Just how good ARE the Chiefs?

[Morpheus]

Sure man, QBs get the credit when a team is good and get the blame when they arent. Just the way it is. I was in ATL a few weeks ago for the NE/ATL game and ALL the talk radio shows were bashing the shit out of Ryan despite the fact he tore it up that game. Im sure you guys will be MORE than pleased to blame Smith if and when the Chiefs finally lose so lets give him some props for being the best winner in the NFL at his position over the last few years.

What?


So because the media does that, credits QB's more than they deserve and blames them more when they lose, it is suddenly legitimate?

Are you suffering from some malady that affects your ability to think for yourself?

I'll wait while you look up the definition of "malady".

 

[iknowftbll]

Sure man, QBs get the credit when a team is good and get the blame when they arent. Just the way it is. I was in ATL a few weeks ago for the NE/ATL game and ALL the talk radio shows were bashing the shit out of Ryan despite the fact he tore it up that game. Im sure you guys will be MORE than pleased to blame Smith if and when the Chiefs finally lose so lets give him some props for being the best winner in the NFL at his position over the last few years.

Wrong again. I am very good about giving opponents credit where it is due. Read my posts on other threads if you do not believe me. I expect Alex Smith will play hard against the Broncos, but I believe his team is about to run into a better team in the Broncos. (This talk may be a bit premature as both the Chiefs and Broncos have the Bills and Chargers respectively before they play each other.) Alex Smith can have a great day and the Chiefs are probably still going to lose that game by 2 scores. This is because that Chiefs defense, which has been so good to this point, is still likely to give up at least 30 points to the Broncos. And if they do, the Chiefs are probably going to struggle to keep up. And that's only partially Smith's fault, partially the defense's fault. Like I said: it takes a whole team to win. It's also true that it takes a whole team to lose.

 

[rmilia1]

Before making claims like that you might want to step back and say "is this going to be really stupid what I am about to say?" I live in Kansas and have seen every Chiefs game this year. My best friend has 2 season tickets to the Chiefs every year so I go to about 3 games a year. I have actually been to Arrowhead more times than I have Mile High in my lifetime. Thankfully most Chiefs fans are a little more respectful and intelligent than you and I actually enjoy talking with them at the stadium.

Thats awesome man. Congrats. Has nothing to do with knowledge on KC, I am more than qualified to speak on them. Plus Im not a Chiefs fan... What have I said that is so bad here?? Just countering points you and others have made with other thoughts. You dont have to agree but doesnt make them less valid. You guys sure get your panties in a bunch when someone has differing views. LOL

 

[rmilia1]

Wrong again. I am very good about giving opponents credit where it is due. Read my posts on other threads if you do not believe me. I expect Alex Smith will play hard against the Broncos, but I believe his team is about to run into a better team in the Broncos. (This talk may be a bit premature as both the Chiefs and Broncos have the Bills and Chargers respectively before they play each other.) Alex Smith can have a great day and the Chiefs are probably still going to lose that game by 2 scores. This is because that Chiefs defense, which has been so good to this point, is still likely to give up at least 30 points to the Broncos. And if they do, the Chiefs are probably going to struggle to keep up. And that's only partially Smith's fault, partially the defense's fault. Like I said: it takes a whole team to win. It's also true that it takes a whole team to lose.

So QB's dont get the brunt of the criticism when there teams lose and the majority of the credit when they win??? Thats news to me and probably every media outlet in the country.

 

[rmilia1]

Wrong again. I am very good about giving opponents credit where it is due. Read my posts on other threads if you do not believe me. I expect Alex Smith will play hard against the Broncos, but I believe his team is about to run into a better team in the Broncos. (This talk may be a bit premature as both the Chiefs and Broncos have the Bills and Chargers respectively before they play each other.) Alex Smith can have a great day and the Chiefs are probably still going to lose that game by 2 scores. This is because that Chiefs defense, which has been so good to this point, is still likely to give up at least 30 points to the Broncos. And if they do, the Chiefs are probably going to struggle to keep up. And that's only partially Smith's fault, partially the defense's fault. Like I said: it takes a whole team to win. It's also true that it takes a whole team to lose.

