Jimmy Graham to get franchise tag

[Midnightangel]

If Graham wins his appeal and is considered a WR, any safety who has ever covered him and gets the franchise tag placed on him should appeal and demand they get CB compensation.

It will be anarchy. When will the madness stop?

I think the CBA says you have to play that position 2/3 of the time.

If said safety lines up as a CB 2/3 of the time, then he'd get CB money.

 

[Logicallylethal]

To me Jimmy Graham is a 9/10 (maybe even 9.5/10) player as a tight end

But as a wide receiver lined up on the outside he is a 8/10 player

There's certain things that he can still do lined up as the x receiver but there are certain limitations with his speed and route running that make him a less effective player as an outside receiver than a tight end

In my opinion with his limitations he'd be a 700-800 yard guy playing full time wr but as a tight end he is all pro and puts up 1200-1300 with 13-15 tds because he's able to constantly exploit mismatches

 

[AngryNiner]

I am so tired of players whining about the franchise tag, especially on social media. Dont cry to me about the millions of dollars you have in the bank. Okay.
I understand that its disappointing but I think you will survive.

 

[AngryNiner]

I am so tired of players whining about the franchise tag, especially on social media. Dont cry to me about the millions of dollars you have in the bank. Okay.
I understand that its disappointing but I think you will survive.

mmm... I just re-read his tweet about receiving the tag and it doesnt seem as whiny as I first took it to be. But my point still stands. Tired of the players bitching about the Franchise tag. Unless you have been tagged like, 3 years in a row, I dont want to hear about it.

 

[RoboticDreams]

I think JDM and Midnight are missing out on one key thing. The very reason the Saints line Graham up in the slot so much, is because they know he will be facing LBS, safeties or nickel corners. That doesn't make him a wr. If they didn't think they could get a mismatch out there, they'd line him up as a normal te. It's a strategic thing and nothing more. They don't think he could beat the better corners in the league or he'd have already been designated a wideout and would play outside.

 

[Midnightangel]

I think JDM and Midnight are missing out on one key thing. The very reason the Saints line Graham up in the slot so much, is because they know he will be facing LBS, safeties or nickel corners. That doesn't make him a wr. If they didn't think they could get a mismatch out there, they'd line him up as a normal te. It's a strategic thing and nothing more. They don't think he could beat the better corners in the league or he'd have already been designated a wideout and would play outside.

We're not missing out on it as it's a point that's been made before.

And it's irrelevant.

67% of the time he plays from the slot or WR position - so according to the CBA - if you're going to tag him you have to do so as a WR.

 

[SonnyCID]

We're not missing out on it as it's a point that's been made before.

And it's irrelevant.

67% of the time he plays from the slot or WR position - so according to the CBA - if you're going to tag him you have to do so as a WR.

If he initially lined up at WR I would agree because opponents could play him like a WR. But that's not what he does. He lines up at TE and then motions out when there is mismatch. That's not a WR in my book, that's still a TE.

 

[JDM]

I think JDM and Midnight are missing out on one key thing. The very reason the Saints line Graham up in the slot so much, is because they know he will be facing LBS, safeties or nickel corners. That doesn't make him a wr. If they didn't think they could get a mismatch out there, they'd line him up as a normal te. It's a strategic thing and nothing more. They don't think he could beat the better corners in the league or he'd have already been designated a wideout and would play outside.

He does already play outside. Designating him literally affects nothing but recognition and the franchise tag. It has no impact whatsoever in game.

 

[Midnightangel]

If he initially lined up at WR I would agree because opponents could play him like a WR. But that's not what he does. He lines up at TE and then motions out when there is mismatch. That's not a WR in my book, that's still a TE.

Well, if that's what you're going to then you have to treat him more as a TE and stop using him as a WR.

You can't have it both ways on this, Sonny.

If he's putting up WR numbers, then he should be getting WR money.

If you want to INSIST on treating him as a TE, then make sure he doesn't get those stats.

 

[RoboticDreams]

It's difficult to make bullheaded people see things for what they really are. If he couldn't line up and have a mismatch against a LB or slower, less talented DB, he would literally never line up anywhere but as a TE.

He isn't a receiver and shouldn't be designated as one. If he lined up as a wideout he would get shutdown, therefore they pick and choose the way they use him. He's not a very good TE, overall. He's subpar at blocking. That's another reason why they don't use him as a TE as much as they should. The dude can't block.

Gronk is a real TE, he blocks as well as runs good routes and has excellent hands. Jimmy is a hybrid, he's not a TE nor a WR. Maybe they can find some common ground somewhere in the middle.

 

[JDM]

It doesn't matter. He lines up where he does, and they have to pay him at the position they play him at.

 

[RoboticDreams]

It doesn't matter. He lines up where he does, and they have to pay him at the position they play him at.

