Just how good ARE the Chiefs?

[WalkerBoh]

True. I just pulled the stat from total scoring offense. If you subtract ST and Defensive TD's they are only averaging 19.6 PPG.

That sucks, lol.

Their highest scoring game was against the Giants with 31 and the offense only put up 24. McCluster returned a kick off for a TD.

Yes, but that 19.6 PPG (minus Charles' contribution) is the reason KC is 8-0 ya know

 

[iknowftbll]

You guys may laugh at me for this, but the Raiders are slowly coming together and I could see them beating the Chiefs in Oakland the last game of the season.

I won't laugh at that at all. At this point in the season it appears that every game remaining on the Chiefs schedule is tougher than every game they have played so far. There are no gimmes on that slate. Even Buffalo, a game I do expect the Chiefs to win, may be a challenge for them. They haven't won up there since 1986.

Then they get 3 AFC West games in a row, two of them against the Broncos with a home game against the Chargers wedged in between. It's tough to win division games sequentially, even if two of them are at home.

After that they face off against the Redskins in the Politically Incorrect Bowl, where the Chiefs may be able to score on that Redskins defense, but I also see the Redskins being able to move it against their defense on the ground.

The Raiders game is actually here in the schedule. And if the Raiders continue to put the pieces together they are going to be up for this game, even if they are not in playoff contention at that point. The reason is they are trying to shed a culture of losing.

The Colts are the Chiefs last home game, and they blew through two of the league's toughest defenses like it was cool already.

The Chiefs' last game of the season is in San Diego. The Chargers are so-so on both sides of the ball. They are good enough to beat any team, bad enough to be beat by any team (except the Jags). Like the Raiders, the Chargers will be up for this one even if they are already out of the playoff picture because they will be looking to close on a high note.

It would be ridiculous to suggest the 8-0 Chiefs could finish 8-8. But there are no gimmes remaining and I think we've all seen stranger things happen in the NFL. Plenty of teams have lost 8 in a row. I do not actually believe the Chiefs will bottom out this badly. In fact, I don't think they'll bottom out. I do think they finish 12-4 tops, though meaning they've gone 4-4 against the last half of their schedule.

 

[Morpheus]

Anyway, to sum up, the Chiefs have talent on both sides of the ball and good coaching. Their defense looks good so far, but have yet to face a truly good offense aside from Dallas and they won that game at home with and a gifted plus 2 turnover margin.

But Alex Smith is nothing more than an above average QB, who can't stretch the field. He also has not faced that many good pass defenses apart from Tennessee. Smith threw for 20/39 for 245 and an INT in that game. Underwhelming.

The Chiefs Defense bailed them out with fumble return and Succup was 4/4 on FG attempts. Their defense faced a back up QB in Fitzpatrick who threw 2 INTS.

I think they are lucky to be 8-0. It sure is not the offense and the play of Alex Smith winning them ball games.

 

[rmilia1]

Anyway, to sum up, the Chiefs have talent on both sides of the ball and good coaching. Their defense looks good so far, but have yet to face a truly good offense aside from Dallas and they won that game at home with and a gifted plus 2 turnover margin.

But Alex Smith is nothing more than an above average QB, who can't stretch the field. He also has not faced that many good pass defenses apart from Tennessee. Smith threw for 20/39 for 245 and an INT in that game. Underwhelming.

The Chiefs Defense bailed them out with fumble return and Succup was 4/4 on FG attempts. Their defense faced a back up QB in Fitzpatrick who threw 2 INTS.

I think they are lucky to be 8-0. It sure is not the offense and the play of Alex Smith winning them ball games.

Also the Chiefs have no shot to beat anyone in the playoffs if they fall behind EVER during any portion of the game . Oh and the Broncos 24th ranked defense is actually wayyyy better than that its just bad luck that their stats blow ( you forgot those clear facts in your summation). LOL

 

[WalkerBoh]

Anyway, to sum up, the Chiefs have talent on both sides of the ball and good coaching. Their defense looks good so far, but have yet to face a truly good offense aside from Dallas and they won that game at home with and a gifted plus 2 turnover margin.

But Alex Smith is nothing more than an above average QB, who can't stretch the field. He also has not faced that many good pass defenses apart from Tennessee. Smith threw for 20/39 for 245 and an INT in that game. Underwhelming.

The Chiefs Defense bailed them out with fumble return and Succup was 4/4 on FG attempts. Their defense faced a back up QB in Fitzpatrick who threw 2 INTS.

I think they are lucky to be 8-0. It sure is not the offense and the play of Alex Smith winning them ball games.

