Or that he is constantly studying film or practicing football drills. So again where have you gotten the impression he is hard at work right now, improving.

I am not denying that Kaep has improved over his NFL career thats bound to happen with experience. But weather he will take the next step is yet to be seen. As of now he is a one read, running QB.
I think kaep is smart. I never said he is dumb. I just doubt that he is really working as hard at his trade as you are saying that he is. Or at least I believe he is focusing on the wrong things.

How hard have you looked? It took me about 6 seconds to find this
Hard work keeps Kaepernick ahead of the game - SFGate
I typed "Colin Kaepernick work ethic into google and it was the first hit.

This was second
Colin Kaepernick?s dedication off the field led him to Super Bowl Sunday | theGrio

Here's a fun one from TWO DAYS AFTER THE NFCC GAME this year. Kaepernick was at the facility working already.

Colin Kaepernick Already Working at 49ers HQ

And as I laid out earlier, signing him would not be a difficult task, and it wouldn't make signing others difficult.

But you want to give him less than Sanchez. You don't think it's fair that he should make more than Manning did 10 years ago, despite the salary cap being 165% what it was then. You say we shouldn't compare Kaepernick to Manning, but we also shouldn't care 2014 NFL economics to 2004 NFL economics. We shouldn't compare 2014 NFL economics to anything prior to the last lockout.

But that makes it difficult for you to rant and rave about how overpaid he would be.

Matt Stafford has the monster stats to justify his contract? I guess we should just let Kap throw more often then. Kap had a 7.69 YPA this year. That would be a career high for Stafford.

Stafford threw a TD once in every 21 passes this year. Kap threw a TD once for every 20.

Of course, it wasn't 2013 that got Stafford his big extension. Maybe we should look at 2012, when he threw a TD once for every 36 passes.

The two years in which Kap has had significant playing time his QB ratings would rank 1st and 3rd for Stafford's career.

If we compare 2013 seasons the only stat Stafford is better is pass attempts. He had more yards because he threw 218 more passes. Despite those 218 more passes, he only thew 8 more TDs. Staford did manage 11 more interceptions. Stafford threw an interception once every 33 passes. Kaepernick threw one INT once every 52 passes.

But yeah, Stafford is worth the big contract and Kaep isn't.

And we'll just ignore the added dimension of Kaepernick running the ball.

And we'll ignore the bit about Megatron playing 14 games this year and Crabtree (who isn't on Megatron's level anyway) only playing 5.

How about Eli Manning? How does he compare statistically? Well, Kap's 91.6 passer rating in 2013 would be the 3rd best ever for Eli.His 7.69 ypa would be 3rd best in Eli's career. Kap's TD/pass ratio would have been the 3rd best in Eli's career. Of course, in Eli's best TD/pass year he thew an INT once ever 23.5 passes, which is more than twice as often as Kap did this year.

So you're down on Kap because he had a horrible year, but his horrible year would be a top 3 season for Eli Manning and Matt Stafford on a per pass basis. And you say Stafford and Manning deserve 18M per year, but Kap deserves 11M?

I could understand someone making the point that Eli has won two Super Bowls, but those same people seem to dismiss 49er success as a function of the team, not the QB.

Stafford, however, doesn't have the team success and his individual stats seem to largely be a factor of sample size. He throws more, so he has more yards and TDs.