Comissioner Goodell makes it very clear: Tom Brady cannot hide

[cdumler7]

Also there are a lot of jobs that do require random drug and alcohol tests. It is in the contract you sign so your refusal is actually just as guilty as that of peeing positive. It is the same in the NFL that if a player refuses to pee then it is on the level of admission of guilt. If it is in the contract then anybody has to abide by that or be willing to suffer the consequences. For Brady he broke his contract by refusing to fully cooperate in an investigation. So did the team. This is very black and white and every player and team knows that this is part of signing up to be in the NFL. So yes he by the leagues standards is required to hand over the parts of his phone that deal with the investigation. He refuses to do that then yes it is still on the same level as that of admitting guilt. If he doesn't like that this is the standard then he can go find a job elsewhere.

 

[chappee11]

So you think the Wells Report has every little detail that was actually handed over to the NFL? If that is the case then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona for you to buy.

As for the penalty it has a lot more to do with the fact that the team tried to hide something more so than the actual offense. In all those other incidents players or teams were caught and fessed up to it. The Patriots on the other hand threatened lawsuits against the league.

I would also guess the league has more evidence to the idea that this has been going on for a very long time. This isn't a one game incident but something that has been done for years. So yes one violation in one game probably not worth dropping the hammer. Evidence that shows 7 or so years of this though would definitely be worth dropping the hammer and if that is the case then honestly the Pats got off easy. Again this is speculation just like what you are doing.

Why would the NFL pay Wells something like $6m to leave out the best evidence from his report? That doesn't make sense.

And the other cases had photographic evidence. Ray Rice never fessed up to punching his girlfriend.

And if this deflating shit has been going on for 7 years(or whatever), I would expect to see that in the report as well. The NFL dropped the Hammer because the Pats had the gall to not comply as much as the NFL deemed necessary. That was it.

 

[chappee11]

If it is going to clear my name, I could give a shit less. Let's say they search Brady's phone and they find a text that say's Gesele just had phone sex with me (in the most graphic possible way). Do you think the NFL is going to say "guess what we know about Tom and Giselel?

The ONLY reason you hide anything is if you have something to hide.

BTW- I don't do drugs so the drug test thing has zero significance to me. I suppose if Tom got busted for drugs, there would be a whole new set of issues he has to deal with.

Don't say it's the ONLY reason. If the cops come to my door and want to search my house, they'd better have a warrant. Again, this is about personal property and privacy. Do you hand over your cell phone to your employer if they ask for it? No?? You must have something to hide, right?

 

[chappee11]

Also there are a lot of jobs that do require random drug and alcohol tests. It is in the contract you sign so your refusal is actually just as guilty as that of peeing positive. It is the same in the NFL that if a player refuses to pee then it is on the level of admission of guilt. If it is in the contract then anybody has to abide by that or be willing to suffer the consequences. For Brady he broke his contract by refusing to fully cooperate in an investigation. So did the team. This is very black and white and every player and team knows that this is part of signing up to be in the NFL. So yes he by the leagues standards is required to hand over the parts of his phone that deal with the investigation. He refuses to do that then yes it is still on the same level as that of admitting guilt. If he doesn't like that this is the standard then he can go find a job elsewhere.

This is all correct. Brady is required to take a drug test if the NFL asks him. He's not required to turn over his personal property, however. Anymore than they can search his car.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Who, Brady or Kraft? If we are talking about Kraft, I would use the Jim Irsay example as a decent precedent. Also the Wells report specifically cleared Belichick and Kraft of any wrongdoing. Based on that, Goodell handed out the stiffest penalties ever?

As for Brady, I just don't think the Wells report proved anything. It's all conjecture and trying a little-too-hard to connect the dots. In the other cases of ball tampering involving heating the balls and SD using "sticky towels" the NFL gave out nominal fines. Now all of a sudden they want to enforce this rule with an iron fist? Also, Ray Rice getting 2 games and PED cheats getting 4 games. None of this ads up to me.

Do I think the Pats were up to something? Yeah, I probably do. I just don't see how these penalties add up.

C'mon man. If I am under investigation, search everything. The only reason I give a shit is if I am guilty of something. Especially if I am paid millions of dollars. This can't really be your argument.

