Geno Staying put

[JMR]

They are all flesh and blood, same biology. People peak mid twenty's regardless of occupation.

It doesn't seem like you're trying to be taken seriously here.

 

[wilwhite]

His performance last year would suggest that he gets close to 40 million. But there are other factors at play.

One factor is that none of those other contracts are based on a single year's performance.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

It doesn't seem like you're trying to be taken seriously here.

Coming from someone who claimed Russell Wilson was just entering his prime last off season, I'll just have to consider the source.

 

[flyerhawk]

Coming from someone who claimed Russell Wilson was just entering his prime last off season, I'll just have to consider the source.

You literally just described Geno Smith as aging while talking about bringing in Derek Carr who is a year younger.

 

[flyerhawk]

One factor is that none of those other contracts are based on a single year's performance.

Yup. He will not get 40 million because he only has one good year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You literally just described Geno Smith as aging while talking about bringing in Derek Carr who is a year younger.

I never said or implied bringing in Carr. I was speaking to their value in FA

 

[JMR]

Coming from someone who claimed Russell Wilson was just entering his prime last off season, I'll just have to consider the source.

Most HOF QBs (especially in the last 20 years) play at a high level into their late 30s, some even over 40. You're just being obtuse and argumentative. You can't even figure out how to pluralize the word "twenty" but you claim to know the biology of NFL players. You have zero credibility with the ridiculous crap you say in here.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Most HOF QBs (especially in the last 20 years) play at a high level into their late 30s, some even over 40. You're just being obtuse and argumentative. You can't even figure out how to pluralize the word "twenty" but you claim to know the biology of NFL players. You have zero credibility with the ridiculous crap you say in here.

Nothing I‘ve said is ridiculous. You say I’m argumentative yet I was responding to @flyerhawk when you felt the need to jump in to argue and insult. Yes QBs play pass the age of thirty, but physically they are declining to some degree with each passing year, some makeup for that with the knowledge they have acquired with experience, but physically their reflex’s have slowed down, they move a bit slower ect.

 

[flyerhawk]

Nothing I‘ve said is ridiculous. You say I’m argumentative yet I was responding to @flyerhawk when you felt the need to jump in to argue and insult. Yes QBs play pass the age of thirty, but physically they are declining to some degree with each passing year, some makeup for that with the knowledge they have acquired with experience, but physically their reflex’s have slowed down, they move a bit slower ect.

QBs aren't as physically capable as they were in their 20s. But they do gain experience. And if they aren't the type of QB that relies on their physical abilities, they can play well into their 30s.

 

[JMR]

QBs aren't as physically capable as they were in their 20s. But they do gain experience. And if they aren't the type of QB that relies on their physical abilities, they can play well into their 30s.

NFL players in general are playing longer, especially QBs. Some of it is probably improvements in gear/helmets, rules changes that provide more protection for ballcarriers & passers, etc., but some of it is also due to better conditioning and diet. We have all seen the iconic picture of Len Dawson smoking a cig at halftime and heard the stories of players not working out at all in the offseason and using pre-season to get in shape -- just things that are unheard of today and almost even hard to imagine that it was ever like that. 33 just isn't old for an NFL QB these days.

 

[Anointed One]

Speaking of QB ages, I thought this was interesting... This is a list of all QB's over the age of 30 whom started a game in 2022...



Now look at 2000 QB's ages that starting a game that year... 24 started in the year 2022.... Only 9 QB's started a game at the age of 30+ in 2000... Net of +15 in todays modern era...

 

[Screamin12th]

Age for QB's is a little different but that also is very dependent on how they play and their style. A athletic QB that runs around or relies on his ability to extend rather than staying on schedule, those guys wont age as well.

I myself would rather have a guy that excels from the pocket but can escape and run if need be. This type of QB will have a longer shelf life. Wilson was never in this category. Brady was at the extreme immobile and Rogers was more balanced but still a pocket passer. The two oldest starting QB's in 2022.

