For those who think Trout over miggy

[jalopy]

What is so confusing to you?

Now that you bring it up, I have never understood how a blind knows when to stop wiping.

The award is called the most VALUABLE player.

Valuable, derived from value. So you are saying that the value of a player is determined by how his teammates perform? Because if the Angels had the Tigers starting rotation, they likely make the playoffs. Explain to me again how Miggy helps JV and the boys because we know it isn't with his glove.

 

[Hambombs]

Miggy is the best hitter in baseball yes. But mike trout does a bizillion things better than Cabrera

 

[broncosmitty]

I'd much rather have Miggy than Trout. (So long as were talking one year deals.) I would have rather had Pujols over everyone in his prime. ARod over everyone in his. Bonds over everyone in his. No one player brings more to a team than the best hitter in the game.

 

[broncosmitty]

Miggy is the best hitter in baseball yes. But mike trout does a bizillion things better than Cabrera

Striking out and running fast, there's two. What are the others?

 

[dougplayer]

so trout never gets a sniff of a play off game in the next 10 years and he is a MVP?
trout is a dam fine player. BUt he aint no MVP.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Explain to me again how Miggy helps JV and the boys because we know it isn't with his glove.

Are you serious with this question? It doesn't matter how good you pitch if your team isn't scoring runs for you. How did Miggy help JV and the boys? Does 44 homeruns, 138 rbi's, 103 runs scored, a .442 OBP, a .636 SLG% and 1.078 OPS? Does that help out his pitchers?

How about hitting .397 with RISP? How about .459 with RISP and 2 outs? How about hitting .400 with the bases loaded? It didn't matter if it was home (Cabrera hit .361) or away (Cabrera hit .336). It didn't matter if it was day (Cabrera hit .348) or night (Cabrera hit .348). He is produced game after game.

Is that enough for how he helped JV and the boys? The last month of the season, when Detroit has some of it weakest schedule left playing the White Sox twice, Miami, Minnesota, etc. and Cabrera's injury was at its worst -- Detroit played .500 baseball.

Coincidence that their worst month of the season record wise came when Cabrera had his worst month hitting for the Tigers?

 

[Cleaves2000]

So you would rather have Peralta than Inglesis with that logic, correct?

Why? Iggy should of won MVP over miggy....hes a great defender AND a better runner than miggy.....thats all that matters right?

Trout does a bazillion things better? Like what? Im sure what he does better than miggy, alot of other players do too.....but nobody puts fear into pitchers like miggy does.....and miggy isnt a bad baserunner.....he was hurt this year.....hes actually one of detroits better and smarter baserunners.....and the whole myth that miggy gave up so many runs playing 3rd base.....i watched pretty much every game this year....i didnt see him hurt us on defense much, until he got hurt....the tigers pitchers record alot of K's.....but i cant sit here and remember him blowing a game for us on defense when healthy.


How did bonds win 4 straight MVP's??? That guy couldnt field or run the bases well.

 

[Cleaves2000]

I DO think team success shouldn't be a factor. I believe it is MORE impressive for a player to put up offensive numbers when the rest of their team sucks. Do you think if Miggy were on the Astros he would put up those numbers? Would that make him less valuable?

If he was on the astros he prolly would of hit 50-55 HR's playing in that park......or while losing 8-0 he would get a pitch to hit........i guess you forgot about the bad florida teams miggy played on......he put up great numbers there...


If i was starting a team it would be a no brainer.....miggy everytime.....only reason you take trout is his age.....but give me miggy short term EVERYTIME.



Just think if rickey henderson played today......he would/should win the MVP every year stealing all those bases......he makes trout look like fielder on the base paths......rickey would have 50+ SB's by the AS break.......ozzie smiths defense would win him MVP too eh? Even when their teams have a losing record.


2 straight years miggy beats trout.....the people paid to get it right.....got it right.......glad nerds dont vote.


Miggy MVP

 

[da55bums]

Why? Iggy should of won MVP over miggy....hes a great defender AND a better runner than miggy.....thats all that matters right?