And youre probably right. Like I said, Denver is the best team in the NFL so they should beat KC. They SHOULD beat everyone they play but they havent done so this year. Doesnt mean they wont win out though.

 

[WalkerBoh]

OK Ill play along. KC is +44 in the second half of games this year ( 2nd best in the NFL), the Chiefs are +31 in the 4th quarter of games this year ( BEST in the NFL). KC scored late to beat Dallas ( outscored them in the 4th), KC scored late to put away Philly ( turning a 3 point game into a 10 point win), KC scored 21 straight point ( 14 in the 4th quarter ) to take a 10-7 halftime game with the Giants to a 31-7 win, KC scored late against Tennessee to turn a 2 point game into a 9 point win and KC outscored Oakland 17-0 in the second half ( 10-0 in the 4th ) to turn a tied game into a 17 point win. Not sure what how many points the D has given up in the second half has to do with the offense scoring to put teams away but to answer your question the D hasnt given up much.

So for three games, the offense scored well in the 4th quarter, and thus "Put the game away": Philly, Giants, Tennessee. However:

1) You're wrong about the Dallas game. KC and Dallas scored 3 apiece in the 4th. Overall, KC only outscored Dallas 10-6 in the 2nd half. Dallas was never "put away" until the final possession.

2) Against Jax, neither offense scored in the 3rd or 4th quarter.

3) The past three weeks, Chiefs have scored a total of 16 offensive points in the 2nd half, and 6 in the 4th quarter. In comparison, the defense has allowed only 13 points inthe 2nd half, and zero points in the 4th. This was against Oakland, Houston's #3 QB, and Cleveland's #3 QB.

So, basically, the defense for the Chiefs has been doing the heavy lifting in putting opponents away, for the most part. Offense has been doing it's job in limiting turnovers, but with the exception of the Tennessee game, hasn't been asked to come from behind. (That was a 4-pt deficit). Thanks for helping to prove our point

 

[iknowftbll]

So QB's dont get the brunt of the criticism when there teams lose and the majority of the credit when they win??? Thats news to me and probably every media outlet in the country.

Not what I said, so I see no need to respond in content. Please don't try to put words in my mouth. I am quite capable of speaking for myself.

 

[iknowftbll]

So for three games, the offense scored well in the 4th quarter, and thus "Put the game away": Philly, Giants, Tennessee. However:

1) You're wrong about the Dallas game. KC and Dallas scored 3 apiece in the 4th. Overall, KC only outscored Dallas 10-6 in the 2nd half. Dallas was never "put away" until the final possession.

2) Against Jax, neither offense scored in the 3rd or 4th quarter.

3) The past three weeks, Chiefs have scored a total of 16 offensive points in the 2nd half, and 6 in the 4th quarter. In comparison, the defense has allowed only 13 points inthe 2nd half, and zero points in the 4th. This was against Oakland, Houston's #3 QB, and Cleveland's #3 QB.

So, basically, the defense for the Chiefs has been doing the heavy lifting in putting opponents away, for the most part. Offense has been doing it's job in limiting turnovers, but with the exception of the Tennessee game, hasn't been asked to come from behind. (That was a 4-pt deficit). Thanks for helping to prove our point

I think you may blow a few gaskets with your analysis of situational statistics. It may be a little too involved for some in the classroom.

 

[rmilia1]

What?


So because the media does that, credits QB's more than they deserve and blames them more when they lose, it is suddenly legitimate?

Are you suffering from some malady that affects your ability to think for yourself?

I'll wait while you look up the definition of "malady".

LOL OK man Im well aware of what malady means. You guys resort to name calling alot when faced with opposing viewpoints. Interesting. Facts are still facts and the most recent one I have shown is that the Chiefs are very very good at pulling away from teams late in games which is a supposed "concern" people had about their ability to win in the playoffs.

