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Geno Staying put

Anointed One

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I think we all have a different opinion of what a, "big contract" is in today's modern era... I believe a big contract in todays modern era for a QB is 40+ AAV... I would be upset if we gave Geno anymore than a 30+... Some here believe 20 million is their cap...

I don't want Geno to make more than 30 AAV per year/ with nothing more than a 3 or 4 years contract... I want the bonus to be upfront so we would have an opportunity to cut him after a year or two if necessary... I don't want him to be more than 12% of the cap...

I want to ensure we avoid a very high cap hit after two years like the ones listed here... If he gets a bonus, let it be heavily accrued in years 1 and 2 so we don't get hit with a very high cap hit if we release him after 2 years... We will have so many starters on rookie contracts so we won't have too many high salaries being paid out over those 2 years...
NFL Rankings

Also, here is the average annual salary each QB will be receiving... This is where I don't want Geno to be more than 30 million per year... 30 million seems like it's a bit above average for a starting QB salary in today's era...

We will be replacing some veterans with rookies, so the salary will be less in those cases... For example,
  • Jalen Carter could replace Puna Ford - freeing up salary
  • LG could replace Gabe Jackson - freeing up salary
  • Safety could replace J. Adams - freeing up some salary over the next few years
 

JMR

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I think we all have a different opinion of what a, "big contract" is in today's modern era... I believe a big contract in todays modern era for a QB is 40+ AAV... I would be upset if we gave Geno anymore than a 30+... Some here believe 20 million is their cap...
This is exactly the source of friction here in this discussion. I haven't seen anyone advocate for a big contract, but I do see guys like Harold more or less say they don't want Geno back at all by the unrealistic numbers they would be willing to accept to re-sign him. He isn't signing for backup money or something that is 50% incentives.
I don't want Geno to make more than 30 AAV per year/ with nothing more than a 3 or 4 years contract... I want the bonus to be upfront so we would have an opportunity to cut him after a year or two if necessary... I don't want him to be more than 12% of the cap...
The cap % is really what we should look at. It factors both how much the player costs as well as how much the team can spend. Just looking at raw cash or AAV doesn't pull that in. However, some folks here just throw out a dollar amount and declare that to be too much. It's just a numerator, which doesn't mean anything without the denominator. Shouldn't be that hard to put a deal together that keeps Geno under 12% even 3 years in while also giving him a decent payday up front. Thinking the only acceptable way forward is a contract that is only a win for the team is out of touch with reality, but that's where some people are with this. Just spinning wheels trying to reason with those folks.
 

flyerhawk

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This is exactly the source of friction here in this discussion. I haven't seen anyone advocate for a big contract, but I do see guys like Harold more or less say they don't want Geno back at all by the unrealistic numbers they would be willing to accept to re-sign him. He isn't signing for backup money or something that is 50% incentives.

I don't see too many folks saying we should be giving Geno 40 million AAV. So it's kinda weird that people keep bringing it up as a thing.

Incentives are a non-starter.
 

JMR

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I don't see too many folks saying we should be giving Geno 40 million AAV. So it's kinda weird that people keep bringing it up as a thing.
Yep, strawmen are taking a beating in this discussion.
Incentives are a non-starter.
I would love to see any example of a QB coming off a pro bowl year hitting free agency and agreeing to an incentive-heavy deal.
 

boogiewithstu2007

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Read this article that discuss Geno and his contract.


How has this become our reality? How have we gone from the Russell Wilson trade, embracing an opportunity to draft a replacement and potentially benefit from years of cost-effective quarterback play, to having a serious debate about paying Geno Smith a similar salary to the one they shipped to Denver 12 months ago?

Smith had one good season in a journeyman career. It wasn’t even a full season of quality play either. You can make the arguments about why his form tailed off and some are valid points to raise. Yet the truth is he still made errors and could easily have had more turnovers — as noted in a previous article:

I only post that little bit it goes on and makes the concerns I feel we all should have about signing Geno to a big contract.
Sums up how I feel, we just got out from under a big QB contract, let’s not jump back in one with a guy that’s been a backup for 10 years … This is a BIG moment on whether Seattle creates another possible Super Bowl window or not.. We’d be better off letting Geno walk and putting that money elsewhere if he’s wanting too much … If he comes at a reasonable price then consider it BUT I’m holding my breath that Pete doesn’t overpay this guy …
 

flyerhawk

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I would love to see any example of a QB coming off a pro bowl year hitting free agency and agreeing to an incentive-heavy deal.

