Jimmy Graham to get franchise tag

[SonnyCID]

If they're lining up the QB at the RB position most of the time, they might want to consider it.

He's listed as a TE but lining up as a WR most of the time and has the yardage, TD's, etc to go along with that.

It's like the Saints want to have it both ways....they want him to have the productivity of a WR but only want to pay him like a TE. That's not right, man.

He's the leading receiver on their team and they should pay him accordingly. Why should a WR that produces LESS on the field than him get paid MORE money?

The Saints should tell him, "ok, we're going to tag you as a WR. And you are going to be our #1 and line up outside every single play against the best cover guys and if your production doesn't dip then you can have the leverage needed to demand a top receiver contract". Too bad neither the Saints or Graham would go for that.

 

[Logicallylethal]

And that brings us back to why should a WR that puts up less numbers get paid more money?

Simple...because they line up and beat the opposing team's top corner every week. Jimmy Graham doesn't do that

 

[Midnightangel]

Simple...because they line up and beat the opposing team's top corner every week. Jimmy Graham doesn't do that

So you're paying more money for less productivity?

Then shouldn't QB's that play a schedule with a lot of tough defenses get paid more than a QB that plays against a lot of soft defenses?

Going by that, Tom Brady is over paid since he plays a lot of soft defenses and Andy Dalton deserves a LOT more money.

 

[Midnightangel]

Salary, regardless of position, is tied to productivity.

For each position there are various ways of measuring that. If we're going to tie how much you make to how much you get paid (understanding that the more productive you are the better chance you give your team of winning, which translates to more people coming to games, leading to more money for the team/league) then we have to not get so hung up on where a person lines up on the field.

If you had a FB that ran for over 10K a year but the RB runs for less - who should get more money?

 

[Logicallylethal]

So you're paying more money for less productivity?

Then shouldn't QB's that play a schedule with a lot of tough defenses get paid more than a QB that plays against a lot of soft defenses?

Going by that, Tom Brady is over paid since he plays a lot of soft defenses and Andy Dalton deserves a LOT more money.

Jimmy Graham and Wes Welker would not put up the same numbers lined up on the outside. Where you line up on the field and who you line up against make a big difference. A tight end, slot receiver and outside receiver all have different responsibilities and run different routes.

The NFL values the outside receiver more, because there is more required of them to be able to produce successfully in the league. Hence why they are paid more.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Salary, regardless of position, is tied to productivity.

For each position there are various ways of measuring that. If we're going to tie how much you make to how much you get paid (understanding that the more productive you are the better chance you give your team of winning, which translates to more people coming to games, leading to more money for the team/league) then we have to not get so hung up on where a person lines up on the field.

If you had a FB that ran for over 10K a year but the RB runs for less - who should get more money?

Not true...in every sport certain positions will always be valued more and thus those players will get paid more

 

[Midnightangel]

Not true...in every sport certain positions will always be valued more and thus those players will get paid more

You're measured by position, yes?

That is, all QB's are measured against the best QB's in the league. Ditto with other positions.

In Graham's case we have a TE that puts up WR stats.

 

[SonnyCID]

If a good RB is also a good receiver out of the backfield, should he get paid as a RB AND as a WR?

 

[Logicallylethal]

You're measured by position, yes?

That is, all QB's are measured against the best QB's in the league. Ditto with other positions.

In Graham's case we have a TE that puts up WR stats.

Here's my question

Do you think Jimmy Graham would put up the same numbers lined up as an x wide receiver going up against the opposing team's top corner every game?

I say no

Aqib Talib also says no

 

[JDM]

Literally the only number that matters is 67. 67% of the time he is lined up at WR. His production isn't relevant. He is due the franchise tag at the position he plays. 2/3 of the time that's WR.

 

[SonnyCID]

Literally the only number that matters is 67. 67% of the time he is lined up at WR. His production isn't relevant. He is due the franchise tag at the position he plays. 2/3 of the time that's WR.

He may be lined up outside but he is still covered by LBs, safeties and nickels.

 

[JDM]

That doesn't mean anything. The saints don't control what defenses do. They play him at WR. That's what they have to franchise him as.

 

[SonnyCID]

That doesn't mean anything. The saints don't control what defenses do. They play him at WR. That's what they have to franchise him as.

Actually it means that the Saints split him out wide when they see a mismatch, not that he naturally belongs there. If he did, they would line him up against the better cover corners, but they don't.

 

[darken65]

Different thread...Same debate about Graham...TE or WR. He is a TE but for those who have an issue with that at least you can be happy that he is franchised with a non-exclusive tag.

 

[Midnightangel]

If a good RB is also a good receiver out of the backfield, should he get paid as a RB AND as a WR?

If 65% of what he does is catch passes out of the backfield and his production on that is he puts up numbers equivalent to TE's in yardage and TD's he should get a lot more than he'd get for being JUST a RB.

 

[SonnyCID]

If 65% of what he does is catch passes out of the backfield and his production on that is he puts up numbers equivalent to TE's in yardage and TD's he should get a lot more than he'd get for being JUST a RB.

So I guess when LT led the league in rushing and receptions he should have leveraged that in to a top receiver contract and a top RB contract.

Graham catches a lot of passes, and they are against LBs, safeties and nickel corners. I don't care where you line up, those are TE duties.

 

[JDM]

Actually it means that the Saints split him out wide when they see a mismatch, not that he naturally belongs there. If he did, they would line him up against the better cover corners, but they don't.

They don't control who covers him. He doesn't see corners much because he is too big for most of them to cover effectively.

The Patriots put Jamie Collins in man coverage fairly consistently against wide receivers on the colts in their playoff matchup. Does that turn them into tight ends too?

 

[SonnyCID]

They don't control who covers him. He doesn't see corners much because he is too big for most of them to cover effectively.

The Patriots put Jamie Collins in man coverage fairly consistently against wide receivers on the colts in their playoff matchup. Does that turn them into tight ends too?

No, that just turns them in to receivers that are not very good.

And they may not control who is on Graham, but they can exploit it. They get to the line and Brees sees Graham against a LB, so he splits him out wide, now he is in space against a mismatch. That may impress some because its officially outside, but that doesn't make him a WR in my book. But this happens all the time with NO, teams don't do this with WRs. If they did, why wouldn't CJ, Green, Bryant or Marshall just line up in the slot all the time? Because THEY are #1 receivers, and #1 receivers don't need gimmicks and tricks to produce. They line up in the same spot every game, across from the other teams best cover guy, and beat them.

 

[JDM]

Whether he's a number one or good isn't relevant. All that is is where he plays, and he plays WR. If they want to franchise him that's the number they have to do it at.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Whether he's a number one or good isn't relevant. All that is is where he plays, and he plays WR. If they want to franchise him that's the number they have to do it at.

I guess we'll know soon.