Trout does a bazillion things better? Like what? Im sure what he does better than miggy, alot of other players do too.....but nobody puts fear into pitchers like miggy does.....and miggy isnt a bad baserunner.....he was hurt this year.....hes actually one of detroits better and smarter baserunners.....and the whole myth that miggy gave up so many runs playing 3rd base.....i watched pretty much every game this year....i didnt see him hurt us on defense much, until he got hurt....the tigers pitchers record alot of K's.....but i cant sit here and remember him blowing a game for us on defense when healthy.


How did bonds win 4 straight MVP's??? That guy couldnt field or run the bases well.

do WHAT? Bonds had 7 gold gloves (3 in seasons he won MVP), over 500 SBs...holy crap, what do you call a guy who can field and run the bases?

Hey I agree Miggy was the MVP last year and this year but you blew it with the Bonds statement.

 

[jalopy]

Are you serious with this question? It doesn't matter how good you pitch if your team isn't scoring runs for you. How did Miggy help JV and the boys? Does 44 homeruns, 138 rbi's, 103 runs scored, a .442 OBP, a .636 SLG% and 1.078 OPS? Does that help out his pitchers?

How about hitting .397 with RISP? How about .459 with RISP and 2 outs? How about hitting .400 with the bases loaded? It didn't matter if it was home (Cabrera hit .361) or away (Cabrera hit .336). It didn't matter if it was day (Cabrera hit .348) or night (Cabrera hit .348). He is produced game after game.

Is that enough for how he helped JV and the boys? The last month of the season, when Detroit has some of it weakest schedule left playing the White Sox twice, Miami, Minnesota, etc. and Cabrera's injury was at its worst -- Detroit played .500 baseball.

Coincidence that their worst month of the season record wise came when Cabrera had his worst month hitting for the Tigers?

You don't get what you don't get. I've heard that ignorance is bliss, you know that firsthand.

 

[Hambombs]

Striking out and running fast, there's two. What are the others?

Fielding the ball, baserunning. He plays both sides of the game which is why I like him better. While still hitting at an elite level

 

[Hambombs]

so trout never gets a sniff of a play off game in the next 10 years and he is a MVP?
trout is a dam fine player. BUt he aint no MVP.

What does playoffs have to donwoth anything??? It's a team game. If you're talking about best player individulally trout in my mind is no doubt MVp

 

[Hambombs]

Miggy Cabrera is like Kevin durant of the nba while mike trout is lebron James cause he has a great all around game. Durant can do some other things decently well but trout does everything at a great level. Except his throwing arm

 

[navamind]

What does playoffs have to donwoth anything??? It's a team game. If you're talking about best player individulally trout in my mind is no doubt MVp

Didn't you read the rules? MVP can only go to the best player on postseason teams. :rollseyes:

 

[Bulldog]

actually i would rather pick cabrera on my team... Miggy affects lineups more than trout ever will... Any pitcher would rather face trout than miggy... I can get defensive strong with lesser players and i am fine with that... But i would rather have the best hitter than the best player on my team any day... There is nothing better than having miguel cabrera up at bat when the game is on line...

Remember the Pujols game winning HR in the playoffs vs Houston??

Cabrera may affect a lineup but no player in baseball affects a game like Trout. Cabrera is more likely to hit a HR thats a fact. But that's the only degree of separation that Cabrera has over Trout. Cabrera gets on base with a single and it may take two or three more hits to score him. Trout not only affects a game with his bat but with his legs and glove. How often does someone hit a game winning HR? Try combining the games Trout wins with his bat legs and glove as opposed to what Cabrera wins solely with his bat. There's not a general manager or a manager in baseball that would take Cabrera on their team over Trout.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You don't get what you don't get. I've heard that ignorance is bliss, you know that firsthand.

Uhhh -- here is the question you asked:

Explain to me again how Miggy helps JV and the boys because we know it isn't with his glove.

