For those who think Trout over miggy

[da55bums]

Omar had the same amount of outfield assists.

that actually made me ...I don't care who you are...thats funny

 

[Ronnie]

Just curious.....after 10 pages of posts about the Miggy/Trout MVP decision....has anyone changed their mind about who should have gotten the award? I am sure with all the stats (both old-style and Saber) presented and all the passionate diatribes about the issue - some of you must have changed your mind! If not, seems like a lot of time and effort was wasted. And....I am sure some of the posters, on both sides of the topic, felt they presented irrefutable evidence and would be hurt (and testosterone deprived) if they didn't change ONE persons mind.

Press on

 

[da55bums]

Just curious.....after 10 pages of posts about the Miggy/Trout MVP decision....has anyone changed their mind about who should have gotten the award? I am sure with all the stats (both old-style and Saber) presented and all the passionate diatribes about the issue - some of you must have changed your mind! If not, seems like a lot of time and effort was wasted. And....I am sure some of the posters, on both sides of the topic, felt they presented irrefutable evidence and would be hurt (and testosterone deprived) if they didn't change ONE persons mind.

Press on

Ellsbury, Pedroia or Ortiz should get it...they are the only ones who actually helped their "team" "win" something...let make it a requirement that the player has to play on the team that actually makes it to the WS...both NL and AL..

 

[dougplayer]

soooooo getting to the post season has nothing to do with MVP????
then whats the Most valuable mean????????????????????????

valuable to be standing on first base with a 2 out single????
so its not about winning????? just look good and get on base.
who cares if you drive in runs or drive in runs. as long as your WAR looks good??????

you guys need to put down the pipe!

 

[dougplayer]

Miggy was on track to have his best year. He then got injured. Reports say his operation went well.

2014 could be his finest year. Tiger fans expect a WS ring. Pressure is on him on the rest of the Tigers. BUt we all know it will be mostly on him.

whats pressure Trout have?? not making the play offs..thats for sure. just keep adding up those 2 out singles and make the WAR boys happy. He doesn't have the pressure of winning it all. figure that into the mix ...by the way. 1989 called they want there texas instrument calculators back!

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And Tigers fans talk about Miggy as if he's the greatest hitter to ever live.

Absolutely not -- you can't even consider Miggy as the best hitter of his generation yet. Right now, it is still Pujols, though Miggy has passed him in the last couple years -- what Pujols did in his 1st 10 years gives him that nod.

 

[Cleaves2000]

your kidding right? I will just take it that you are, I know your smarter than this...just stirring the pot...funny though..

Bonds...error totals and fielding percentage throughout his career were consistant, one of his best ever fielding years was 2003, even had one of his better years with 11 Assists in 04 and his SB's did go down at 34 yrs old in 1998 (guessing knee surguries and groin problems if I remember correctly, what did miggy have surgury on?)...no shock there...almost EVERY player to play the game's speed diminished in his mid 30's...Bonds was 36-39 yrs old from 01-04, lol...and he still stole more bases in those 4 years than Miggy as stolen in his 10 year career, at 20 yrs old to 30 yrs old...wow, didn't realize that til now.

Miggy's SB's will drop also around 33 or 34 and his baserunning should drop off also, oh wait...

You were right about one thing, he had 8 gold gloves instead of 7, my bad......but its always entertaining to hear from you on topics, Queeves (if you still don't know what that is, I just can't help you anymore, maybe google it)

So since bonds was old, his baserunning didnt count against him for MVP?

He played LF.....jhonny peralta moved there and did a decent job....a little harder than playing the hot corner...

So you bring up bonds outfield assists?? So how many assists did trout have this year?

Queeves? Yup im older than 12......i dont have to name call on the internet to make a point..

 

[Cleaves2000]

Errors and fielding percentage aren't the greatest ways to evaluate fielding though. Official scorers decide errors. Some players have high fielding percentages, but don't get to very many balls.

FWIW, Bonds actually had a positive UZR/150 in 2002, 2003 and 2004 (UZR only goes back to 2002). DRS has him at +5 IN 2003 and -8 in 2004.

And while Barry wasn't much of a baserunner in his later years, he didn't hit into very many double plays. He grounded into only 21 double plays from 01-04. Miggy grounded into 28 last year. 19 this year.

So now were bringing up grounding into DP's in an MVP talk? Detroits whole lineup hits into DP's. They are all station to station softball runners.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Ellsbury, Pedroia or Ortiz should get it...they are the only ones who actually helped their "team" "win" something...let make it a requirement that the player has to play on the team that actually makes it to the WS...both NL and AL..

Hope thats sarcasm since ortiz doesnt play defense or run the bases too well....thats one guy miggy can actually hang with in those categories.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I hate to say it, but Dougie actually made a really good point. Last year, when the Angels needed Trout the most -- he had his worst month of the season, while the Angels had their best month of the season (W/L wise).

This year -- The Angels were never really in the race to win anything. They finished 18 games out of 1st in their own division.

