Jimmy Graham to get franchise tag

[WizardHawk]

He doesn't line up outside? He generally lines up at the TE position and them motions into the slot. He's not facing coverage that an actual wideout does. I think they will meet in the middle somewhere. Probably around 9 million or so.

And he isn't the first TE in the game to do so, but you aren't going to get through to her. Some people on this site are stubborn just because and will keep on fighting long after their tired and empty points have been shot down. Reason doesn't seem to work with those individuals.

 

[Midnightangel]

And he isn't the first TE in the game to do so, but you aren't going to get through to her. Some people on this site are stubborn just because and will keep on fighting long after their tired and empty points have been shot down. Reason doesn't seem to work with those individuals.

And you have no idea that this is the opinion I have of you as well.

It's not that hard to understand.

They use him like a WR, pay him like a WR.

He's the best receiver on his team by far.

So you're telling me that the guys that put up half the yards and TD's he does are worth twice as much?

You call that logic? Really?

1,200 yards, 16 TD's and he's top 10 in the league for both plays over 20 yards and 40 yards.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

He doesn't line up outside? He generally lines up at the TE position and them motions into the slot. He's not facing coverage that an actual wideout does. I think they will meet in the middle somewhere. Probably around 9 million or so.

I put up the stats for Graham -- he lined up at TE 33% of the time and 67% of the time it was in the slot or out wide. As far as who is covering him -- who cares? The CBA states the positional tag used will be determined by the position you lined up as the majority of the time. In Graham's case -- he was lined up as a WR in 2013 much more than TE.

There is no meeting in the middle, unless NO gives him an extension. He will be tagged as either a WR or TE. Due to the wording of the CBA -- he will have to be tagged as a WR.

 

[JDM]

Midnight, you're distracting from anything relevant by bringing up stats. Even if he had terrible stats, if he lined up at WR consistently that's what matters. Likewise, if he doubled Megatrons receiving records with 50 TDs but spent the majority of his snaps actually lined up at tight end he would be a tight end. All that matters is that he lined up at WR 2/3 of the time.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Damn you guys are still going at it with this?

I get what Midnight is saying. He's saying that players should get paid based on production and production alone.

What everyone else is saying is that each position is paid differently, because obviously like any sport certain positions are more valuable and thus they get paid more.

Now...it's TRUE that Jimmy Graham "lines up" as a wr 66 % of the time. BUT not all "wrs" are paid the same. Slot receivers are paid less than outside receivers simply, because their job, responsibilities and routes they run are different.

There's a reason why Wes Welker despite putting up incredible numbers has never been paid like a #1 wr. The reason? It's because Welker can't line up out there against the Richard Sherman, Patrick Petersons, etc. and consistently win.

And the same goes with Jimmy Graham. Everyone here (except a couple) are in agreement that if Jimmy Graham were to line up 100 % of the time as the "#1 wr" on the outside...he would not put up the same numbers.

Now if you want to make the argument that a receiving tight end should get paid more then we can have that discussion. But to say that Jimmy Graham should get paid like a #1 wr because he is a #1 wr then that's wrong.

He's the "leading receiver" and the "go to receiver" on the saints...but he's not the #1 wr that lines up on the outside...that's Colston.

 

[JDM]

And none of that matters in terms of the franchise designation.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Now...it's TRUE that Jimmy Graham "lines up" as a wr 66 % of the time. BUT not all "wrs" are paid the same. Slot receivers are paid less than outside receivers simply, because their job, responsibilities and routes they run are different.

Logically -- it doesn't matter if he lined up in the slot 99% of the time and on the outside 1% of the time. If a team is going to franchise the player -- they will be tagged as a WR.

 

[Money]

TY.

That's what I was asking for.

But class is hardly dismissed on this...

It sets the stage for a grievance to be filed by Graham and the NFLPA arguing that, based on the language of the labor deal, Graham is actually a receiver.

The league’s release even quotes the relevant language from the Collective Bargaining Agreement, which states that the tender will be based on “the position . . . at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year.”

Graham will argue that he lined up more as receiver than as a tight end in 2013. The Saints will argue that tight ends routinely line up in the slot or split wide, but that this doesn’t make them something other than tight ends, since only tight ends line up tight to the tackle.

In other words, the Saints hope to persuade the System Arbitrator to find that, when Graham lines up in the slot or split wide, he’s still participating in those plays as a tight end.