 

[rmilia1]

You guys are fantastic!! You ask for stats because originally I wasnt looking at enough metrics and was only focused on the W-l aspect ( you know, the most important part) and now when I provide stats you tell me the stats dont really prove anything. LOL. Awesome.

 

[iknowftbll]

LOL OK man Im well aware of what malady means. You guys resort to name calling alot when faced with opposing viewpoints. Interesting. Facts are still facts and the most recent one I have shown is that the Chiefs are very very good at pulling away from teams late in games which is a supposed "concern" people had about their ability to win in the playoffs.

I haven't called you names. I don't think anyone has, actually. I think most of us here have drawn the conclusion that based on the type of arguments and facts you present that you are a relative novice at analyzing the game of football. I will credit you for presenting facts, albeit it seems you have a long way to go before effectively using those facts to reach deeper analytical conclusions. It would be like saying "The sky is blue." That's enough for many people, but some want to know "why" the sky is blue or "how it got that way."

You guys are fantastic!! You ask for stats because originally I wasnt looking at enough metrics and was only focused on the W-l aspect ( you know, the most important part) and now when I provide stats you tell me the stats dont really prove anything. LOL. Awesome.

It's because the stats you provided DON'T prove anything as has been outlined by other posters already. Going back to my "sky is blue" example, this would be the equivalent of you saying, "Well, there are clouds in the sky." It's a true statement, but it doesn't really address why the sky is blue.

 

[cdumler7]

Thats awesome man. Congrats. Has nothing to do with knowledge on KC, I am more than qualified to speak on them. Plus Im not a Chiefs fan... What have I said that is so bad here?? Just countering points you and others have made with other thoughts. You dont have to agree but doesnt make them less valid. You guys sure get your panties in a bunch when someone has differing views. LOL

So my having watched every Chiefs game this year, having friends that are Chiefs fans, and even having gone to quite a few games a year doesn't have anything to do with knowledge on the Chiefs yet you use the very same argument to say of why you are qualified to comment on how good/bad the Chiefs are. Hmmmm not sure how this works.

Now having said that my guess is that what each side is arguing really isn't that far off from one another on this but it has taken a very wrong turn because mostly of the way you have come at people on here with a very smug attitude. Earlier in this topic you had said that Alex Smith is top 10 in the league. I kind of wonder where in the top 10 but for me I have him somewhere in the 15-18 range in quarterbacks in the NFL. In reality 10-18 there is not much difference between the top guy in that group compared to the 18th guy in reality. So again we might not be that far off in our view of him. In reality all of us on here have not said that Smith is a horrible quarterback just have said he is not a great quarterback.

Now what have you said that is so wrong...Well maybe you should look at how you have tried to bring about your arguments with Bronco fans. Started off by comparing John Elway to Alex Smith. Maybe not the best way to go about trying to prove your point to Bronco fans that Alex Smith compares to the greatest player to wear a Bronco uniform. Then maybe you shouldn't have then insulted our defense to try and make another point. Then maybe acting like the rest of us have no clue how the game of football is played is another way not to go about trying to get your argument across. Ever heard the saying "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

 

[iknowftbll]

Now what have you said that is so wrong...Well maybe you should look at how you have tried to bring about your arguments with Bronco fans. Started off by comparing John Elway to Alex Smith. Maybe not the best way to go about trying to prove your point to Bronco fans that Alex Smith compares to the greatest player to wear a Bronco uniform. Then maybe you shouldn't have then insulted our defense to try and make another point. Then maybe acting like the rest of us have no clue how the game of football is played is another way not to go about trying to get your argument across. Ever heard the saying "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

That doesn't bother me at all. The man is welcome to compare whoever he likes and believe whatever he likes. But he is the one whining about us not respecting differing viewpoints when it is he himself who turned up the heat on this discussion with post 31.

This was a very calm discussion back and forth to that point. People disagreed and offered differing opinions and all was well. But when we said a few things he did not like is when he began turning nasty by starting a post with, "you guys are out of your minds..." Go back and re-read the 2-3 pages. I just did.