You're kinder than I am. Based on where I see his stats relative to the other QB's Smith is average at best. Heck, Calvin Johnson has more 300-yd games so far this season

 

[cdumler7]

Also the Chiefs have no shot to beat anyone in the playoffs if they fall behind EVER during any portion of the game . Oh and the Broncos 24th ranked defense is actually wayyyy better than that its just bad luck that their stats blow ( you forgot those clear facts in your summation). LOL

I think if you focus on stats alone and don't look at the whole picture of things you can end up looking like a jack ass in the end. The Broncos 24th ranked defense has been with half of the starting unit either missing a majority of the season or at least missing a few games so to say that the Broncos are going to play like the 24th ranked defense the rest of the season is again just not looking at the whole picture. When Del Rio and especially Fox designed this defense for the Broncos it was designed around the idea that Von Miller was the center piece of the entire defense and what they did with him dictated what they did with everybody else. Kind of hard when you are missing your center piece. Throw in then missing a HOF cornerback on the outside. Then on top of that the Defensive Captain and playcaller has also been out in Woodyard. That is a lot of talent missing from the field on defense. They did just hold at the time was a top 5 offense in the NFL under 300 yards and to only 14 points with all but Champ back in the lineup. Hmmm weird coincidence in your mind I guess on that.

 

[rmilia1]

I think if you focus on stats alone and don't look at the whole picture of things you can end up looking like a jack ass in the end. The Broncos 24th ranked defense has been with half of the starting unit either missing a majority of the season or at least missing a few games so to say that the Broncos are going to play like the 24th ranked defense the rest of the season is again just not looking at the whole picture. When Del Rio and especially Fox designed this defense for the Broncos it was designed around the idea that Von Miller was the center piece of the entire defense and what they did with him dictated what they did with everybody else. Kind of hard when you are missing your center piece. Throw in then missing a HOF cornerback on the outside. Then on top of that the Defensive Captain and playcaller has also been out in Woodyard. That is a lot of talent missing from the field on defense. They did just hold at the time was a top 5 offense in the NFL under 300 yards and to only 14 points with all but Champ back in the lineup. Hmmm weird coincidence in your mind I guess on that.

Couldnt agree more buddy. Hence my Alex Smith argument but you guys need to make your mind up. If its about not looking at stats for Denvers D then it can be the same for Smith or if its not only about winning if your stats arent good then Elway should have lost his job in Denver year 2. You guys want your cake and to eat it too and thats how fans are but Im not a fan of either team so I can be objective

 

[WalkerBoh]

I think if you focus on stats alone and don't look at the whole picture of things you can end up looking like a jack ass in the end. The Broncos 24th ranked defense has been with half of the starting unit either missing a majority of the season or at least missing a few games so to say that the Broncos are going to play like the 24th ranked defense the rest of the season is again just not looking at the whole picture. When Del Rio and especially Fox designed this defense for the Broncos it was designed around the idea that Von Miller was the center piece of the entire defense and what they did with him dictated what they did with everybody else. Kind of hard when you are missing your center piece. Throw in then missing a HOF cornerback on the outside. Then on top of that the Defensive Captain and playcaller has also been out in Woodyard. That is a lot of talent missing from the field on defense. They did just hold at the time was a top 5 offense in the NFL under 300 yards and to only 14 points with all but Champ back in the lineup. Hmmm weird coincidence in your mind I guess on that.

Don't bother. He's just trolling. He looks at stats when it suits him, yet will only look at the W-L record to proclaim Smith a top-5 QB. Forget the fact that Smith is below average on every major (and minor) quarterback catagory this season. Nevermind the fact a wide receiver has more 300-yard games than Smith does. Nevermind that he's only a factor in 27% of KC's points this year. He's Top-5 and he's the sole reason the Chiefs are 8-0!!!

 

[rmilia1]

Don't bother. He's just trolling. He looks at stats when it suits him, yet will only look at the W-L record to proclaim Smith a top-5 QB. Forget the fact that Smith is below average on every major (and minor) quarterback catagory this season. Nevermind the fact a wide receiver has more 300-yard games than Smith does. Nevermind that he's only a factor in 27% of KC's points this year. He's Top-5 and he's the sole reason the Chiefs are 8-0!!!

In dont give a fuck about stats. I bring stats up when it comes to Denver to point out the invalidity of your arguments when it comes to Smith. You are cherry picking for whatever argument suits you. Denver is the best team in the NFL and thats my opinion but KC is damn good and they are good because ( in part ) they now have a fucking really good QB that knows how to win. Thats it. If you want to look at stats for Smith but then tell me the Denver D's stats are not important then you are full of shit Thats all. Im the polar opposite of a troll. Im telling the truth. I dont think youre trolling either. I just think your looking at it through homer glasses.

