Game #8 NE Patriots vs LA Chargers 10/31/2021 4:05 PM EST CBS

[Southieinnc]

Lots of angry Patriots fans in this thread.
yes, the refs screwed the pooch in the 1st half, it did start to get more evenly called in the 2nd.

The hit on Mac was totallt unacceptable. We should be getting a league apology this week.
At the time this happened, I was remembering how Mahommes was the "league darling" awhile back and got extra help.
It appears this year Herbert is the new "league darling"

 

[nefansince75]

Lots of angry Patriots fans in this thread.
yes, the refs screwed the pooch in the 1st half, it did start to get more evenly called in the 2nd.

The hit on Mac was totallt unacceptable. We should be getting a league apology this week.
At the time this happened, I was remembering how Mahommes was the "league darling" awhile back and got extra help.
It appears this year Herbert is the new "league darling"

Mac did not get hit that hard but the hit was very, very unsportsmans like conduct

 

[BigKen]

Agreed on the second... And agreed on the "every play" aspect. A "legal block inside shoulder jersey grab" can momentarily stray from legal when a defender turns (which is what happened to Winn). Even worse, the slow motion makes the "momentarily" look consequential.

Herron's wasn't that variety but wasn't that egregious either. He had left shoulder to left shoulder leverage, then draped his right are around the defender. Again, the replay makes it look worse.

The difference between "a hold on every play" and what is called is often just where the ref looks, but if they look and see it they call it. If they look at the entire block and see "it's not really a hold" then they won't call it. It's part of the game.

I just saw a replay and Herron called himself out on the play because he pulled his hands back and basically said, "I just held but I let go." The flag didn't fly in until Harris was in the clear and on his way to a TD. Even Ted Johnson said that the hold wasn't anything that prevented the defender from doing anything or restricted hi8m in any way. The defender was trying to spin and Herron prevented him from completing it. They actually singled it out on the Patriots Postgame on NBC.

 

[YankeeRebel]

People not liking a holding call because it was ticky tack or did not affect the play need to understand it's still a hold. You cannot hold period. I saw the replay in question and it looked like a hold.

 

[nefansince75]

People not liking a holding call because it was ticky tack or did not affect the play need to understand it's still a hold. You cannot hold period. I saw the replay in question and it looked like a hold.

I mostly agree. The "it's still a hold" is 100% correct other than sometimes a replay hold is not always a true hold in that "holding the jersey" is legal inside the shoulders (both players' shoulders) and a replay can make the release seem later than it was real time.

 

[redseat]

Well this is a first.. Bill admitted he made a mistake and "I blew it" when he challenged whether it was holding IN the End Zone....

@BigKen
@Southieinnc
@nefansince75
@YankeeRebel

Thoughts?

 

[nefansince75]

Well this is a first.. Bill admitted he made a mistake and "I blew it" when he challenged whether it was holding IN the End Zone....

@BigKen
@Southieinnc
@nefansince75
@YankeeRebel

Thoughts?

I thought it was a fine challenge. There was a lot of upside had he been correct.

 

[redseat]

I thought it was a fine challenge. There was a lot of upside had he been correct.

I didn't like it one bit... The hold clearly wasn't IN the end zone... Granted Bill didn't hear what happened but someone has to be in his ear telling him NOT to do it

 

[BigKen]

Bill interpreted it as the "play" was in the end zone. Herbert Feet were on the end line and Bill said that since the play was in the end zone it should be a safety. He was right. NY said that Herbert was not IN the end zone.

If they had agreed, 2 points and the ball.

Here's the other question. If the ball touches the space over the end line, it's a TD. Why wasn't Herbert considered in the end zone??

 

[nefansince75]

Bill interpreted it as the "play" was in the end zone. Herbert Feet were on the end line and Bill said that since the play was in the end zone it should be a safety. He was right. NY said that Herbert was not IN the end zone.

If they had agreed, 2 points and the ball.

Here's the other question. If the ball touches the space over the end line, it's a TD. Why wasn't Herbert considered in the end zone??

Because his back foot went over the end zone and not the ball... That's why the play was challenged, He was gambling that the replay showed the ball crossing while the hold was happening. I was okay (not that I need to be) with the challenge because I really thought it was a conscious gamble with little lost for an extremely high reward.