This fight is just beginning and precedent COULD be set depending upon how long this goes on.

The Saints made a mistake on this. The pissed off a man they want to resign and he might jack up his rate an extra amount just to make a point.

And as some point, he might decide to leave NO. Are the Saints really going to franchise him from now until he retires? I don't think they can franchise a player that many times in a row.

At some point they're going to have to give him what he wants - or he'll take his show on the road. Atlanta? Green Bay?

I definitely agree with most of this post. This is a unique situation that has developed because TE salaries simply have not caught up to (yet) the evolution of the position. The league should simply combine TE's with WR's.

I also believe it is in the best interest of the Saints to make Graham an offer he can't refuse. That is exactly what the Ravens did with Suggs in 2008.

 

[Midnightangel]

Damn you guys are still going at it with this?

I get what Midnight is saying. He's saying that players should get paid based on production and production alone.

What everyone else is saying is that each position is paid differently, because obviously like any sport certain positions are more valuable and thus they get paid more.

Now...it's TRUE that Jimmy Graham "lines up" as a wr 66 % of the time. BUT not all "wrs" are paid the same. Slot receivers are paid less than outside receivers simply, because their job, responsibilities and routes they run are different.

There's a reason why Wes Welker despite putting up incredible numbers has never been paid like a #1 wr. The reason? It's because Welker can't line up out there against the Richard Sherman, Patrick Petersons, etc. and consistently win.

And the same goes with Jimmy Graham. Everyone here (except a couple) are in agreement that if Jimmy Graham were to line up 100 % of the time as the "#1 wr" on the outside...he would not put up the same numbers.

Now if you want to make the argument that a receiving tight end should get paid more then we can have that discussion. But to say that Jimmy Graham should get paid like a #1 wr because he is a #1 wr then that's wrong.

He's the "leading receiver" and the "go to receiver" on the saints...but he's not the #1 wr that lines up on the outside...that's Colston.

Slight correction: I'm a she, not a he. But yes, you pay by production.

I understand that you pay also by position as well.

So, WR's make more than TE's. I get that.

That being said when the TE puts up better numbers than the WR's, you either have to give the TE a raise or take money away from the WR's. Either the TE isn't getting enough or the WR's are getting to much.

It's not right to have the TE out performing the WR's and they still get more money by quite a bit.

My point is simple, if you're going to use him as a WR, then you have to tag him as a WR.

I'm not saying he's worth Megatron money on a new deal but you can certainly give him money that's more reflective of a WR than a TE.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Slight correction: I'm a she, not a he. But yes, you pay by production.

I understand that you pay also by position as well.

So, WR's make more than TE's. I get that.

That being said when the TE puts up better numbers than the WR's, you either have to give the TE a raise or take money away from the WR's. Either the TE isn't getting enough or the WR's are getting to much.

It's not right to have the TE out performing the WR's and they still get more money by quite a bit.

My point is simple, if you're going to use him as a WR, then you have to tag him as a WR.

I'm not saying he's worth Megatron money on a new deal but you can certainly give him money that's more reflective of a WR than a TE.

I think JG is one of the top OFC players regardless of position, but his position is a TE and he should be paid like one of the top TEs in the league...he's not a WR. One reason his production is so high is match ups. As some have already said, he's not drawing the DEF #1 cover option because that player is covering a WR more than likely.

Franchise...NO understands this player's importance to the team...this tag more or less buys them time to get a long term deal done...if he and his agent would accept #1 TE money, a long term deal probably would've been done already.

Don't blame them for trying, but the Saints were smart not to yield to that.

 

[Midnightangel]

I think JG is one of the top OFC players regardless of position, but his position is a TE and he should be paid like one of the top TEs in the league...he's not a WR. One reason his production is so high is match ups. As some have already said, he's not drawing the DEF #1 cover option because that player is covering a WR more than likely.

Franchise...NO understands this player's importance to the team...this tag more or less buys them time to get a long term deal done...if he and his agent would accept #1 TE money, a long term deal probably would've been done already.

Don't blame them for trying, but the Saints were smart not to yield to that.

I disagree and I think the Saints screwed up by slapping him with this. It's only going to anger him.

I think a deal gets done in mid-summer and I think he'll get money more in the ball park of a WR than a TE.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I disagree and I think the Saints screwed up by slapping him with this. It's only going to anger him.