 

[iknowftbll]

Couldnt agree more buddy. Hence my Alex Smith argument but you guys need to make your mind up. If its about not looking at stats for Denvers D then it can be the same for Smith or if its not only about winning if your stats arent good then Elway should have lost his job in Denver year 2. You guys want your cake and to eat it too and thats how fans are but Im not a fan of either team so I can be objective

I am beginning to wonder if you've even read and comprehended much of what we've said throughout this discussion. This is not an indictment on Smith's stats. The discussion on his W-L record is as much about the defenses supporting him as anything else. A QB doesn't win or lose games by himself.

You're guilty of why you're accusing other posters of when in reality all they're doing is applying the same metrics you've endorsed for the sake of discussion. If you want to talk W-L we can do that. If you want to talk stats we can do that to. However both are a bit of a dumbing down for most of the Broncos fans who post here because most of then know how to analyze the game on a more holistic level. You don't seem to be able to handle this, but then accuse Broncos fans of wanting to have their cake and eat it too when they bring their discussion points down to a level you can comprehend.

 

[rmilia1]

I am beginning to wonder if you've even read and comprehended much of what we've said throughout this discussion. This is not an indictment on Smith's stats. The discussion on his W-L record is as much about the defenses supporting him as anything else. A QB doesn't win or lose games by himself.

You're guilty of why you're accusing other posters of when in reality all they're doing is applying the same metrics you've endorsed for the sake of discussion. If you want to talk W-L we can do that. If you want to talk stats we can do that to. However both are a bit of a dumbing down for most of the Broncos fans who post here because most of then know how to analyze the game on a more holistic level. You don't seem to be able to handle this, but then accuse Broncos fans of wanting to have their cake and eat it too when they bring their discussion points down to a level you can comprehend.

WTF are you talking about man?? The ONLY metric Ive used in my discussion on Smith is the only one that matters. Wins. I dont care about any other metric and neither should you. You guys want to hem and haw on semantics but KC is 8-0 and in first place and their QB is part of the reason, a big part. Stats are irrelevant to me and I only use them to point out how you guys are cherry picking them. Anyway Im done with this because if people care more about 300 yard games than wins I cant have a rational argument with them. Good luck the rest of the year. Your team is outstanding.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I am beginning to wonder if you've even read and comprehended much of what we've said throughout this discussion. This is not an indictment on Smith's stats. The discussion on his W-L record is as much about the defenses supporting him as anything else. A QB doesn't win or lose games by himself.

You're guilty of why you're accusing other posters of when in reality all they're doing is applying the same metrics you've endorsed for the sake of discussion. If you want to talk W-L we can do that. If you want to talk stats we can do that to. However both are a bit of a dumbing down for most of the Broncos fans who post here because most of then know how to analyze the game on a more holistic level. You don't seem to be able to handle this, but then accuse Broncos fans of wanting to have their cake and eat it too when they bring their discussion points down to a level you can comprehend.

He's just jealous. Denver's still riding high as a Super Bowl contender, while the Falcons are wallowing in the "what could have been" season that almost was. And to make things worse, all he has to look forward to is a Lakers subpar season.

Maybe if Alex Smith were the Falcons' quarterback, they'd be 7-0 right now instead of 2-5

 

[iknowftbll]

WTF are you talking about man?? The ONLY metric Ive used in my discussion on Smith is the only one that matters. Wins. I dont care about any other metric and neither should you. You guys want to hem and haw on semantics but KC is 8-0 and in first place and their QB is part of the reason, a big part. Stats are irrelevant to me and I only use them to point out how you guys are cherry picking them. Anyway Im done with this because if people care more about 300 yard games than wins I cant have a rational argument with them. Good luck the rest of the year. Your team is outstanding.

Okay, so you want to talk wins. I'll make this simple. KC has won because of a combination of smart and conservative QB play and their defense. They are +12 on the turnover ratio. That is a function of defense. They are 2nd in the league in ppg allowed. That is a function of defense. I can go on. The Chiefs defense is as much or more a factor in their 8-0 start as is the play of Alex Smith. For example, when the Chiefs could not mount enough offense to pull away from the Browns it was their defense that kept the Browns from taking over the game. Same with the contests against the Texans and Cowboys.

Yes, wins are the only truly important metric, but some of us have enough football knowledge (or at a minimum curiosity) to explore how those wins are produced. If you want to look at wins and no deeper that's fine. Understanding details isn't for everyone.

