Geno Staying put

[JMR]

The problem I have with how people are advocating the Hawks cap space it that it's not sustainable. The Saints have been pushing their cap issues down the road for years and right now they have over 10% of their cap in voided contracts and they're still nearly $60 million over the cap at the moment. They've put themselves in a position to constantly devote more and more of their cap to voided contracts to save cap money in the current year and it's killing their ability to field a competent team.

Tampa Bay is even worse, with $50m in voided contracts and also nearly $60 m over the cap. Jacksonville is $30m over and will now have to get creative - and they haven't even had to really pay their young QB yet.

Yes, teams try to find ways to creatively stay under the cap - but the current method is to do it by playing players now, paying for them later. Not to mention that post June 1 cuts tend to really screw with a player's ability to get a comparable contract - so kiss the Seattle as a destination for free agents completely goodbye.

People are advocating mortgaging the future for Geno Smith.

No, no one is advocating mortgaging the future for Geno Smith. Not a single person here. This strawman just needs to die already.

And pushing some money to the future IS sustainable if it's done in moderation because the cap continues to go up. It's also just the cost of doing business if you want to sign players that have a market. A dollar in cap space today is more expensive than a dollar in cap space next year. Being able to push some of that cost to the future is like getting an interest-free loan. You can still get yourself in trouble, but you can also leverage your capital better if you make good choices. Moderation is the key. Definitely sustainable.

 

[blstoker]

No, no one is advocating mortgaging the future for Geno Smith. Not a single person here. This strawman just needs to die already.

You've done it multiple times. It's your entire argument. It's the only thing you have - and continue to - advocate for. Pushing north of 10 million into future seasons just to keep Geno Smith for an extra year or two is not what I would call good cap management.

It's interesting that people who think Geno played like a top 10 QB this year won't look to be paid like a top 10 QB are upset that others think Geno won't be a top 10 QB moving forward so shouldn't be paid like a top 10 QB.

 

[Anointed One]

So 16 + 24+14=54 million for a journeyman QB

View attachment 321288

From that stat pic, it appears the Hawks have been the perfect fit for him, no? Night and day stats first 2 years w/ Jets vs last 2 years w/ Hawks...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

From that stat pic, it appears the Hawks have been the perfect fit for him, no? Night and day stats first 2 years w/ Jets vs last 2 years w/ Hawks...

I agree... He should definitely lose his job... A 10yr vet, 3 yr on the Hawks and he plays like that? There are so many backups, young guys i'd rather see play than Geno... He still can't read a defense... It's painfully obvious that Geno is holding this team back right now... He hands off well to our RB's, that's about it...

^^^ from 2021

 

[wilwhite]

So 16 + 24+14=54 million for a journeyman QB

View attachment 321288

Yeah, but hawk's plan isn't exactly crippling. You can still improve the defense this year.

Geno will probably get offered more elsewhere.

 

[JMR]

You've done it multiple times. It's your entire argument. It's the only thing you have - and continue to - advocate for. Pushing north of 10 million into future seasons just to keep Geno Smith for an extra year or two is not what I would call good cap management.

If $10M is too much to push to a cap year 3 years in the future, then I guess you only want the team to either perpetually sign a journeyman on a 1 or 2 year deal or just keep churning through QBs on rookie contracts. You can never land or re-sign an established good QB who has a market without spreading out some money to soften the cap hit in the near term years. Andy Dalton, here we come!

It's interesting that people who think Geno played like a top 10 QB this year won't look to be paid like a top 10 QB are upset that others think Geno won't be a top 10 QB moving forward so shouldn't be paid like a top 10 QB.

Well, it's just laughable to think he should only get bottom 1/3 starter money, which is where some of you are. What you feel should happen and what is likely to happen are not the same things.

 

[flyerhawk]

So 16 + 24+14=54 million for a journeyman QB

View attachment 321288

Well I don't think Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow are available. So we have to work with the players available.

I have no idea what you think posting Geno's career stats was supposed to prove. I get it. You prefer that we spend Geno's cap money of someone else and have Marcus Mariota or someone like him as our starter. I prefer that we don't suck next season if avoidable. I also don't care much for the notion of not signing someone and hoping that one of the top 3 QBs drops to us and draft whoever is left.