I think a deal gets done in mid-summer and I think he'll get money more in the ball park of a WR than a TE.

No doubt he's ticked, but imo his camp brought it on themselves by trying to get WR money. With the clock ticking...NO did what any team would do. That won't have any bearing on a long term deal imo...he'd be foolish to react out of spite.

Top TE money and WR money is pretty close already...there is still a nice gap between top WR money and top TE money...if he gets Mike Wallace money I would be very surprised...I expect 48 to 51 with at least 20 guaranteed.

 

[Brees#1]

It's hard to say that someone that put up his stats 'let you down'. He's far and away the best receiver on your team.

Did we go to the superbowl? Did we not give the division away? Did he miss catches in the playoffs? The OL had improved in postseason but Hill was outplaying Graham. We don't need him more than he needs Brees. Brees makes our studs and he'll make more.

 

[fearthepelicans]

NFL Teams May Try to Acquire Saints TE Jimmy Graham, but He's Not Worth the Cost | Bleacher Report

Just thought this was worth posting

 

[Midnightangel]

Did we go to the superbowl? Did we not give the division away? Did he miss catches in the playoffs? The OL had improved in postseason but Hill was outplaying Graham. We don't need him more than he needs Brees. Brees makes our studs and he'll make more.

Um...whatever.

Now let's compare who else is on your roster....

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Jimmy Graham 86 1215 14.1 56 16

Pierre Thomas 77 513 6.7 29 3

Marques Colston 75 943 12.6 35 5

Darren Sproles 71 604 8.5 48 2


Looks like there's a pretty big jump between Graham and everyone else. In fact, I'm looking at your #1 'stud' of a WR and I'm seeing Graham smoke him for almost 300 extra yards, more yards per catch and 3 times the TD's.

Care to explain why you TE is out performing your #1 'stud' of a WR?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

NFL Teams May Try to Acquire Saints TE Jimmy Graham, but He's Not Worth the Cost | Bleacher Report

Just thought this was worth posting

The article does shed some light on a few things if you're just looking at stats. JG is a great player, but I would be very leery of signing him to a big FA contract, plus the draft picks. There are a few in the league, but it will be interesting to see if teams start going after that tweener kind of LB...undersized for a normal LB, but the speed of a S.

PIT did sign a guy like that, Spence, but he blew his knee out badly and we've yet to see him play in a game.

 

[Brees#1]

Um...whatever.

Now let's compare who else is on your roster....

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Jimmy Graham 86 1215 14.1 56 16

Pierre Thomas 77 513 6.7 29 3

Marques Colston 75 943 12.6 35 5

Darren Sproles 71 604 8.5 48 2


Looks like there's a pretty big jump between Graham and everyone else. In fact, I'm looking at your #1 'stud' of a WR and I'm seeing Graham smoke him for almost 300 extra yards, more yards per catch and 3 times the TD's.

Care to explain why you TE is out performing your #1 'stud' of a WR?

If Brees has the tightend to block for him again, like Shockey did, he is back to throwing less ints and more touchdowns to four or five different receivers a game and also the defense getting lots of rest.

 

[Midnightangel]

If Brees has the tightend to block for him again, like Shockey did, he is back to throwing less ints and more touchdowns to four or five different receivers a game and also the defense getting lots of rest.

Really? All that from just having the TE stay in and block, huh?

Looking at the stats on it, Brees would have a hard time finding anyone since he'd be losing his leading receiver. 1,200 yards and 16 TD's is a lot to try to replace.

 

[fordman84]

Hey guys, lazy here so not wanting to read this entire thread or try to read the NFL CBA, so here goes my question:

Can the Saints tag Jimmy this year as a TE and then next year as a WR and not have it count as a "repeater franchise" tag or whatever they call it? You know how the second year franchise tag goes up, but what if they tag him at a different position?

 

[cdumler7]

Hey guys, lazy here so not wanting to read this entire thread or try to read the NFL CBA, so here goes my question:

Can the Saints tag Jimmy this year as a TE and then next year as a WR and not have it count as a "repeater franchise" tag or whatever they call it? You know how the second year franchise tag goes up, but what if they tag him at a different position?

Won't work...the Franchise Tag is recognized by the player not the position when it comes to the 2nd year. So even if they try to switch him to a different position it still has to go up the 20% or so from the previous year.