 

[Broncosr0k]

WTF are you talking about man?? The ONLY metric Ive used in my discussion on Smith is the only one that matters. Wins. I dont care about any other metric and neither should you.

Wins are one of the worst statistics to use to argue how good an individual is. Rex Grossman was impressive the year they went to the SB because his team won a lot. Christian Ponder took his team to the playoffs last year (ignoring AP's amazing season.) This is a team sport and a team wins or loses. We have pointed that out numerous times.

You also have cherry picked 2 seasons in which he and his team improved. It is difficult to point those wins out when so much changed for the entire team. If the chiefs were 8-0 and the defense still sucked I would admit he is good because he improved.

Also, claiming he just wins makes you sound like a Tebow supporter. That is their only argument, he wins. If he just wins why did the broncos finish 8-8 with him and were blown out by better offenses? If he just wins why couldn't he beat out Mark Sanchez and win for the jets? There is much more to a win than just a player. Even Manning or Brady are never the sole reason for a win.

 

[cdumler7]

Okay, so you want to talk wins. I'll make this simple. KC has won because of a combination of smart and conservative QB play and their defense. They are +12 on the turnover ratio. That is a function of defense. They are 2nd in the league in ppg allowed. That is a function of defense. I can go on. The Chiefs defense is as much or more a factor in their 8-0 start as is the play of Alex Smith. For example, when the Chiefs could not mount enough offense to pull away from the Browns it was their defense that kept the Browns from taking over the game. Same with the contests against the Texans and Cowboys.

Yes, wins are the only truly important metric, but some of us have enough football knowledge (or at a minimum curiosity) to explore how those wins are produced. If you want to look at wins and no deeper that's fine. Understanding details isn't for everyone.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This guy doesn't seem to want to dive any deeper than "Well the Chiefs are 8-0 so that must mean that Smith is a great quarterback." I will say this Smith is probably the best "Game Managing Quarterback" in the league. What I mean by that is he knows his role on this team and that is to not put the defense in a bad situation and play the safe throws. This kind of game plan can work against the mediocre teams in the NFL and even sometimes against some of the better teams if their defense can force turnovers like we have seen this year. Can this type of play win a Superbowl? Well I don't know if it can in today's NFL. 10 years ago maybe but not so much today. A quarterback is going to have to take a few chances and be aggressive because even the best defenses are not going to be able to hold teams down forever and in every game.

 

[rmilia1]

Okay, so you want to talk wins. I'll make this simple. KC has won because of a combination of smart and conservative QB play and their defense. They are +12 on the turnover ratio. That is a function of defense. They are 2nd in the league in ppg allowed. That is a function of defense. I can go on. The Chiefs defense is as much or more a factor in their 8-0 start as is the play of Alex Smith. For example, when the Chiefs could not mount enough offense to pull away from the Browns it was their defense that kept the Browns from taking over the game. Same with the contests against the Texans and Cowboys.

Yes, wins are the only truly important metric, but some of us have enough football knowledge (or at a minimum curiosity) to explore how those wins are produced. If you want to look at wins and no deeper that's fine. Understanding details isn't for everyone.

Maybe because they dont turn it over much?? Who handles the ball every play anyway???... LOL. I know stats man and they are fine if you use them as part of an intelligent, well balanced argument but when you cherry pick them to try and make a better case for your argument then its BS. Alex Smith has a 2.25 to1 TD to INT rate. Thats top 10 in the league, his team controls the ball for a total of 6 minutes more per game than their opposition. Thats first in the league ( yes I understand that too is a function of the D but it also reflects on the O). Most importantly all of this adds to and ends up in him being 27-5-1 since the start of 2011, thats the best record in the NFL for a QB in that span. Is he a elite level QB? NO. However he is more elite than the Denver defense is yet when I bring that up I just " am trolling" or " dont get details". LOL. RIGHTTTT.

 

[iknowftbll]

He's just jealous. Denver's still riding high as a Super Bowl contender, while the Falcons are wallowing in the "what could have been" season that almost was. And to make things worse, all he has to look forward to is a Lakers subpar season.

Maybe if Alex Smith were the Falcons' quarterback, they'd be 7-0 right now instead of 2-5

I can appreciate someone coming in and propping up the Chiefs. In fact, I wish more would, specifically Chiefs fans. It's fun to talk about this stuff, which is why I started the thread to begin with. But it gets old when someone repeatedly takes such a simple minded approach by looking only at wins and losses and not the factors that go into those wins or losses and is unwilling or more likely unable to comprehend the total picture. And to top it off he accuses posters of cherry picking when they dumb down their analysis to metrics more consistent with his own. In a conversation is referred to as a concession and is made often for the sake of discussion and not necessarily because the person behind the statement is actually voicing his position. This is an idea that is clearly outside the realm of a certain poster's comprehension.