If you disagree with me, fine. But when you tell me I'm out of my mind for something I say or believe, I don't see how you can expect anything other than a more critical look at what you say. And what rmilia says often displays a very shallow knowledge of the game of football. If you are going to post, expect people to slice and dice what you say. If it is worthwhile content, it will be able to withstand the critiques.

Friendly banter is always welcome here, but if you want to actually talk football with Broncos fans, it helps to know the game a little. And if you disagree with people it doesn't take berating them over their opinions to make your point.

 

[cdumler7]

That doesn't bother me at all. The man is welcome to compare whoever he likes and believe whatever he likes. But he is the one whining about us not respecting differing viewpoints when it is he himself who turned up the heat on this discussion with post 31.

This was a very calm discussion back and forth to that point. People disagreed and offered differing opinions and all was well. But when we said a few things he did not like is when he began turning nasty by starting a post with, "you guys are out of your minds..." Go back and re-read the 2-3 pages. I just did.

If you disagree with me, fine. But when you tell me I'm out of my mind for something I say or believe, I don't see how you can expect anything other than a more critical look at what you say. And what rmilia says often displays a very shallow knowledge of the game of football. If you are going to post, expect people to slice and dice what you say. If it is worthwhile content, it will be able to withstand the critiques.

Friendly banter is always welcome here, but if you want to actually talk football with Broncos fans, it helps to know the game a little. And if you disagree with people it doesn't take berating them over their opinions to make your point.

I agree I don't mind friendly banter and the whole comparing John Elway to Alex Smith thing didn't bother me too much just was listing reasons why he was wrong in especially the way he went about trying to present his arguments. I also agree that his arguments have been very surface level at best and well that just won't fly around here. I am very impressed by the football knowledge that is on this board and has definitely caused me to up my game when it comes to some of these conversations. One of the main reasons this is my favorite Bronco board.

 

[iknowftbll]

I agree I don't mind friendly banter and the whole comparing John Elway to Alex Smith thing didn't bother me too much just was listing reasons why he was wrong in especially the way he went about trying to present his arguments. I also agree that his arguments have been very surface level at best and well that just won't fly around here. I am very impressed by the football knowledge that is on this board and has definitely caused me to up my game when it comes to some of these conversations. One of the main reasons this is my favorite Bronco board.

It's actually amusing to me that I call myself "iknowftbll." Of the regular Broncos fans around here I consider myself one of the least knowledgeable. I can still run circles around a lot of people, though.

 

[Morpheus]

LOL OK man Im well aware of what malady means. You guys resort to name calling alot when faced with opposing viewpoints. Interesting. Facts are still facts and the most recent one I have shown is that the Chiefs are very very good at pulling away from teams late in games which is a supposed "concern" people had about their ability to win in the playoffs.

Just being sarcastic since you are taking yourself and meaningless statistics so seriously and inferring absolutes from them. You ignore all the analytical talking points and keep falling back on stats like win loss record and point differential and make generalizations and huge sweeping asumptiopns form them when they are only a piece of the puzzle.

How about some actual analysis?


And how is jokingly asking if you are mentally deficient name calling?

Now when i called you a Jackass. THAT is name calling.

Or do you not know the difference?

 

[Broncosr0k]

Why would you take away the defensive touchdowns?? All counts the same on the scoreboard when it comes to putting teams away. Should we take off ST scores and XP's and FG's as well?? LOL

Why wouldn't you take away DEFENSIVE touchdowns when talking about the OFFENSIVE production of the QB? If a team only scores by returning turnovers for points does that mean the QB is great? Rex Grossman and Trent Dilfer must be in your hall of fame.

Bottom line, neither side is going to paint a complete picture with stats, team or individual. That forces us then to go by what we have seen which is subjective in its own right. So we boil this down to an opinion; is Alex Smith a great QB? You say yes. We say he is good and won't lose games for you but doubt he will win games.

Let me ask this, if Smith is so good and the chiefs defense is so good (giving the offense plenty of possessions) why do the chiefs not win by 14+ points a game? Why does Smith not regularly score 20 points a game? Why does the chiefs' offense not regularly score 30+ points a game?