IMO, that is a reckless approach to the season.

 

[JMR]

Well I don't think Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow are available. So we have to work with the players available.

I have no idea what you think posting Geno's career stats was supposed to prove. I get it. You prefer that we spend Geno's cap money of someone else and have Marcus Mariota or someone like him as our starter. I prefer that we don't suck next season if avoidable. I also don't care much for the notion of not signing someone and hoping that one of the top 3 QBs drops to us and draft whoever is left.

IMO, that is a reckless approach to the season.

Great news: we can sign Sam Darnold and not "mortgage the future" on Geno Smith!

 

[flyerhawk]

You've done it multiple times. It's your entire argument. It's the only thing you have - and continue to - advocate for. Pushing north of 10 million into future seasons just to keep Geno Smith for an extra year or two is not what I would call good cap management.

It's interesting that people who think Geno played like a top 10 QB this year won't look to be paid like a top 10 QB are upset that others think Geno won't be a top 10 QB moving forward so shouldn't be paid like a top 10 QB.

If you think the team can sign a starting QB for under 10 million then I think you have a very unrealistic expectation of what it costs to sign a starting QB. Brissett is going to get more than 10 million AAV.

And arguing that deferring money to later years is bad cap management then every team in the league is bad at cap management.

 

[flyerhawk]

Great news: we can sign Sam Darnold and not "mortgage the future" on Geno Smith!

And when he gets benched or injured, we can count on Drew Lock or some other castoff to come up and perform just like Geno.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Well I don't think Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow are available. So we have to work with the players available.

I have no idea what you think posting Geno's career stats was supposed to prove. I get it. You prefer that we spend Geno's cap money of someone else and have Marcus Mariota or someone like him as our starter. I prefer that we don't suck next season if avoidable. I also don't care much for the notion of not signing someone and hoping that one of the top 3 QBs drops to us and draft whoever is left.

IMO, that is a reckless approach to the season.

We do see things from a different point of view. I see drafting a top 3 QB and having years of having the advantage of a rookie QB as a chance to build towards a Championship. Conversely I see committing to Geno with the contract you propose as avoiding any risk of being awful by settling for being a borderline playoff team. I say that because I don't believe the Seahawks can do better than that with Geno and they may do much worse if Geno doesn't play up to 2022.

 

[flyerhawk]

We do see things from a different point of view. I see drafting a top 3 QB and having years of having the advantage of a rookie QB as a chance to build towards a Championship. Conversely I see committing to Geno with the contract you propose as avoiding any risk of being awful by settling for being a borderline playoff team. I say that because I don't believe the Seahawks can do better than that with Geno and they may do much worse if Geno doesn't play up to 2022.

I have said many many times that I am fine with the Seahawks draft a QB with their 1st pick IF they think that one of the QBs is a legit game changing QB.

The thing is, signing Geno does not preclude the team from drafting a QB with the 1st pick. And my proposed contract would enable that QB to develop a little which would be important if we drafted Will Levis.

Not signing Geno means we need to find someone else to fill in the role in the open market. And if the big 3 QBs get drafted before we pick, which is entirely possible, we are basically punting on the 2023 season.

 

[blstoker]

If $10M is too much to push to a cap year 3 years in the future, then I guess you only want the team to either perpetually sign a journeyman on a 1 or 2 year deal or just keep churning through QBs on rookie contracts. You can never land or re-sign an established good QB who has a market without spreading out some money to soften the cap hit in the near term years. Andy Dalton, here we come!

Well, it's just laughable to think he should only get bottom 1/3 starter money, which is where some of you are. What you feel should happen and what is likely to happen are not the same things.

It's not just Geno. How many other dead cap and voided contracts will have to be continually made to create a moderately competitive team in the coming years? $10 million (or more) is enough to make one of the top 10 contracts on the team not even on the team. There are only 7 players who have a cap hit larger than that in 2023 in Seattle and you (and others) have advocated for cutting up to 4 of them because their contracts. But, just having them throw that money away is no big deal cause Geno Smith is worth $10 million to not even be on the roster.