 

[rmilia1]

I can appreciate someone coming in and propping up the Chiefs. In fact, I wish more would, specifically Chiefs fans. It's fun to talk about this stuff, which is why I started the thread to begin with. But it gets old when someone repeatedly takes such a simple minded approach by looking only at wins and losses and not the factors that go into those wins or losses and is unwilling or more likely unable to comprehend the total picture. And to top it off he accuses posters of cherry picking when they dumb down their analysis to metrics more consistent with his own. In a conversation is referred to as a concession and is made often for the sake of discussion and not necessarily because the person behind the statement is actually voicing his position. This is an idea that is clearly outside the realm of a certain poster's comprehension.

LOL, so when I point out that Denvers D is ranked 24th Im not looking at it the right way. When I point out that the greatest QB of all time had terrible stats his first 3 years Im dumb because his record was good but when I point out Smith has a better record AND better efficiency metrics over the same time span than Elway did Im "simple minded"??? OK. Got it. Heres my new approach. Denver is awesome, their D is really really good and just has had some bad luck. KC sucks balls and is only 8-0 because their schedule has sucked and their D is good ( but their offense is putrid and has played very little part in getting them to 8-0). Now we are all on the same page.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I can appreciate someone coming in and propping up the Chiefs. In fact, I wish more would, specifically Chiefs fans. It's fun to talk about this stuff, which is why I started the thread to begin with. But it gets old when someone repeatedly takes such a simple minded approach by looking only at wins and losses and not the factors that go into those wins or losses and is unwilling or more likely unable to comprehend the total picture. And to top it off he accuses posters of cherry picking when they dumb down their analysis to metrics more consistent with his own. In a conversation is referred to as a concession and is made often for the sake of discussion and not necessarily because the person behind the statement is actually voicing his position. This is an idea that is clearly outside the realm of a certain poster's comprehension.

Well, it's fortunate that most of the Chiefs fans that have come over here so far can have an informed discussion about our respective teams. Props to Lakers-Chief there. He'd probably be laughing at this guy too. I actually post on a Chiefs board, and none of them would proclaim Smith as a top-5 QB or think that he's the reason they are 8-0. They see him as a few steps better than Cassel, but he's not really what they wanted. They give the bulk of their props to Jamaal Charles, Andy Reid, and the defense (mainly Poe, Hali, Houston, and Berry). They know the real reason why the Chiefs are winning, and they kinda like that. They really wish Smith would throw downfield. It irks them that they can't close out opponents offensively, but are really glad they have a defense that up until now has shut everyone down in the 4th quarter.

 

[cdumler7]

Maybe because they dont turn it over much?? Who handles the ball every play anyway???... LOL. I know stats man and they are fine if you use them as part of an intelligent, well balanced argument but when you cherry pick them to try and make a better case for your argument then its BS. Alex Smith has a 2.25 to1 TD to INT rate. Thats top 10 in the league, his team controls the ball for a total of 6 minutes more per game than their opposition. Thats first in the league ( yes I understand that too is a function of the D but it also reflects on the O). Most importantly all of this adds to and ends up in him being 27-5-1 since the start of 2011, thats the best record in the NFL for a QB in that span. Is he a elite level QB? NO. However he is more elite than the Denver defense is yet when I bring that up I just " am trolling" or " dont get details". LOL. RIGHTTTT.

You talk about us cherry picking stats and then you do the same dang thing every time. Sheesh hypocrite much? Smith is good at what he does and that is taking the safe underneath throws every chance that he gets. You want to talk about that 2.25 to 1 TD ratio then let's look at his yards per attempt. He is 29th in the league in yards per pass attempt. That usually is a showing that he is taking very few deep attempts and is relying quite a bit on those short passes gaining yards after the catch. Nothing wrong with that just means teams don't have to worry about him going deep very often and stretching the defense. Then throw in one player accounts for 40% of all their offense it means defenses can key in on that one guy. Now Charles even with being keyed on is having a great year but my guess him being used so much is eventually going to take a toll on him which it has with him now missing practices with injuries and such.

Now about his record during all this time. Is he a part of why those teams have been successful? OF course he has. Could other quarterbacks on those teams have been just as successful or possibly even more...OF course they could have. In both KC and San Fran during that time he has had a top 10 run game and a top 5 defense to help him out. I don't know if any other quarterback in the NFL can say they have had that the last 3 years to help them out.