Just how good ARE the Chiefs?

[cdumler7]

LOL, so when I point out that Denvers D is ranked 24th Im not looking at it the right way. When I point out that the greatest QB of all time had terrible stats his first 3 years Im dumb because his record was good but when I point out Smith has a better record AND better efficiency metrics over the same time span than Elway did Im "simple minded"??? OK. Got it. Heres my new approach. Denver is awesome, their D is really really good and just has had some bad luck. KC sucks balls and is only 8-0 because their schedule has sucked and their D is good ( but their offense is putrid and has played very little part in getting them to 8-0). Now we are all on the same page.

Are you really this simple minded? I just don't know how better to break some of this down for you so you can understand. Let me go ask my 8 year old niece if she can come over here and explain this easier for you because I am just having trouble understanding why this is so hard for you to understand. When even most Chief fans would disagree with you on this topic maybe it is time for you to take a step back and really think through all of this. None of us on here are saying that Alex Smith is trash. We are saying he is not a top 5 quarterback. We are saying that he is not the biggest reason they are winning. Is that really so crazy to say? I mean they have a top 10 rushing offense and the top defense in the NFL. Is it so crazy to give them credit for being a major part of why they are winning? Is it so crazy of us to say Andy Reid has been a good coach for them when he has won every where else he has coached? Just because we are not lifting Alex Smith up on a pedestal like you are doesn't mean we are being idiotic in what we are saying. We recognize Alex Smith pretty much the rest of the world sees him in being a good game manager that doesn't turn the ball over. He is not a guy that is going to go out and will his team to victory very often but he is also not going to be the biggest reason they lose either in most games.

 

[rmilia1]

Are you really this simple minded? I just don't know how better to break some of this down for you so you can understand. Let me go ask my 8 year old niece if she can come over here and explain this easier for you because I am just having trouble understanding why this is so hard for you to understand. When even most Chief fans would disagree with you on this topic maybe it is time for you to take a step back and really think through all of this. None of us on here are saying that Alex Smith is trash. We are saying he is not a top 5 quarterback. We are saying that he is not the biggest reason they are winning. Is that really so crazy to say? I mean they have a top 10 rushing offense and the top defense in the NFL. Is it so crazy to give them credit for being a major part of why they are winning? Is it so crazy of us to say Andy Reid has been a good coach for them when he has won every where else he has coached? Just because we are not lifting Alex Smith up on a pedestal like you are doesn't mean we are being idiotic in what we are saying. We recognize Alex Smith pretty much the rest of the world sees him in being a good game manager that doesn't turn the ball over. He is not a guy that is going to go out and will his team to victory very often but he is also not going to be the biggest reason they lose either in most games.

No one has said hes a top 5 QB man. No one has said he is the main reason the team has turned it around. Im simply giving his part of the credit instead of trying to say the Chiefs are doing it in spite of him. I dont get why thats tough to comprehend and I dont even give 2 fucks about Alex Smith but to listen to you guys pretty much any guy off the street could be playing QB for KC and they would still be 8-0 which is utterly preposterous. Stats can be used to pretty much say anything you want them to like I could say that Matt Ryan will undoubtedly end up a far superior QB to Peyton Manning because through the first 5.5 years of their career Ryan has more Td's, less INT's, more yards, better QB rating, better ypa and a far better record overrall so its 100% certainty that he will eclipse Mannings accomplishments because the stats say so.... See how stupid that is??? You know whats not stupid?? Winning.

 

[cdumler7]

No one has said hes a top 5 QB man. No one has said he is the main reason the team has turned it around. Im simply giving his part of the credit instead of trying to say the Chiefs are doing it in spite of him. I dont get why thats tough to comprehend and I dont even give 2 fucks about Alex Smith but to listen to you guys pretty much any guy off the street could be playing QB for KC and they would still be 8-0 which is utterly preposterous. Stats can be used to pretty much say anything you want them to like I could say that Matt Ryan will undoubtedly end up a far superior QB to Peyton Manning because through the first 5.5 years of their career Ryan has more Td's, less INT's, more yards, better QB rating, better ypa and a far better record overrall so its 100% certainty that he will eclipse Mannings accomplishments because the stats say so.... See how stupid that is??? You know whats not stupid?? Winning.