The problem with incentives is that any incentives that Geno would even consider would be likely to achieve incentives that would go against the cap regardless of whether he hit them or not. So it doesn't help the team at all really.
 

MrS

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Tuesday, February 21, marks the beginning of the franchise and transition tag window, which will end on Tuesday, March 7.

The league year will begin on Wednesday, March 15, and that also marks the start of the free-agency signing period.
 

JMR

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Sums up how I feel, we just got out from under a big QB contract, let’s not jump back in one with a guy that’s been a backup for 10 years … This is a BIG moment on whether Seattle creates another possible Super Bowl window or not.. We’d be better off letting Geno walk and putting that money elsewhere if he’s wanting too much … If he comes at a reasonable price then consider it BUT I’m holding my breath that Pete doesn’t overpay this guy …
Everyone here is in agreement about not getting into a big QB contract. But that's a subjective thing. Also subjective is whatever "he's wanting too much" means. A few folks here just have this lowball definition that essentially means they don't want him back at any price that he would be willing to accept.
 

boogiewithstu2007

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Yep, strawmen are taking a beating in this discussion.

I would love to see any example of a QB coming off a pro bowl year hitting free agency and agreeing to an incentive-heavy deal.

Rodgers $50M
Wilson $49M
Murray $46M
Watson $46M
Mahomes $45M
Allen $43M
Carr $40M
Prescott $40M
Stafford $40M
Cousins $35M
Goff $34M
Wentz $32M
Ryan $30M
Tannehill $30M
Brady $15M
Winston $14M
Mariota $9M
Trubisky $7M
Brissett $5M

Don’t think for a second Geno and his agent are not gonna go for the highest dollar they can get, that’s the business … Wentz 32 mill a year, Cousins 35 mill a year, Goff 34 mill a year … Prescott 40 Mill a year …Believe it, Geno and his agent can argue he’s better than those guys, he’s a pro bowl QB this year, highest passing percentage, it’s no straw man argument… Pete and John need to be the ones that say HELL NO! But Geno’s agent is gonna do everything he can to maximize his clients $, that’s the business … Geno gets greedy, let him walk ….
 

boogiewithstu2007

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Everyone here is in agreement about not getting into a big QB contract. But that's a subjective thing. Also subjective is whatever "he's wanting too much" means. A few folks here just have this lowball definition that essentially means they don't want him back at any price that he would be willing to accept.
I hear ya .. I just think Geno’s body of work he should be around 20-25 mill a year, cap friendly … 30 Mill a year let him walk, it’s too much …
 

flyerhawk

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Rodgers $50M
Wilson $49M
Murray $46M
Watson $46M
Mahomes $45M
Allen $43M
Carr $40M
Prescott $40M
Stafford $40M
Cousins $35M
Goff $34M
Wentz $32M
Ryan $30M
Tannehill $30M
Brady $15M
Winston $14M
Mariota $9M
Trubisky $7M
Brissett $5M

Don’t think for a second Geno and his agent are not gonna go for the highest dollar they can get, that’s the business … Wentz 32 mill a year, Cousins 35 mill a year, Goff 34 mill a year … Prescott 40 Mill a year …Believe it, Geno and his agent can argue he’s better than those guys, he’s a pro bowl QB this year, highest passing percentage, it’s no straw man argument… Pete and John need to be the ones that say HELL NO! But Geno’s agent is gonna do everything he can to maximize his clients $, that’s the business … Geno gets greedy, let him walk ….

Geno isn't going to get offered a 40 million AAV contract from any team. I would imagine that JS will convey to Geno that their best offer will be pre-free agency. And they will give him a strong signing bonus.
 

