Jimmy Graham to get franchise tag

[fordman84]

Won't work...the Franchise Tag is recognized by the player not the position when it comes to the 2nd year. So even if they try to switch him to a different position it still has to go up the 20% or so from the previous year.

makes perfect sense, thanks.


FYI, your next post is #3000.

 

[JDM]

The WR tag would be more than a 20% bump anyways, I would think.

 

[Money]

Won't work...the Franchise Tag is recognized by the player not the position when it comes to the 2nd year. So even if they try to switch him to a different position it still has to go up the 20% or so from the previous year.

Correct. The team itself does not even designate a position when tagging a player. The position is determined by the league.

 

[milker2324]

What would happen if, the next time Brees tried to send him out to the slot, Graham refused to go?

"I'm a Tight End. Let's look at that word...that means I'm an END that stays TIGHT on the line. I'll run patterns from this position and this postion only. Other than that, I'll block my ass off".

The Saints would come UN-GLUED!

Why?

Because it would kill their offense. He'd still produce, just not as much. So Drew Brees just lost about 800 yards of offense and 8 TD's or so. I'm sure that would translate into a few less W's as well.

But hey, he's a TE now in the truest sense of the word. So feel free to pay him JUST like a TE.

that is because he is a terrible blocker.

 

[Davis_Mike]

As I said previously, the Tight End position has evolved over the last few years. No longer is the position mainly lining up at the line of scrimmage & not expected to be a major contributor in the passing game. Just because a tight end lines up in the slot, that does not make them a WR. It makes them a TE who lined up in the slot. The same thing applies to a RB that lines up anywhere but the backfield. Where they lineup should be irrelevant.

 

[JDM]

But it's not. The CBA states that where they play the majority of their snaps is their position.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

But it's not. The CBA states that where they play the majority of their snaps is their position.

that doesn't explain whether it is where they 1st line up or where they are when the ball is snapped. need to be a bit more clear before issuing that statement. because the way I see that is he would be a TE.

If a RB starts in the back field & then motions out to see what the defense is gonna do. Well you need the "RB" position to make that happen. Even though at the snap he is at a receivers position. The play still needed the running backs position to make it happen.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Um...whatever.

Now let's compare who else is on your roster....

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Jimmy Graham 86 1215 14.1 56 16

Pierre Thomas 77 513 6.7 29 3

Marques Colston 75 943 12.6 35 5

Darren Sproles 71 604 8.5 48 2


Looks like there's a pretty big jump between Graham and everyone else. In fact, I'm looking at your #1 'stud' of a WR and I'm seeing Graham smoke him for almost 300 extra yards, more yards per catch and 3 times the TD's.

Care to explain why you TE is out performing your #1 'stud' of a WR?

don't know why you keep bringing up stats? I understand what JDM is trying to claim, he is just unclear what their are actually stating.

you keep bringing up stats. Which has nothing to do with a franchise tag. Plenty to do with negotiating but not a franchise tag.
When RBs are the #1 WRs on their teams should they get #1 WR money? When Witten has over 100 catches in a year & has been the #1 WR in catches several times, no one disputes he is still a TE.
Stats has nothing to do with whether you are one position or not.

BTW he claims he is a TE when he goes to the probowl every year. IF the NFL claims he is something else so be it. But no way he should be allowed to suddenly claim he is a WR. By his own admission he claims to be a TE.

As far as TE fran tags being so much lower. That will change will the contracts of Gronk, Graham & others as their contracts change. When he does sign his contract it will be like a WR, but that doesn't mean they should change the fran tags on the position for him. The fran tag is a business decision. it isn't a way to slight his importance to the team. BTW both sides are trying to have it both ways. Not just the Saints.

Like I said. I get JDM's argument on this. Just don't agree with him at this time. But you have made a horrible argument on this in my book. Stats mean nothing to the decision of if he is a WR or a TE.

But if you could make a case if you like about Slot receivers not being Wide receivers, but actually being tight ends if you like (since they never line up wide & teams often don't think they are worth top wr money no matter what their production is)

 

[JDM]

He doesn't claim to be a tight end by the way. He's been posturing for this position for a while, and correctly so given his usage.

 

[Davis_Mike]

He doesn't claim to be a tight end by the way. He's been posturing for this position for a while, and correctly so given his usage.

Accepting pro bowl & all-pro honors for being a TE is an admission by default that he is indeed a TE.

 

[JDM]

It's not something you can "accept" or decline. He has no say whatsoever in that.

 

[Davis_Mike]

It's not something you can "accept" or decline. He has no say whatsoever in that.

Sure you can. You can choose not to cash those checks & accept the trophy/plaque.

 

[JDM]

How does that change the fact that he is considered an all pro? It doesn't. You can't turn it down. It's not possible.


For the record, do you know for a fact that he did do either of those things, or are you just assuming because he was voted an all pro?

 

[Schmoopy1000]

How does that change the fact that he is considered an all pro? It doesn't. You can't turn it down. It's not possible.


For the record, do you know for a fact that he did do either of those things, or are you just assuming because he was voted an all pro?

spin it how you like. He claims/accepts being a tight end any time it suits him favorably.
Being an All-Pro "tight end"
He would not be an All-Pro "Wide Receiver"

 

[JDM]

He didn't claim anything. He has made it very clear over an extended period of time that he is a WR.

He has no control whatsoever over recognition. None.

 

[Money]

He didn't claim anything. He has made it very clear over an extended period of time that he is a WR.

He has no control whatsoever over recognition. None.

He's not a very good one if opposing defenses feel like they can use a safety or linebacker to cover him.

It's a shame...he would have been one helluva a TE. My guess would have been a HOF deserving TE.

 

[Naughtymax]

spin it how you like. He claims/accepts being a tight end any time it suits him favorably.
Being an All-Pro "tight end"
He would not be an All-Pro "Wide Receiver"

Yes, he would. 15th in yards but far and away first in TD. 2nd team behind Johnson and Gordon, along with Green and Thomas. Brown would lose out.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Yes, he would. 15th in yards but far and away first in TD. 2nd team behind Johnson and Gordon, along with Green and Thomas. Brown would lose out.

I said All-pro not Pro-bowl.
There isnt 15 All-pro WRs in a year.