 

[molsaniceman]

Because his back foot went over the end zone and not the ball... That's why the play was challenged, He was gambling that the replay showed the ball crossing while the hold was happening. I was okay (not that I need to be) with the challenge because I really thought it was a conscious gamble with little lost for an extremely high reward.

the hold has to be in the end zone for it to be a safety which it was on line of scrimmage

 

[nefansince75]

the hold has to be in the end zone for it to be a safety which it was on line of scrimmage

I found this:

SECTION 29 - SAFETY

It is a Safety if the spot of enforcement for a foul by the offense is behind its own goal line, or if the ball is dead in possession of a team on or behind its own goal line when the impetus (3-17) comes from the team defending that goal line.

The enforcement for holding is "the spot of the foul", but that means the spot where the ball is at and not the actual spot of the infraction.

 

[molsaniceman]

I found this:


The enforcement for holding is "the spot of the foul", but that means the spot where the ball is at and not the actual spot of the infraction.

If the holding penalty took place in the end zone, then the play would have resulted in the safety. It’s possible, though, that Belichick got some bad intel and believed the penalty was called on the edge. The actual hold took place in the interior, nowhere near the goal line.

A moderately quick review resulted in the call on the field being upheld. The Patriots lost the challenge and lost a timeout.

 

[nefansince75]

If the holding penalty took place in the end zone, then the play would have resulted in the safety. It’s possible, though, that Belichick got some bad intel and believed the penalty was called on the edge. The actual hold took place in the interior, nowhere near the goal line.

A moderately quick review resulted in the call on the field being upheld. The Patriots lost the challenge and lost a timeout.

The issue is where was the ball when the hold happened. If the ball had crossed the goal line during the hold then it does not matter where the hold happens. If Herbert crosses the goal line and a wide receiver commits a foul fifty yards down field, the result is a safety. Actually I may be off since the foul needs to be a "spot foul" of which holding is.

In this case Herbert came close to passing the goal line but never did. There was only one angle showed on TV (which is the only one coaches can use) so BB didn't have a great perspective, and IMO, challenged per chance another angle showed the ball across the goal line.

 

[Southieinnc]

I thought it was a fine challenge. There was a lot of upside had he been correct.

Best he could do. Bill does not have much experience with the endzone lately......

 

[nefansince75]

Best he could do. Bill does not have much experience with the endzone lately......

He has plenty, but unfortunately it's his own...

That first one Sunday was a beauty, wasn't it?

 

[BigKen]

Patriots-Chargers report cards: Mac Jones was shaky; for once, it’s the other QB getting pressured​

Updated: Nov. 01, 2021, 6:35 a.m. | Published: Nov. 01, 2021, 6:35 a.m.

The Patriots got pressure on Justin Herbert early and often Sunday. (Photo by Joe Scarnici/Getty Images)Getty Images

By Nick O'Malley | [email protected]
The New England Patriots flipped what’s been their usual offensive script Sunday. But it worked well enough to pull out a win over the Los Angeles Chargers -- even if things ran cold in the middle of the game.

Rookie quarterback Mac Jones had shaky moments, uncharacteristically overthrowing receivers for a good stretch of the game. He’s been making those sorts of plays all season.

Meanwhile, the offensive line was solid, giving their quarterback good protection while also paving the way for the running backs to have a solid day.


That’s a big departure from the start of the season, when Jones was making big plays in the face of pressure being let up by his offensive line.


No, instead it was Justin Herbert who was harassed by the opposing pass rush all day. It was more than the three sacks. The pressure on Herbert triggered some key turnovers that swung the game in New England’s favor.


Let’s hand out some grades:


Quarterback


Stats: 18-of-35, 218 yards, 1 sack, 70.9 passer rating


Jones certainly had a hot start to the game, hitting Nelson Agholor on a brilliant 44-yard deep ball. But after that, the rookie quarterback simply didn’t have it.


For the middle portion of the game, Jones was off the mark, overthrowing receivers at a clip we simply haven’t seen all year. Jones was ice cold heading into halftime, finishing the first half on a run of 2-of-13 passing.


Still, Jones battled back to finish strong and hit the throws he needed to in order to close out the game.


It wasn’t perfect, but Jones stepped up and made the plays the team need to finish out the win. More importantly, he avoided making any huge mistakes that led to turnovers. So as deflating as the outing may have seemed, Jones played it smart and didn’t make it worse.


Grade: C-


Running Backs


It wasn’t flashy, but it was effective for the Patriots backs. Damien Harris chugged along for 80 yards and a touchdown on 23 carries. It would have been more, if not for two long runs called back for holding calls.


Meanwhile, Rhamondre Stevenson continues to show promise. He was back on the gameday roster and looks to be getting close to making a big impact.


