Geno Staying put

[Anointed One]

Only if Stroud, Anderson or Carter are off the board. If the kid from TT is on the board I'd inclined to take him.

I’ve been developing a man crush in Wilson from TT. I like him better than Anderson in our scheme

 

[Anointed One]

Im not impressed by him? he doesnt have arm elite arm, he didn't win big games against big teams, and he played on a stacked team. Its a hard pass from me.

I’ve never been on the Stroud train either. Same with Young

 

[MrS]

I’ve never been on the Stroud train either. Same with Young

Its not a terrible QB class like last year, but its a very flawed QB class.

I watched stroud v notre dame, he was terrible. Watched him against michigan, he was terrible again and flubbed the game away at the end with an int

He reminds me a lot of geno actually, he can do all the things except put the team on his back. Maybe dark Prescott like ceiling?

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Im not impressed by him? he doesnt have arm elite arm, he didn't win big games against big teams, and he played on a stacked team. Its a hard pass from me.

He shredded the top defense in the country and lost by a point. Every QB on every team will have a clunker or 2. I disagree on the arm talent and accuracy.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I’ve been developing a man crush in Wilson from TT. I like him better than Anderson in our scheme

I like him too and he should be there at 1.5

 

[MrS]

He shredded the top defense in the country and lost by a point. Every QB on every team will have a clunker or 2. I disagree on the arm talent and accuracy.

he scored 3 points in the 4th quarter. If we want that just keep geno, they are pretty close to being the same player.

 

[JMR]

It's not realistic to think that the AAV means nothing. Derek Carr did a solid for the Raiders and took a puny amount of signing bonus and now they're kicking him to the curb before the extension years even start. With that being the template, there's little to no incentive for Geno to allow Seattle to do the same to him. Outside of Carr, show me a 30m AAV that doesn't reach over 30m in cap before he can be cut. If you sign him to 30m AAV, then the trend is that he'll command at least 30m in cap space in one season of his deal.

I didn't say it means nothing. But the AAV is rarely a true picture of what that player will really end up costing the team in cap space.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

he scored 3 points in the 4th quarter. If we want that just keep geno, they are pretty close to being the same player.

Yep, tough to put up 21 points each quarter and he doesn't play on the OSU defense that gave up 18pts in the 4th.
23/34 348yds 4TDs 0 Ints
Not even close to Geno type

 

[JMR]

So if...

We let Geno go, decline on drafting a QB, and go back into the pool of available veteran QBs, is there one potentially available that won't overburden us on the cap and can still be a better option than Geno? Who's available or might become available? Here's my take.

Rodgers - will cost too much
Brady - looks old and locked in on the East Coast anyway unless an opportunity arises in San Francisco.
Tannehill - rather have Geno
Cousins - playoff track record sucks
Garapollo - I kinda like the guy but we'd still need a starter after he inevitably goes down
Dalton - At this point in his career he's not Batman any more. He's Robin. He's a sidekick.
Carr - I hope not, but if Rodgers ends up Las Vegas, I have a disturbing feeling about this.
Brissett - rather have Geno
Mariotta - rather have Geno
Matty Ice - seems to be fading. I mean, if he could be inspired to have one more great season, then maybe. And maybe Pete is the nguy to inspire him. But, I'm highly doubtful. I think Ryan is mentally and emotionally damaged goods.
Mayfield - rather have Geno
Lamar Jackson - will cost too much

If the team doesn't re-sign Geno before the start of free agency, then to me that is the signal that they probably intend to let him walk and not get back into a situation where they are paying market price for what a top or above avg QB costs... meaning they would be unlikely to go after anyone in that list that will cost around what Geno will (or more), so guys like Carr, Garapollo, and Lamar Jackson are out IMO. Cousins is probably not available until after the 2023 season (and would be expensive), and probably same for Rodgers. Brady is retired (again). Tannehill could be cut I suppose, but the kid they drafted a year ago out of Liberty sure didn't look like he would be ready to start by 2023. I think someone like Brissett or Dalton could come in here for a lot less money than what it would cost to retain Geno and do well enough to get us to the next guy. Some fans will bristle at those names, but it's not like we thought any more of Geno a year ago than either of those 2.

Did I leave anyone out?

Oh yeah, there is also Danny Dimes, who may become available. I don't think he is the right guy either.

Drew Lock? Maybe we will see how confident PC is in his system. The recent track record of it is pretty good for QBs: Geno had a break out and career year, coupled with Russ going somewhere else and not playing close to what he did under Pete for 10 years. I am sure they would like to bring Geno back, but I don't think they would do it at any cost. If that number gets too high at the negotiating table, maybe the FO doubles down on Pete's approach and gives Lock or another mostly unproven player a shot on the cheap.