So you come on the Broncos board to tell us how great the Chiefs are, how horrible our defense is, insult the greatest player to play on the Broncos in their history, and you expect us just to respond with "Well you know you are right?"

If you read what most of us have actually said about Alex Smith we have given him some credit. You maybe give him a little more credit than the rest of us but it is not like we have been saying he is top of the league kind of guy. HE is a middle of the road guy that doesn't make a ton of mistakes to hurt his team. Is that so awful of us to say about that guy? Is that really that much different than what most analyst have been saying about him over the year especially the last few? Is it so bad to say that he has limitations in what he can do for the offense and how far he can take them?

He has won a ton of games...Good for him. So has Trendon Holiday. Before the Colts game he hadn't lost in the regular season since he came into the league. Now obviously he doesn't quite have the impact on a game that a quarterback has but obviously winning isn't the end all be all of how good or bad a player is. There are some teams that can win even with the limitations of one player and there are others that win because one player raises the team above what their actual talent level is. Alex Smith I would say is one of those guys that has some major limitations but because he knows what those are and his coach knows what those are they do not put them in situations that take him out of his comfort area. Because of this is why the last 3 coaches at San Fran were looking to trade or cut him during their time with San Fran. This is well documented. He is an average quarterback that is a nice one to have as a team transitions but not the guy I am excited about going out and winning a game for my team.

 

[iknowftbll]

No one has said hes a top 5 QB man. No one has said he is the main reason the team has turned it around. Im simply giving his part of the credit instead of trying to say the Chiefs are doing it in spite of him. I dont get why thats tough to comprehend and I dont even give 2 fucks about Alex Smith but to listen to you guys pretty much any guy off the street could be playing QB for KC and they would still be 8-0 which is utterly preposterous. Stats can be used to pretty much say anything you want them to like I could say that Matt Ryan will undoubtedly end up a far superior QB to Peyton Manning because through the first 5.5 years of their career Ryan has more Td's, less INT's, more yards, better QB rating, better ypa and a far better record overrall so its 100% certainty that he will eclipse Mannings accomplishments because the stats say so.... See how stupid that is??? You know whats not stupid?? Winning.

Nobody here is arguing the Chiefs are winning in spite of Smith. We are simply looking at the complete team effort more so than you are. We are looking at what the defense and players like Charles have contributed. We have suggested with a Lessor defense Smith would not be able to be the x-factor the way some of the better QBs are.

 

[rmilia1]

So you come on the Broncos board to tell us how great the Chiefs are, how horrible our defense is, insult the greatest player to play on the Broncos in their history, and you expect us just to respond with "Well you know you are right?"

If you read what most of us have actually said about Alex Smith we have given him some credit. You maybe give him a little more credit than the rest of us but it is not like we have been saying he is top of the league kind of guy. HE is a middle of the road guy that doesn't make a ton of mistakes to hurt his team. Is that so awful of us to say about that guy? Is that really that much different than what most analyst have been saying about him over the year especially the last few? Is it so bad to say that he has limitations in what he can do for the offense and how far he can take them?

He has won a ton of games...Good for him. So has Trendon Holiday. Before the Colts game he hadn't lost in the regular season since he came into the league. Now obviously he doesn't quite have the impact on a game that a quarterback has but obviously winning isn't the end all be all of how good or bad a player is. There are some teams that can win even with the limitations of one player and there are others that win because one player raises the team above what their actual talent level is. Alex Smith I would say is one of those guys that has some major limitations but because he knows what those are and his coach knows what those are they do not put them in situations that take him out of his comfort area. Because of this is why the last 3 coaches at San Fran were looking to trade or cut him during their time with San Fran. This is well documented. He is an average quarterback that is a nice one to have as a team transitions but not the guy I am excited about going out and winning a game for my team.

I said the Broncos were the best team in the NFL and that John Elway was the greatest QB of all time. Do you read the posts?? Alright Leaving this time for real. You guys have a great season

 

[WalkerBoh]

One of the first things you did was proclaim that Alex Smith's W-L record was the best in the league, knowing quite well what the implication is. Classic troll tactic #1: take some single stat or record, and use it to imply Team A/Player A is the best in the league. You then drag in some out of the ballpark argument on how Alex Smith is somehow better than Elway. Classic troll tactic #2: sprinkle some backhanded negatives about the Team who's board you're on or about a player, or former player. From there, you change your stance and suddenly stats are important! (Denver's bad because their defense is #24....etc..) Classic troll tactic #3: Change the rules as it suits you, especially if you can paint the fans' team in a negative light. And then there's Classic troll tactic #4: ignore most of the opposing arguments, and cherry pick only what you can use to push your point.