JMR

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Rodgers $50M
Wilson $49M
Murray $46M
Watson $46M
Mahomes $45M
Allen $43M
Carr $40M
Prescott $40M
Stafford $40M
Cousins $35M
Goff $34M
Wentz $32M
Ryan $30M
Tannehill $30M
Brady $15M
Winston $14M
Mariota $9M
Trubisky $7M
Brissett $5M

Don’t think for a second Geno and his agent are not gonna go for the highest dollar they can get, that’s the business … Wentz 32 mill a year, Cousins 35 mill a year, Goff 34 mill a year … Prescott 40 Mill a year …Believe it, Geno and his agent can argue he’s better than those guys, he’s a pro bowl QB this year, highest passing percentage, it’s no straw man argument… Pete and John need to be the ones that say HELL NO! But Geno’s agent is gonna do everything he can to maximize his clients $, that’s the business … Geno gets greedy, let him walk ….
That list has some bad contracts (like Kyler Murray & Deshaun Watson) but most of them are structured such that the team can avoid the most expensive years, and the player might get 1 season in at the cost of what that AAV says. Sometimes none. AAV is a deceiving number in almost all cases, especially for longer contracts.

But yeah, I expect Geno's agent to get him as much money as possible. It's his job to do so. And by strawman, I am talking about continued implications that some people here are ok with paying Geno top dollar to stay. That's not what anyone here is saying. But the notion that JS should hold a hard line at some lowball offer isn't realistic. It's just another way to say they prefer not to bring him back.
 

JMR

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I hear ya .. I just think Geno’s body of work he should be around 20-25 mill a year, cap friendly … 30 Mill a year let him walk, it’s too much …
What if the contract doesn't get Geno to $30M until the 3rd year? The first year might be around $18M, 2nd year $25M, 3rd year $30M. Would that change anything in your assessment on whether it's too much? By the time the 2025 season gets here, $30M might be only a shade over 11% of the cap.
 

MrS

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if he wont negotiate a team friendly deal and wants the biggest contract he can get, which I would if I were him, tagging and trading is what they should do.

you cant let a starting QB walk and get nothing in return
 

HaroldSeattle

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if he wont negotiate a team friendly deal and wants the biggest contract he can get, which I would if I were him, tagging and trading is what they should do.

you cant let a starting QB walk and get nothing in return
Tag him and you risk having to keep and pay him with all his cap hit hitting 2023.
 

MrS

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Tag him and you risk having to keep and pay him with all his cap hit hitting 2023.
I think thats a miniscule risk, a QB needy team will give up something for a starter.
 

flyerhawk

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if he wont negotiate a team friendly deal and wants the biggest contract he can get, which I would if I were him, tagging and trading is what they should do.

you cant let a starting QB walk and get nothing in return

This seems extremely unlikely.
 

seahawksfan234

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I think we all have a different opinion of what a, "big contract" is in today's modern era... I believe a big contract in todays modern era for a QB is 40+ AAV... I would be upset if we gave Geno anymore than a 30+... Some here believe 20 million is their cap...

I don't want Geno to make more than 30 AAV per year/ with nothing more than a 3 or 4 years contract... I want the bonus to be upfront so we would have an opportunity to cut him after a year or two if necessary... I don't want him to be more than 12% of the cap...

I want to ensure we avoid a very high cap hit after two years like the ones listed here... If he gets a bonus, let it be heavily accrued in years 1 and 2 so we don't get hit with a very high cap hit if we release him after 2 years... We will have so many starters on rookie contracts so we won't have too many high salaries being paid out over those 2 years...
NFL Rankings

Also, here is the average annual salary each QB will be receiving... This is where I don't want Geno to be more than 30 million per year... 30 million seems like it's a bit above average for a starting QB salary in today's era...

We will be replacing some veterans with rookies, so the salary will be less in those cases... For example,
  • Jalen Carter could replace Puna Ford - freeing up salary
  • LG could replace Gabe Jackson - freeing up salary
  • Safety could replace J. Adams - freeing up some salary over the next few years
As much as I love Poona Ford I also don't see him returning. I just don't see him as a natural fit in a 3-4. Unfortunate because my #2 CFB team is Texas and I love Ford's story. He went undrafted just because he's short. If he was two inches taller he would've been selected likely in the 3rd round or so. That all said, I doubt Jalen Carter falls to us. He's the best prospect in the draft IMO. I'd even consider trading up to get him. BUT this draft is deep at DT and there are replacements for Poona that can be found in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Gabe Jackson is a goner, I agree.

For better or worse, I think Jamal Adams will be on the roster in 2023. Apparently he's still limping, but the Seahawks have invested so much in him both in terms of draft picks and salary that I think they'll give him one more shot if he's able to recover from his injury.
 
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