Advocating for bottom 1/3? Who's doing that? I'd like him for around $20 million AAV, which would make him top half. More than reasonable for a one year wonder. Make it a 2 or 3 year contract and if he lives up to it a second year he earns those higher 2nd and 3rd years. Bottom 1/3 would be $7.5 million AAV - and no one is saying that's all he should get.

 

[flyerhawk]

It's not just Geno. How many other dead cap and voided contracts will have to be continually made to create a moderately competitive team in the coming years? $10 million (or more) is enough to make one of the top 10 contracts on the team not even on the team. There are only 7 players who have a cap hit larger than that in 2023 in Seattle and you (and others) have advocated for cutting up to 4 of them because their contracts. But, just having them throw that money away is no big deal cause Geno Smith is worth $10 million to not even be on the roster.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not advocating for cutting anyone. I was simply pointing out that players could be cut or we could restructure contracts. This is what teams do every year.

Advocating for bottom 1/3? Who's doing that? I'd like him for around $20 million AAV, which would make him top half. More than reasonable for a one year wonder. Make it a 2 or 3 year contract and if he lives up to it a second year he earns those higher 2nd and 3rd years. Bottom 1/3 would be $7.5 million AAV - and no one is saying that's all he should get.

This is misleading. If you remove QBs on rookie contracts then you are looking at..

Mariota
Winston
Trubisky
Bridgewater
Taylor
Brisset

and a bunch of straight up backups.

It's all well and good to say we should get someone better than Geno. It's harder to come up with a name.

 

[Anointed One]

^^^ from 2021

Opinions change... Should I dig up stuff on you, too? It was a small sample size in 2021 but his completion %, TD/INT ratio was night and day... Why is that? Why is his % ratio night and day in 21 & 22 vs the Jets first two years? Is it because he's gotten better? Or is it because he's lucky? Because you're basing your opinion basically off his 1st 2 years in the league because he hasn't played much since then before coming to Seattle...

You're coming off very bitter and defensive when discussing Geno now days...

 

[flyerhawk]

We do see things from a different point of view. I see drafting a top 3 QB and having years of having the advantage of a rookie QB as a chance to build towards a Championship. Conversely I see committing to Geno with the contract you propose as avoiding any risk of being awful by settling for being a borderline playoff team. I say that because I don't believe the Seahawks can do better than that with Geno and they may do much worse if Geno doesn't play up to 2022.

You mean like the Jets? Or the Browns? Or the Dolphins? Or the Cardinals? Or the Giants? Or the Bears? You always frame this as if drafting a good QB is the easy part.

It would be great if the Seahawks could draft really good QBs, keep them for 5 years, and then find another great QB in the draft.

 

[blstoker]

This is misleading. If you remove QBs on rookie contracts then you are looking at..

Mariota
Winston
Trubisky
Bridgewater
Taylor
Brisset

and a bunch of straight up backups.

It's all well and good to say we should get someone better than Geno. It's harder to come up with a name.

So, yes. People are not advocating paying Geno as a rookie, nor as a backup.

 

[flyerhawk]

Great news: we can sign Sam Darnold and not "mortgage the future" on Geno Smith!

We keep hearing how we can't resign Geno for any number he would realistically accept but we don't hear a lot about what we should be doing instead.

Resigning Drew Lock and hoping for the best is almost malpractice. If Lock were to struggle, Pete could lose the entire team.

 

[flyerhawk]

So, yes. People are not advocating paying Geno as a rookie, nor as a backup.

Great. So which QBs were signed as starters that are making less than 20 million AAV.

 

[Anointed One]

We keep hearing how we can't resign Geno for any number he would realistically accept but we don't hear a lot about what we should be doing instead.

Resigning Drew Lock and hoping for the best is almost malpractice. If Lock were to struggle, Pete could lose the entire team.

We also keep hearing, "we trust Pete and John with whatever they do"... But when it comes to the possibility of resigning Geno, then they don't trust them... You either trust them or you don't...

Trust = One in which confidence is placed