So, you basically pulled all those on here, but are crying because we don't agree with you and don't take you seriously? Please. Move along, Troll.

 

[cdumler7]

I said the Broncos were the best team in the NFL and that John Elway was the greatest QB of all time. Do you read the posts?? Alright Leaving this time for real. You guys have a great season

Yes I do read your posts...Your comments about Elway were pretty darn backhanded but hey whatever. Anyway don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I am amazed that this topic has gotten so much discussion. Each time I read the thread title I think that the answer to the question that it poses is "certainly not god enough to warrant all of this!". LOL

Why do you suppose that KC is only a three-point favorite at Buffalo? Really hope the Bills hand the Chiefs their first loss!

 

[iknowftbll]

I am amazed that this topic has gotten so much discussion. Each time I read the thread title I think that the answer to the question that it poses is "certainly not god enough to warrant all of this!". LOL

Why do you suppose that KC is only a three-point favorite at Buffalo? Really hope the Bills hand the Chiefs their first loss!

It's not beyond the realm of possible, and even within the realm of probable. and while on gameday I will definitely be rooting against the Chiefs it is not going to break my heart if they win. This is a good season for them and the Broncos, and it would be great to see the Broncos be the first team to knock them off.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I am amazed that this topic has gotten so much discussion. Each time I read the thread title I think that the answer to the question that it poses is "certainly not god enough to warrant all of this!". LOL

Why do you suppose that KC is only a three-point favorite at Buffalo? Really hope the Bills hand the Chiefs their first loss!

I'd say with Manuel they could pull the upset. Not so sure with Lewis/Tuel/Flynn though (have they decided who to start yet?) Still, Fred Jackson is having a good year, KC has struggled to stop the run at times this season. Could be interesting. (That and Buffalo seems to have KC's number recently. Similar to a few years ago when Jax had ours....)

 

[TDs3nOut]

It's not beyond the realm of possible, and even within the realm of probable. and while on gameday I will definitely be rooting against the Chiefs it is not going to break my heart if they win. This is a good season for them and the Broncos, and it would be great to see the Broncos be the first team to knock them off.

That would work too!

 

[TDs3nOut]

I'd say with Manuel they could pull the upset. Not so sure with Lewis/Tuel/Flynn though (have they decided who to start yet?) Still, Fred Jackson is having a good year, KC has struggled to stop the run at times this season. Could be interesting. (That and Buffalo seems to have KC's number recently. Similar to a few years ago when Jax had ours....)

Buffalo is banged up. I read that Manuel is definitely out and that Lewis is about a 50% chance to start.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Still, Fred Jackson is having a good year, KC has struggled to stop the run at times this season

That is a good thing. Buffalo really wants to keep a stud like Alex Smith on the sidelines and running the ball will do that.

 

[Morpheus]

Also the Chiefs have no shot to beat anyone in the playoffs if they fall behind EVER during any portion of the game . Oh and the Broncos 24th ranked defense is actually wayyyy better than that its just bad luck that their stats blow ( you forgot those clear facts in your summation). LOL

You seem to lean on the stats too much to make your point and stats are misleading.

Sarcastic attitude aside, Try the eye-test. Have you actually watched any Broncos games this year?

The defense has been missing key starters off and on all season so far. Wesley Woodyard was out from the Dallas game to the Colts game, 3 of the Broncos worst defensive outings.

Von Miller did not return until the Colts game, where the defense did play better in the 2nd half. The Colts benefited from 3 turnovers by the Broncos giving them a short field. 19 points off of turnovers, and yet they almost came back and the defense held them in the late part of the game.

The Passing defense statistics are very skewed. Broncos have been blowing opponents out scoring an average of 43 points per game, making them abandon the run and start passing which makes the passing defense look worse than they are and the run defense look better than they actually are.

Look what happened this last weekend when the Broncos had all their starters except Champ Bailey back.