If he actually lines up there, and doesn't motion there the majority of the time then maybe.

 

[WizardHawk]

Well, if that's what you're going to then you have to treat him more as a TE and stop using him as a WR.

You can't have it both ways on this, Sonny.

If he's putting up WR numbers, then he should be getting WR money.

If you want to INSIST on treating him as a TE, then make sure he doesn't get those stats.

It doesn't matter. He lines up where he does, and they have to pay him at the position they play him at.

Well, not everyone who gets paid to cover these things agrees with you so maybe it's not quite as cut and dry as you are both trying to portray it to be.

Jimmy Graham and the New Orleans Saints are both right - ESPN

If the modern TE job description is to sometimes block, and sometimes receive then we are not going to start sub dividing the job based on number of snaps you do each function. Doesn't make any sense to do so. He isn't the only TE in the game that gets a significant number of passing plays, he just happened to get the most out of it.

TE's receive passes. It's part of their job description. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. He is a modern TE with both blocking and receiving skills and use. Sorry, that's what your position pays.


Now Schefter also suggests the Seahawks should go after him and I just can't see why. I'm not saying he isn't a great TE, one of the tops in the game, but not only giving up 2 first round draft picks, but that price tag when they are already trying to find ways to pay off all of their other home grown guys doesn't seem realistic. They can't give huge paydays to Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, and some high priced TE. Add the need to at least try and keep Bennett and I don't see where they could go after him. Seattle isn't in position to go pay crazy money to FA's or go after guys on tags.

 

[JDM]

Catching passes isn't why he's a WR. Where he lines up is.

 

[WizardHawk]

And he isn't the first TE in the league that lined up outside either. He is a hybrid, but still a TE.

 

[Midnightangel]

Let's settle this...

If you're going line him up at the slot position and use him as a WR over 66% of the time, then pay him as a WR.

If you only want to pay him as a TE, then only use him as a TE. No more moving him out to the slot or lining him up at the WR position.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[WizardHawk]

Let's settle this...

If you're going line him up at the slot position and use him as a WR over 66% of the time, then pay him as a WR.

If you only want to pay him as a TE, then only use him as a TE. No more moving him out to the slot or lining him up at the WR position.

You can't have it both ways.

So you now want to force teams to not use their weapons wherever any given play gives them the advantage?

They line Harvin up at tailback at times. Should that be banned or start tracking those and adjust his salary accordingly? What about hybrid DE's that sometimes line up at LB? Hybrids exist and always have.

Um, no. They should use him wherever they feel it is most advantageous to do so on every play. At best you might argue that they could look at creating a new hybrid position that pays somewhere between the two, but for now he is a TE that gets used all over the field. End of story.

 

[Midnightangel]

So you now want to force teams to not use their weapons wherever any given play gives them the advantage?

They line Harvin up at tailback at times. Should that be banned or start tracking those and adjust his salary accordingly? What about hybrid DE's that sometimes line up at LB? Hybrids exist and always have.

Um, no. They should use him wherever they feel it is most advantageous to do so on every play. At best you might argue that they could look at creating a new hybrid position that pays somewhere between the two, but for now he is a TE that gets used all over the field. End of story.

So you think it's OK for a team to have it both ways, then?

You can pay him like a TE, but use him like a WR?

Please, explain to me how that's fair.

If you're going to use him in whatever way you can to get a win - fine, then PAY the man accordingly. It's really that simple.

 

[WizardHawk]

Gonzalez had more than one thousand yard seasons as well and was never paid as a WR. Honestly it isn't much different lining up at TE or the slot, both are being covered by LB's or a nickle.

If he doesn't want to be paid like a TE then switch to WR and stop being a TE.

As I said, there are other examples of players that play somewhere between one position and another. Show me precedent where one was paid out of position before otherwise this is moot and not going to go anywhere. He can be as pissed off as he likes, but it isn't going to get him a raise.

 

[Midnightangel]

Gonzalez had more than one thousand yard seasons as well and was never paid as a WR. Honestly it isn't much different lining up at TE or the slot, both are being covered by LB's or a nickle.

If he doesn't want to be paid like a TE then switch to WR and stop being a TE.

As I said, there are other examples of players that play somewhere between one position and another. Show me precedent where one was paid out of position before otherwise this is moot and not going to go anywhere. He can be as pissed off as he likes, but it isn't going to get him a raise.

Uh, yeah - it actually is.

HE determines what contract he signs - right? The Saints can offer what they want but unless Graham agrees, it doesn't matter.

This was a bad move by the Saints IMHO. It just made the situation worse.

They want to use him as a WR but pay him like a TE. I'd be pissed about that as well - as would you.

He's a TE only in name. He lines up at the slot 67% of the time.

Personally, I hope someone picks him up. Granted, that's doubtful but it COULD happen. The Packers could really use him, just as an example.