If i am looking for a new Long term QB this is where i look, if i am looking for a bridge or short term QB i go with the scrambler.

 

[Anointed One]

Age for QB's is a little different but that also is very dependent on how they play and their style. A athletic QB that runs around or relies on his ability to extend rather than staying on schedule, those guys wont age as well.

I myself would rather have a guy that excels from the pocket but can escape and run if need be. This type of QB will have a longer shelf life. Wilson was never in this category. Brady was at the extreme immobile and Rogers was more balanced but still a pocket passer. The two oldest starting QB's in 2022.

If i am looking for a new Long term QB this is where i look, if i am looking for a bridge or short term QB i go with the scrambler.

I would also add that a more balanced QB has to be smart when deciding to scramble from the pocket... Guys like Burrows, Mahomes and Josh Allen will have more opportunities for injuries if they are going to take contact instead of running OOB's or sliding... There were a few times this year that I didn't think Allen was going to get up after the hit...

Rodgers is best in class in terms of not initiating contact when deciding to scramble... Like you said... Big reason he's still very productive at the age of 39...

 

[flyerhawk]

Geno Smith contract talks through an agent's eyes: No precedent, playing tag and ... Miranda Rights?

“There’s literally nobody out there who fits this profile," a former NFL agent said of Smith as the quarterback heads toward free agency.

theathletic.com

Pretty good article by the ever reliable M-S Dugar. For those without an account, he talks a lot about the lack comps to Geno's situation. Talks to a former agent.

This is what he closes with..

Considering all the variables and the uniqueness of the situation, Corry’s prediction is that Seattle and Smith will avoid the franchise tag and agree to a three-year deal with an average annual salary in the high $20 million or low $30 million range, assuming Smith stays true to his postgame sentiment about wanting to do right by the Seahawks.

Pretty much what I have been thinking. Maybe another year for proration.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yeah, there has been significant investment in him for sure, and it also doesn't make financial sense to part ways with him right now. It would actually cost the team less cap space to keep him ($18M) than to cut him ($21M), and his issue has been health and not ability. Maybe a different story a year from now, but I agree with you he's likely to be around for another season at least.

If they cut Jamal Adams after June 1st, this is the salary cap impact on the Seahawks:

2023: $7.1m dead money $11m cap savings
2024: $7.1m dead money $16.5m cap savings
2025: $7.1m dead money $17.5m cap savings

I would imagine they'd give him another chance. The raw athleticism is definitely there, and prior to the trade he was one of the best young safeties in the NFL. Unfortunately for the Seahawks, just about everything that could go wrong, went wrong. Only time will tell what happens with Adams.

 

[Screamin12th]

He is a box safety and the Hawks gave up WAY TO MUCH for a box safety, Those first round picks would have been HUGE for this team.
those picks could have been

2021 1st C Creed Humphrey ( Stud ) or DL Christian Barmore Then the 3rd rounder.
2022 1st DL Travon Walker or maybe S Jalen Pitre.

Team would be in a much better place going forward. Jamal Adams has hurt this team big but it was the Front office and Pete that signed off on this extremely over priced trade. there was never a chance he could live up to what they gave up and that meant no matter what Jamal asked for they had to resign him. I said 17 mill you all laughed then a year latter he got his 17 mill.

I actually feel a little bad for Jamal, I hate his contract and how he has played but it's not his fault he was over valued by people that should have known better when even Fans and talking heads knew better.

 

[wilwhite]

Speaking of QB ages, I thought this was interesting... This is a list of all QB's over the age of 30 whom started a game in 2022...

View attachment 321240

Now look at 2000 QB's ages that starting a game that year... 24 started in the year 2022.... Only 9 QB's started a game at the age of 30+ in 2000... Net of +15 in todays modern era...

View attachment 321241

Tom Brady's on both lists.