The Defense held a very good Washington Offense to 14 points. They pressured and sacked RGIII and Kirk Cousins constantly. This defense will only get better the 2nd half of the season.

And no one said the Chiefs "have no shot to beat anyone in the playoffs if they fall behind EVER". I said I don't think they can match the offensive production of the Colts, Broncos or Bengals, 3 teams that are mot likely going to be in the playoffs.

Lose the attitude and we can have an objective conversation about football. Unless your crush on Alex Smith has you too emotional.

 

[Morpheus]

Couldnt agree more buddy. Hence my Alex Smith argument but you guys need to make your mind up. If its about not looking at stats for Denvers D then it can be the same for Smith or if its not only about winning if your stats arent good then Elway should have lost his job in Denver year 2. You guys want your cake and to eat it too and thats how fans are but Im not a fan of either team so I can be objective

I have the Sunday Ticket so I record and watch all AFC West games and other possible AFC playoff opponents and I have to say that Alex Smith is not exactly inspiring that, "Clutch QB in the 2nd half that can comeback from a deficit and win the game" feeling you get with Manning, Brady, Brees, Luck, Stafford, Kaepernick or even Russel Wilson. You know, the Eye-Test. Not Stats. Especially not Team Stats.

Smith is a game manager who is careful. He won't take chances with the ball. He does not stretch the field and go deep. This is a passer friendly NFL (another reason why comparing Elway to Smith is absolutely idiotic) and the rules benefit an aggressive passing team these days.

When Elway played Dan Reeves was hand-off on 1st and 2nd down for 3 yards and a cloud of dust and would only throw on 3rd down or 2nd and long occasionally. Denver did nto have much of a running game back then and while I loved them and knew Ricky Nattielle personally, the 3 Amigos were not exactly a group of premiere wide receivers.

Elway still carried teams with inferior talent on offense and a pretty good defense to 3 Superbowls before Shanny got here and got the rest of the pieces to win back to back Superbowls.

Alex Smith is no John Elway, not even close. To make any comparison or parallels with their development the first few years of their career is moronic.

Also, you seem to equate a lot of the 49ers and Chiefs success as a team and give Alex Smith a lot of the credit for it when referring to his win loss record. Again a misleading stat that you are using to infer his worth as a QB.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I have the Sunday Ticket so I record and watch all AFC West games and other possible AFC playoff opponents and I have to say that Alex Smith is not exactly inspiring that, "Clutch QB in the 2nd half that can comeback from a deficit and win the game" feeling you get with Manning, Brady, Brees, Luck, Stafford, Kaepernick or even Russel Wilson. You know, the Eye-Test. Not Stats. Especially not Team Stats.

Smith is a game manager who is careful. He won't take chances with the ball. He does not stretch the field and go deep. This is a passer friendly NFL (another reason why comparing Elway to Smith is absolutely idiotic) and the rules benefit an aggressive passing team these days.

When Elway played Dan Reeves was hand-off on 1st and 2nd down for 3 yards and a cloud of dust and would only throw on 3rd down or 2nd and long occasionally. Denver did nto have much of a running game back then and while I loved them and knew Ricky Nattielle personally, the 3 Amigos were not exactly a group of premiere wide receivers.

Elway still carried teams with inferior talent on offense and a pretty good defense to 3 Superbowls before Shanny got here and got the rest of the pieces to win back to back Superbowls.

Alex Smith is no John Elway, not even close. To make any comparison or parallels with their development the first few years of their career is moronic.

Also, you seem to equate a lot of the 49ers and Chiefs success as a team and give Alex Smith a lot of the credit for it when referring to his win loss record. Again a misleading stat that you are using to infer his worth as a QB.

Ehhhhh.... He was only interested in stats when it helped his trolling cause.

Exhibit A) Implying Alex Smith was the best QB in the league (Better than Manning) because his record is 27-5-1.

Exhibit B) When shown that record is incredibly misleading, goes on to say his stats are better than Elway's were in his first 3-4 years. (When it's pointed out what Elway's record was in year 2 and 3, says that his stats were crap and he'd have been benched if he played today.) Sad part is most of Smith's stats didn't even support this, except his other goto stat TD's to INT's.