 

[cdumler7]

It's actually amusing to me that I call myself "iknowftbll." Of the regular Broncos fans around here I consider myself one of the least knowledgeable. I can still run circles around a lot of people, though.

I find you very knowledgeable and appreciate your insight and find your name very fitting. You are right though there is a nice group here that is very impressive. I still have no idea why a Falcons fan who says he doesn't care about Alex Smith is on here going so crazy about Alex Smith and seems genuinely upset that we will not say "Alex Smith is an amazing stupendous quarterback in this league." I could understand if it was a Chiefs homer just going crazy as we all go a little crazy for our own team but a Falcons fan?? Hmm something seems a little fishy about that. Probably just excited somebody actually gave him a bit of attention even if it is to show how idiotic most of his arguments have been.

 

[rmilia1]

So my having watched every Chiefs game this year, having friends that are Chiefs fans, and even having gone to quite a few games a year doesn't have anything to do with knowledge on the Chiefs yet you use the very same argument to say of why you are qualified to comment on how good/bad the Chiefs are. Hmmmm not sure how this works.

Now having said that my guess is that what each side is arguing really isn't that far off from one another on this but it has taken a very wrong turn because mostly of the way you have come at people on here with a very smug attitude. Earlier in this topic you had said that Alex Smith is top 10 in the league. I kind of wonder where in the top 10 but for me I have him somewhere in the 15-18 range in quarterbacks in the NFL. In reality 10-18 there is not much difference between the top guy in that group compared to the 18th guy in reality. So again we might not be that far off in our view of him. In reality all of us on here have not said that Smith is a horrible quarterback just have said he is not a great quarterback.

Now what have you said that is so wrong...Well maybe you should look at how you have tried to bring about your arguments with Bronco fans. Started off by comparing John Elway to Alex Smith. Maybe not the best way to go about trying to prove your point to Bronco fans that Alex Smith compares to the greatest player to wear a Bronco uniform. Then maybe you shouldn't have then insulted our defense to try and make another point. Then maybe acting like the rest of us have no clue how the game of football is played is another way not to go about trying to get your argument across. Ever heard the saying "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

Dude I played college football so Im pretty sure I know the game. As to the Elway to Smith comarison it was ONLY meant to drive home the point that stats dont mean everything since Elways stats sucked but the Broncos were still winning. The first thing used to combat my assertion that he sucked his first 3 years was his record of 23-7 in years 2 aand 3 ( which I knew). I simply asked why it was OK to use his record as means of determining his worth but not OK to do so for Smith. Thats not wrong, it simply suckered people into saying exactly what I wanted them to say and then instead of saying "Hey nice point" I got told how I was still wrong. Im all for debate but in order to debate both sides have to be open to others oopinions. Clearly my opinion of Smith as a top 10 QB ( which IMO he is right now) is not shared by Bronco fans and nothing I use stats wise, common sense wise or whatever will make a difference. You wanted stats to show he can lead KC to late wins and I provided them, they are not used incorrectly they are exactly what I was asked to provide.

 

[Morpheus]

Why would you take away the defensive touchdowns?? All counts the same on the scoreboard when it comes to putting teams away. Should we take off ST scores and XP's and FG's as well?? LOL

It was in response to the notion that the Chiefs offense is capable of keeping up in scoring with the better offensive teams they are going to face down the stretch.

The Chiefs offensive production, PPG and point differential in the 2nd half and the 4th quarter is not as good as the overall stats say it is. The defense helped the cause. Sure, the win is a team effort (Unless you are talking about Alex Smith again, then HE IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE, LOL) but the point is, when the Chiefs face a better offense than the 7 turds they have faced so far, and don't get the defensive scoring to prop up the offense like they have the first half of the season, it is highly unlikely that Alex Smith and the Chiefs offense will be able to score enough points to keep them in games against the Broncos, Colts and Bengals who are surely going to be one of their Playoff opponents.

Look, I'll give you that there are multiple topics being discussed with multiple posters, but try and keep up, eh?