 

[flyerhawk]

Let's play out the NFL offseason QB market: We made offers and chose landing spots for Carr, Garoppolo, Young

Our NFL Nation reporters played GM and navigated the offseason quarterback market, through trade offers, free agent deals and early-round draft picks. Who landed a new starter?

www.espn.com

2022 team: Seahawks

Seahawks' offer: Three years, $90 million ($50 million guaranteed). The deal would include a $42 million signing bonus, along with base salaries of $2 million guaranteed in 2023, $13 million in 2024 ($6 million of that is guaranteed against injury at signing and becomes fully guaranteed six days after the 2024 Super Bowl) and $26 million in 2025. And there is a $5 million roster bonus due on the fifth day of the 2025 league year and $2 million in per-game roster bonuses that season. Smith can stay with a team that has a promising young core, plenty of offensive assets and an offensive system in which he played by far his best football. -- Brady Henderson

SMITH'S DECISION: Accept the Seahawks' offer. Pretty simple. Seattle's offer is a strong one, and Smith is happy here. Why mess with a good thing? -- Dan Graziano

The Seahawks' aftermath: A short-term deal makes sense for both sides here, allowing Smith to get back to the bargaining table in a few years if he continues to ascend while also giving the Seahawks the flexibility to move on after two years if his play regresses. Seattle looks like the best situation for him given his familiarity with their offense, the impact players around him and all the resources the Seahawks have this offseason to continue building up their roster. Part of that will be trying to re-sign Drew Lock to continue his development behind Smith and maybe spending a middle- or late-round pick on a quarterback in the draft. -- Henderson

So cap hit of 16 million in 2023. We could cut him after 2024 and take a $14 million cap hit in 2025.

There are only 2 real options. Resign Geno and try to find a late round gem. Let Geno walk, draft a QB early and let him compete with someone like Drew Lock.

Bringing in some journeyman like Brisset or Darnold or Mayfield to save a little cap space and almost certainly be not as good next year doesn't make sense to me. That's half a loaf thinking.

 

[JMR]

There are only 2 real options. Resign Geno and try to find a late round gem. Let Geno walk, draft a QB early and let him compete with someone like Drew Lock.

Probably the most likely options, but I don't think they are the only ones that are "real."

Bringing in some journeyman like Brisset or Darnold or Mayfield to save a little cap space and almost certainly be not as good next year doesn't make sense to me. That's half a loaf thinking.

I am not so sure about that. A year ago, we thought it was 1/10th a loaf thinking to trade Russell and move forward with Geno. We thought Geno was going to stink it up. We were wildly wrong. The reason why PC may prefer to not pay Geno and go with someone like Brissett would be the same reason he went with Geno last year and proved us wrong.

 

[flyerhawk]

Probably the most likely options, but I don't think they are the only ones that are "real."

I am not so sure about that. A year ago, we thought it was 1/10th a loaf thinking to trade Russell and move forward with Geno. We thought Geno was going to stink it up. We were wildly wrong. The reason why PC may prefer to not pay Geno and go with someone like Brissett would be the same reason he went with Geno last year and proved us wrong.

Not sure I agree with your reasoning.

The Seahawks decided to move on from Russ because A) He wanted to leave B) they were offered a pretty good package to let him leave and C) he was becoming a headache for them.

I don't think for a second that they would have traded Russ if A and C weren't true even at his salary.

I also think we should be careful with assuming that QB is plug n play and we can find someone else to replicate Geno's performance. Geno knew the system and worked within it to limit his personal limitations, which are largely centered on decision making. Bringing in a QB with good decision making and poor accuracy, for example, may not result in the same thing.

We were all wildly wrong about Geno because we only saw him play a little bit in the past 7 years.

Seems to me that moving on from Geno, assuming that we can get him for that 3 for 90 deal, in order to save 5-10 million in cap space is really short sighted.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

There are only 2 real options. Resign Geno and try to find a late round gem. Let Geno walk, draft a QB early and let him compete with someone like Drew Lock.

Why couldn't the Seahawks sign Geno to that contract AND draft a QB early? The contract has him at a 14 mil cap hit in 2023 and 27 mil in 2025 and given the cost for year 3 he'll be cut for sure. Draft a QB early and then you have the option of grooming him if Geno continues playing decent or if Geno goes back to vintage Geno you could just start the rookie and have on the job learning.

 

[Anointed One]

If Geno is trying to maximize his contract (which he should do imo), I'm not sure I'd be ok w/ giving him over 30+ million per year... If that's the scenerio, i'd rather go in a different direction... And the direction is to not draft a QB in the first round... I also don't believe Carroll/Schneider would even take a QB in the 1st round... I'd be happy to sign Drew Lock to a 2 year contract worth 10-15 million per year along with drafting Jake Haener in the 2nd or 3rd round... I really like that kid... He's my favorite QB prospect in this years draft... He just seems like he's the exact type of QB Carroll would want...