Are you telling me that being the most dominant offensive player in all of baseball isn't helping out his pitchers? With your logic -- It shouldn't have mattered that Cabrera struggled with injuries in September -- JV and the boys don't need him.

Detroit should have steamrolled teams in September as their schedule was filled with losing teams. Instead -- Cabrera struggled at the plate and Detroit struggled on the field.

Hell -- 3 of the last 4 starts for Verlander (including the postseason) -- Detroit lost 1-0. Doesn't matter how good you pitch -- if you don't score, you can't win.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Cabrera may affect a lineup but no player in baseball affects a game like Trout. Cabrera is more likely to hit a HR thats a fact. But that's the only degree of separation that Cabrera has over Trout. Cabrera gets on base with a single and it may take two or three more hits to score him. Trout not only affects a game with his bat but with his legs and glove. How often does someone hit a game winning HR? Try combining the games Trout wins with his bat legs and glove as opposed to what Cabrera wins solely with his bat. There's not a general manager or a manager in baseball that would take Cabrera on their team over Trout.

Here is my question -- since Trout does all these things with his legs and glove. How is it possible to only score 6 more runs than Cabrera, while having 60 more ABs? I keep hearing how Trout takes the extra base, turns walks into doubles, etc. That should equate into many more runs.

And defensively -- Trout didn't have a single outfield assist in 148 games. Not one.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Here is my question -- since Trout does all these things with his legs and glove. How is it possible to only score 6 more runs than Cabrera, while having 60 more ABs? I keep hearing how Trout takes the extra base, turns walks into doubles, etc. That should equate into many more runs.

And defensively -- Trout didn't have a single outfield assist in 148 games. Not one.

1) Power hitters tend to score more runs. Jim Thome, Frank Thomas, Manny Ramirez, etc...you've watched baseball outside of Detroit to know that guys who hit 40+ tend to have an easier time scoring 100+ runs, since 40 runs are accounted alone by HRs, no?

2) Shall we look at the guys who hit behind Trout with RISP and runners on?
Trumbo - .222 AVG, .702 OPS w/RISP; /.228 AVG, .750 OPS with runners on
Pujols - .303 AVG, .836 OPS w/RISP ; / .280 AVG, .790 OPS w/runners on
Hamilton - .225 AVG, .624 OPS w/RISP / .224 AVG, .657 OPS w/runners on

You don't having guys like Trumbo/Hamilton hitting behind you will hurt your chances of scoring runs if they hit that poorly w/runners on and RISP? If you think otherwise, I'm not hesitating to say that's the most foolish thing I've read on the board this week (and there's been a lot of foolish things said).

 

[Bulldog]

Here is my question -- since Trout does all these things with his legs and glove. How is it possible to only score 6 more runs than Cabrera, while having 60 more ABs? I keep hearing how Trout takes the extra base, turns walks into doubles, etc. That should equate into many more runs.

And defensively -- Trout didn't have a single outfield assist in 148 games. Not one.

Run's scored is an easy one to answer, take a look at total runs scored for the Tigers vs the Angels. Trout hasd to have teammates who can drive in runs. That's what made Trout's numbers even more incredible, Angels as a team, outside of Trout and Trumbo, were pathetic driving in runs. No one ever said Trout had the strongest arm and for the most part base runners didn't really challenge him. He saved lots of runs with his glove and legs though, something Cabrera knows nothing about.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Run's scored is an easy one to answer, take a look at total runs scored for the Tigers vs the Angels. Trout hasd to have teammates who can drive in runs. That's what made Trout's numbers even more incredible, Angels as a team, outside of Trout and Trumbo, were pathetic driving in runs. No one ever said Trout had the strongest arm and for the most part base runners didn't really challenge him. He saved lots of runs with his glove and legs though, something Cabrera knows nothing about.

Even Trumbo wasn't any good at hitting w/RISP and runners on

If you look at the Angels' lineup, the only everyday player other than Trout who wasn't relatively mediocre or worse with RISP was Pujols, and he only played in 100 games.

Los Angeles Angels 2013 Batting / Hitting Statistics - ESPN