Also -- for anyone talking about WAR -- i'm still waiting to hear a response. Cabrera's "replacement" at 3rd base is Don Kelly. A career .227 hitter with a .634 OPS. When I read people saying Trout's WAR is this and Trout's WAR is that -- You tell me, replacing 44 homeruns, 138 rbis, .344 BA and 1.078 OPS with Don Kelly is only going to result in a 5 game swing in the standings -- I can't help but laugh.

That is why I am not a fan of some of the sabermetric stats. I think some of them are very useful. Others are nothing more than hypothetical guesses at what would happen. If they wanted to give a truly accurate WAR -- they should look at who will replace the player on his own team, instead using a predetermined set of averages.

 

[da55bums]

I hate to say it, but Dougie actually made a really good point. Last year, when the Angels needed Trout the most -- he had his worst month of the season, while the Angels had their best month of the season (W/L wise).

This year -- The Angels were never really in the race to win anything. They finished 18 games out of 1st in their own division.

Also -- for anyone talking about WAR -- i'm still waiting to hear a response. Cabrera's "replacement" at 3rd base is Don Kelly. A career .227 hitter with a .634 OPS. When I read people saying Trout's WAR is this and Trout's WAR is that -- You tell me, replacing 44 homeruns, 138 rbis, .344 BA and 1.078 OPS with Don Kelly is only going to result in a 5 game swing in the standings -- I can't help but laugh.

That is why I am not a fan of some of the sabermetric stats. I think some of them are very useful. Others are nothing more than hypothetical guesses at what would happen. If they wanted to give a truly accurate WAR -- they should look at who will replace the player on his own team, instead using a predetermined set of averages.

lol, dude....Miggie's worst month of the season was in the PLAYOFFS...hilarious...forget it, you can't fix homerizm...good luck..

 

[da55bums]

Hope thats sarcasm since ortiz doesnt play defense or run the bases too well....thats one guy miggy can actually hang with in those categories.

lol, what tie goes to the runner...lol...yep, Miggy wins, Ortiz is just stuck with a ring...lol

 

[da55bums]

So since bonds was old, his baserunning didnt count against him for MVP?

He played LF.....jhonny peralta moved there and did a decent job....a little harder than playing the hot corner...

So you bring up bonds outfield assists?? So how many assists did trout have this year?

Queeves? Yup im older than 12......i dont have to name call on the internet to make a point..

I said Miggy is MVP....Trout isn't, lol...not sure still of your point...have no idea of your other babble...lastly, then you do know what it means and you were lieing before when you said you had no idea...

Does it suck to be related to Vice and Percy Snow....lol.....either way, your brilliant beyond your years, lol.

 

[da55bums]

Miggy was on track to have his best year. He then got injured. Reports say his operation went well.

2014 could be his finest year. Tiger fans expect a WS ring. Pressure is on him on the rest of the Tigers. BUt we all know it will be mostly on him.

whats pressure Trout have?? not making the play offs..thats for sure. just keep adding up those 2 out singles and make the WAR boys happy. He doesn't have the pressure of winning it all. figure that into the mix ...by the way. 1989 called they want there texas instrument calculators back!

now that last line "by the way. 1989 called they want there texas instrument calculators back"....might be the funniest line that has ever hit "hooplas" "shitlas" whatever you call it...

It is easiest Dougie's best line I have ever seen in what 4 or 5 years....wow, that one is really freakin funny....I actually might reuse it...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

lol, dude....Miggie's worst month of the season was in the PLAYOFFS...hilarious...forget it, you can't fix homerizm...good luck..

really? september -- Cabrera had 1 home run and 7 rbi's. the home run was his ONLY extra base hit in 23 games played. in 11 playoffs games, he had 2 homeruns and 7 rbi's.

so you can say the PLAYOFFS was his worst month, but he was brutal down the stretch, when the sports hernia stopped allowing him to use his legs at all with his swing.

 

[navamind]

soooooo getting to the post season has nothing to do with MVP????
then whats the Most valuable mean????????????????????????

valuable to be standing on first base with a 2 out single????
so its not about winning????? just look good and get on base.
who cares if you drive in runs or drive in runs. as long as your WAR looks good??????

you guys need to put down the pipe!

There's many factors into teams making the playoffs that a single player can't control.

You need to put down the rose-colored glasses.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

There's many factors into teams making the playoffs that a single player can't control.

You need to put down the rose-colored glasses.

I have no clue what the answer to this question is -- but when is the last time a player won the MVP in the AL while playing on a team that didn't make the playoffs?

 

[navamind]

A-Rod in 2003, on the 71-91 Rangers.

2003 Awards Voting - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[Ronnie]

After reading these 150+ posts, I am sure a lot of people have changed their views on the AL MVP vote. After all, that is what debate is all about....changing a person' point of view. How many have changed their position on the Miggy/Trout debate? Raise your hand.

BTW....what is the date where one side or the other is declared victorious?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

A-Rod in 2003, on the 71-91 Rangers.

So all it takes to win the MVP on a losing team is to lead the league in home runs, 2nd in RBI's, lead the league in runs scored and total bases, while winning a gold glove at Shortstop.

Trout has the lead the league in runs scored down -- he just needs to add the rest and move to shortstop and he is a shoe in.