He implied Smith was better than Manning, and said Smith was better than Elway. He's just trying to get a rise out of us. Classic Troll trying to pawn himself off as just a football fan contributing to a discussion. Guy was a Falcons fan to boot. Not sure why he felt the need to be so involved in a thread about the Chiefs on a Broncos board, except, of course, to troll.

 

[BURN49ers]

W-L records get attached to a QB, but everyone knows a win or a loss is a result of a complete team effort. If you think Smith's record improvement has nothing to do with the 49ers fielding better defenses in his last few years with the team then you are fooling yourself. Smith did improve his own level of play to be sure. But nothing in a football game happens in a vaccum. Screening that happens on the field affects other aspects of the game. Offenses and defenses and special teams affect each other. Smith's W-L record definitely benefitted from the 49ers defense improving.

So by your own logic in BOLD, Smith's QB play has made the Chiefs defense a lot better. So you have to give Smith credit for making the Defense better, by extending drives and winning the field position game. Yet it seems like you believe the only reason the Chiefs are doing good is solely because of their defense.

 

[Morpheus]

Maybe because they dont turn it over much?? Who handles the ball every play anyway???... LOL. I know stats man and they are fine if you use them as part of an intelligent, well balanced argument but when you cherry pick them to try and make a better case for your argument then its BS. Alex Smith has a 2.25 to1 TD to INT rate. Thats top 10 in the league, his team controls the ball for a total of 6 minutes more per game than their opposition. Thats first in the league ( yes I understand that too is a function of the D but it also reflects on the O). Most importantly all of this adds to and ends up in him being 27-5-1 since the start of 2011, thats the best record in the NFL for a QB in that span. Is he a elite level QB? NO. However he is more elite than the Denver defense is yet when I bring that up I just " am trolling" or " dont get details". LOL. RIGHTTTT.

You are proving yourself wrong in this statement.


Yes, Alex Smith gets credit for not turning over the football. That is helping his team win. The TOP is factor is partially him and mostly the benefit of a good running game.

But these wins have all come against teams in the bottom half of the league. They barely beat some teams as earlier pointed out yet you ignore.

Mark my words, when they play teams with really good offenses (Broncos, Colts, Bengals) I predict that their defense will not be able to slow them down much and I guarantee that their Offense will not be able to keep pace with the Broncos.

The biggest reason I say that you ask?

The QB.

If Peyton Manning was the Chiefs QB, that team would hands down be one of the best in the league if they had just one or two more top 5 receivers. Why they are not using Bowe that much on the offense this year is beyond me.

 

[iknowftbll]

So by your own logic in BOLD, Smith's QB play has made the Chiefs defense a lot better. So you have to give Smith credit for making the Defense better, by extending drives and winning the field position game. Yet it seems like you believe the only reason the Chiefs are doing good is solely because of their defense.

Not true at all, and if you've read the whole of my posts you would know how inaccurate your statement is. Perhaps you would not have made it, in fact. I absolutely believe Smith helps make the Chiefs defense better by not making many mistakes and turning the ball over, which puts the D in a bad spot. Even if I have not spelled it out as plainly as that, my constant focus on the complete team effort throughout this thread makes it clear I believe this.

At the same time, Smith's inability to take his offense and pull away from opponents is itself a liability to his defense, because as games grind on it increases pressure for the defense.

But overall I will gladly acknowledge Smith's play has helped the Chiefs. And I repeat, if you'd read the entire thread, you would already know that.

 

[WalkerBoh]

So by your own logic in BOLD, Smith's QB play has made the Chiefs defense a lot better. So you have to give Smith credit for making the Defense better, by extending drives and winning the field position game. Yet it seems like you believe the only reason the Chiefs are doing good is solely because of their defense.

Actually, he's saying the MAIN reason KC is winning is through its defense, which is true. It is, after all, the defense that's been putting games away for the Chiefs, not Smith. You don't see Smith driving the Chiefs down to score the "nail in the coffin TD", you see the KC defense preventing the opposing offense from doing anything.

We give Smith his props that he's managing the offense well, and not turning the ball over. That's his contribution though, and that's all he's doing, or being asked to do. The real lifeblood to that offense is Charles. You put in Chase Daniel instead of Smith, KC still wins the bulk of their games, and has a good shot at that 8-0 record. Take Charles out, and they struggle to go 4-4.