Brandon Bolden quietly had the best run of the day, scampering for 14 yards on the edge to help get into field goal range.


Grade: C


Wide Receivers


It’s hard to grade receivers on a day where the quarterback had accuracy issues, but there were promising signs.


Agholor finally connected with Jones on a deep ball. He finished with a team-high 60 yards on three catches.


Jakobi Meyers remains the picture of consistency, making some key catches on the day.


Kendrick Bourne had a rough day. He had a pass go off his hands near the goal line early that could have been interception. He then fumbled the ball while the team was in field goal range.


Meanwhile, there was a N’Keal Harry sighting. He finished with 30 yards on two catches, his most promising performance so far.


Grade: C-


Tight Ends


Jonnu Smith is looking better as a safety valve who can catch passes in the flat and make people miss. Still he only had two catches for 13 yards.


Hunter Henry only had one catch, but it did go for 33 yards. However, his biggest play may have been his last, coming up with the ball on the Chargers’ onside kick attempt in the closing seconds.


Grade: C-


Offensive Line


For the second straight week, the Patriots seemed to finally have an offensive line combination that worked. Ted Karras continues to play well at left guard as this unit comes together.


The run blocking ran hot and cold throughout the day, with some miscues resulting in negative plays. Holding penalties on Isaiah Wynn and Justin Herron (who briefly took over for Wynn at left tackle) were especially painful.


But overall, things are looking better up front. Jones has solid protection throughout the day, with L.A. finishing with four QB hits and a sack.


An underrated stat: The Patriots held star defensive end Joey Bosa without a QB hit or sack on Sunday.


Grade: B


Defensive Line


If you haven’t been paying attention to rookie defensive tackle Christian Barmore, you should start now. The second-round pick has emerged as an impact player. Just asked the Chargers, who struggled to block him all day.


Elsewhere, the Patriots had big plays from Deatrich Wise (who batted a key pass) and Lawrence Guy, who came up with a sack.


The run defense had some issues. But on a day where the Patriots needed to get pressure on Herbert, this group stepped up to step in the opposing QB’s face.


Grade: B


Linebackers


There was plenty to like from this group. Matthew Judon remains a menace, terrorizing quarterbacks even as teams send multiple blockers his way. He finished with 1.5 sacks.


Elsewhere, Kyle Van Noy came up with a big batted pass to bust up a drive.


But then were was the 75-yard run by Justin Jackson, where the back absolutely smoked Dont’a Hightower in the open field.


The run defense was sloppy at points, so we’ve got to deduct some points there.


Grade: C+


Cornerbacks


There was good and bad from J.C. Jackson early on. He got toasted by Keenan Allen for a 41-yard catch on the first drive. Then on the second drive, he showed great hustle to track down Jackson on that 75-yard run.


Meanwhile, Jalen Mills stepped up with a nice breakup early before this group really started to lock in and give Herbert trouble.


The stat sheet doesn’t show it, but this group gave the Chargers a lot of trouble up and down the depth chart. Herbert had a shaky day, finishing 18-of-35 for 223 yards. Part of that comes down to the fact that receivers not named Allen combined for just four passes.


Grade: B+


Safeties


Adrian Phillips was the star of the game, coming up with two interceptions, including the pivotal pick-six that swung the game in New England’s favor late.


Phillips also came up with a QB hit, as did young defensive back Myles Bryant, who continues to show flashes of excellence as he gets more playing time.


Devin McCourty quietly had a solid game, coming up with some nice pass breakups, including a late breakup where he knocked the ball loose from a receiver.


Grade: A


Special Teams


Sure, there weren’t any huge plays, turnovers or touchdowns from this group. But special teams slowly but surely kept the game swinging in New England’s favor.


Gunner Olszewski continued his hot streak in L.A. going, returning four points for 80 yards.


Part of that comes down to the blocking, which is easy to miss. But there are a lot of plays where Olszewski camps under the ball while the coverage team has players nearby. But players like Justin Bethel remain relentless in giving their returner time to make something happen. It all adds up to chunks of yardage throughout the day. In games like these, it quietly shifts to momentum in New England’s favor.


Jake Bailey tripled his number of punts from last week, which means he had three. He averaged 48.7 yards per kick and pinned two inside the 20.


Then there’s Nick Folk, who’s been lights-out this season. If he doesn’t hit all four of his kicks, this is a different game. Instead, he improved to 20-of-21 on the season, helping the Patriots improve to 4-4.


Grade: A