Looks like he could be rising on draft boards... Jake Haener rising on draft boards? This draft expert thinks so

 

[flyerhawk]

Why couldn't the Seahawks sign Geno to that contract AND draft a QB early? The contract has him at a 14 mil cap hit in 2023 and 27 mil in 2025 and given the cost for year 3 he'll be cut for sure. Draft a QB early and then you have the option of grooming him if Geno continues playing decent or if Geno goes back to vintage Geno you could just start the rookie and have on the job learning.

The value of a rookie QB is their contract structure. If you sign a player for 30 million per and then tack on 7-8 mill for the rookie that defeats the purpose.

 

[flyerhawk]

If Geno is trying to maximize his contract (which he should do imo), I'm not sure I'd be ok w/ giving him over 30+ million per year... If that's the scenerio, i'd rather go in a different direction... And the direction is to not draft a QB in the first round... I also don't believe Carroll/Schneider would even take a QB in the 1st round... I'd be happy to sign Drew Lock to a 2 year contract worth 10-15 million per year along with drafting Jake Haener in the 2nd or 3rd round... I really like that kid... He's my favorite QB prospect in this years draft... He just seems like he's the exact type of QB Carroll would want...

Looks like he could be rising on draft boards... Jake Haener rising on draft boards? This draft expert thinks so

Geno is, IMO, unlikely to get much more than 30mill/year. Especially by another team. Too many risks for them.

 

[JMR]

Not sure I agree with your reasoning.

The Seahawks decided to move on from Russ because A) He wanted to leave B) they were offered a pretty good package to let him leave and C) he was becoming a headache for them.

But why and when did Russ decide he wanted out? I think that matters. I think he was bought in until he got the idea that he was going to continue playing in a relatively conservative offense that he didn't particularly care for, even when they brought Waldron on board. It is not too hard to make a case for your A & C not being around until after Russ got the idea that the team was interested in moving him. And why was the team interested in moving him? Well, I think I can argue that they wanted to move him because they felt their system could get "good enough" QB play for a lot less money and also bring back a haul of picks that they needed to remake a deteriorated roster. For PC, I think it's pretty clear that the QB isn't the singular center of gravity for the success of the team.

I also think we should be careful with assuming that QB is plug n play and we can find someone else to replicate Geno's performance. Geno knew the system and worked within it to limit his personal limitations, which are largely centered on decision making. Bringing in a QB with good decision making and poor accuracy, for example, may not result in the same thing.

I don't think that the QB is a plug and play position, but I think there is also some hubris involved on the part of PC. They undoubtedly place some value on the continuity that Geno would represent, but I also think PC believes he can get more out of players who might not have had their best success somewhere else.

We were all wildly wrong about Geno because we only saw him play a little bit in the past 7 years.

Are you sure that's why? I mean we knew that at the time -- that he hadn't played much. We knew that and still thought for sure he would be bad. We didn't say, "Well, he hasn't played much so we just don't know." I think we were wrong because we saw him play poorly in other locations where he got half a chance, and we assumed that is also what he would be as a starter here. Maybe we were wrong because we under rated how PC can work with QBs.

Seems to me that moving on from Geno, assuming that we can get him for that 3 for 90 deal, in order to save 5-10 million in cap space is really short sighted.

I'm ok with re-signing Geno, but I want the team to hold firm on their price. And if Geno won't play ball, then I think there's a path to success with a much cheaper QB who doesn't have a great track record of success, just like Geno didn't a year ago.

 

[Anointed One]

Here is an interesting article on the new salary cap and how 30-35 million per year for a QB doesn't seem as expensive...

New salary cap makes Seahawks' decisions for QB and draft easy

Interesting read but myself personally, I still wouldn't want to pay Geno that kind of money...

 

[MrS]

Yep, tough to put up 21 points each quarter and he doesn't play on the OSU defense that gave up 18pts in the 4th.
23/34 348yds 4TDs 0 Ints
Not even close to Geno type

watch the notre dame and michigan games. he was not elite at all, looked totally pedestrian. in the michigan game he tossed an INT to seal the deal, something geno has the tendency to do also.

focusing on one game, his last game, is how teams get fooled into taking players like joey harrington top 5.

 

[Anointed One]

Geno is, IMO, unlikely to get much more than 30mill/year. Especially by another team. Too many risks for them.

Possibly... I feel like we're underestimating the QB salary a bit for a starting QB that was selected to the probowl with limited wear and tear on his body compared to other starting QB's his age...

... or, I could be overestimated the QB salary a bit... I personally will be surprised if Geno doesn't land at least 30 million a year from someone...