 

[blstoker]

If they cut Jamal Adams after June 1st, this is the salary cap impact on the Seahawks:

2023: $7.1m dead money $11m cap savings
2024: $7.1m dead money $16.5m cap savings
2025: $7.1m dead money $17.5m cap savings

I would imagine they'd give him another chance. The raw athleticism is definitely there, and prior to the trade he was one of the best young safeties in the NFL. Unfortunately for the Seahawks, just about everything that could go wrong, went wrong. Only time will tell what happens with Adams.

The problem I have with how people are advocating the Hawks cap space it that it's not sustainable. The Saints have been pushing their cap issues down the road for years and right now they have over 10% of their cap in voided contracts and they're still nearly $60 million over the cap at the moment. They've put themselves in a position to constantly devote more and more of their cap to voided contracts to save cap money in the current year and it's killing their ability to field a competent team.

Tampa Bay is even worse, with $50m in voided contracts and also nearly $60 m over the cap. Jacksonville is $30m over and will now have to get creative - and they haven't even had to really pay their young QB yet.

Yes, teams try to find ways to creatively stay under the cap - but the current method is to do it by playing players now, paying for them later. Not to mention that post June 1 cuts tend to really screw with a player's ability to get a comparable contract - so kiss the Seattle as a destination for free agents completely goodbye.

People are advocating mortgaging the future for Geno Smith.

 

[flyerhawk]

The problem I have with how people are advocating the Hawks cap space it that it's not sustainable. The Saints have been pushing their cap issues down the road for years and right now they have over 10% of their cap in voided contracts and they're still nearly $60 million over the cap at the moment. They've put themselves in a position to constantly devote more and more of their cap to voided contracts to save cap money in the current year and it's killing their ability to field a competent team.

Tampa Bay is even worse, with $50m in voided contracts and also nearly $60 m over the cap. Jacksonville is $30m over and will now have to get creative - and they haven't even had to really pay their young QB yet.

Yes, teams try to find ways to creatively stay under the cap - but the current method is to do it by playing players now, paying for them later. Not to mention that post June 1 cuts tend to really screw with a player's ability to get a comparable contract - so kiss the Seattle as a destination for free agents completely goodbye.

People are advocating mortgaging the future for Geno Smith.

Again, you keep framing this as if there are equally good alternative options that cost dramatically less. Maybe you think the QB position is plug n play and we can simply pick some other back up QB to perform but that goes against everything we see in the NFL.

You also keep framing the Geno contract like it is going to be far more painful than it really is.

3 year 90 million dollar contract with a 42 million dollar signing bonus

Year 1 - 14 million dollar cap hit. 2 million dollar salary - 16 million total cap
Year 2 - 14 million dollar cap hit. 10 million salary - 24 million total cap hit
Year 3 - 14 million dollar cap hit. 36 million in salary - 50 million total cap hit

Year 3 he either gets cut or restructures. He if gets cut then it's 14 million dollar cap hit.

You also draft a QB this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let him develop.

That's a plan. Letting Geno go and hoping that Drew Lock or Marcus Mariota will step up and provide similar results as Geno isn't a plan. It's just hopes and prayers.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Again, you keep framing this as if there are equally good alternative options that cost dramatically less. Maybe you think the QB position is plug n play and we can simply pick some other back up QB to perform but that goes against everything we see in the NFL.

You also keep framing the Geno contract like it is going to be far more painful than it really is.

3 year 90 million dollar contract with a 42 million dollar signing bonus

Year 1 - 14 million dollar cap hit. 2 million dollar salary - 16 million total cap
Year 2 - 14 million dollar cap hit. 10 million salary - 24 million total cap hit
Year 3 - 14 million dollar cap hit. 36 million in salary - 50 million total cap hit

Year 3 he either gets cut or restructures. He if gets cut then it's 14 million dollar cap hit.

You also draft a QB this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let him develop.

That's a plan. Letting Geno go and hoping that Drew Lock or Marcus Mariota will step up and provide similar results as Geno isn't a plan. It's just hopes and prayers.

So 16 + 24+14=54 million for a journeyman QB