 

[cdumler7]

Why would the NFL pay Wells something like $6m to leave out the best evidence from his report? That doesn't make sense.

And the other cases had photographic evidence. Ray Rice never fessed up to punching his girlfriend.

And if this deflating shit has been going on for 7 years(or whatever), I would expect to see that in the report as well. The NFL dropped the Hammer because the Pats had the gall to not comply as much as the NFL deemed necessary. That was it.

Well there were signs that they pointed to that this wasn't an isolated incident such as 3 teams this past year commenting about the footballs or that in 2004 the team and especially McNally was warned about them trying to use illegal balls during games. So yes there are signs throughout the report of this. Also the not revealing everything could be a little of protecting the NFL in general. I mean if it was found the Patriots had done this for years the fans and the media would want Brady kicked out of the league for good. This does the league no good considering the money Brady helps bring in. It also hurts one of their most profitable teams. You don't think the NFL would try to protect their investment? If so then you really don't know the NFL.

 

[cdumler7]

This is all correct. Brady is required to take a drug test if the NFL asks him. He's not required to turn over his personal property, however. Anymore than they can search his car.

He is however required to cooperate in any NFL investigation. That is written right into his contract. So the fact the team would not allow McNally to be interviewed again, Brady wouldn't turn over any texts that dealt directly with the case, and other things of that nature then yes that is not fully cooperating with the NFL investigation. Yes they cannot legally ask him to hand over his cell phone. They can however suspend him for not following what his contract says he is supposed to. That is their legal right.

 

[chappee11]

C'mon man. If I am under investigation, search everything. The only reason I give a shit is if I am guilty of something. Especially if I am paid millions of dollars. This can't really be your argument.

No. It actually is a big part of it. Why is the NFL entitled to his cellphone?

 

[chappee11]

Well there were signs that they pointed to that this wasn't an isolated incident such as 3 teams this past year commenting about the footballs or that in 2004 the team and especially McNally was warned about them trying to use illegal balls during games. So yes there are signs throughout the report of this. Also the not revealing everything could be a little of protecting the NFL in general. I mean if it was found the Patriots had done this for years the fans and the media would want Brady kicked out of the league for good. This does the league no good considering the money Brady helps bring in. It also hurts one of their most profitable teams. You don't think the NFL would try to protect their investment? If so then you really don't know the NFL.

I agree with the money part, for sure. But I just think if this goes back for YEARS, the web gets bigger and more and more people would know about it. Harder to keep that sort of story "under wraps".

 

[chappee11]

He is however required to cooperate in any NFL investigation. That is written right into his contract. So the fact the team would not allow McNally to be interviewed again, Brady wouldn't turn over any texts that dealt directly with the case, and other things of that nature then yes that is not fully cooperating with the NFL investigation. Yes they cannot legally ask him to hand over his cell phone. They can however suspend him for not following what his contract says he is supposed to. That is their legal right.

Didn't they make McNally available like 4 times? I just don't think that failure to surrender his cellphone is an admission of guilt. And they already have the phones of the 2 guys anyway. They already have the texts that Brady sent as a result. Unless he was texting himself.

 

[cdumler7]

Didn't they make McNally available like 4 times? I just don't think that failure to surrender his cellphone is an admission of guilt. And they already have the phones of the 2 guys anyway. They already have the texts that Brady sent as a result. Unless he was texting himself.

They said a bunch of the texts were deleted and they could not recover them. So getting Brady's phone to see if there is something different makes a huge difference. Throw in the deleting of texts like that should be a huge flag plus throw in Brady refusing to turn over his phone while yes being circumstantial shows signs of something bad happening behind the scenes

 

[chappee11]

They said a bunch of the texts were deleted and they could not recover them. So getting Brady's phone to see if there is something different makes a huge difference. Throw in the deleting of texts like that should be a huge flag plus throw in Brady refusing to turn over his phone while yes being circumstantial shows signs of something bad happening behind the scenes

Maybe so. But at the end of the day, it's just air in the football. Nobody had ever heard of this rule prior to the AFCCG. Is it even an advantage? They destroyed the Colts with the "proper" footballs in the 2nd half of that game. They won the Super Bowl with "proper" footballs. I think everyone wants to pretend the 2% less PSI is really a bigger deal than it is. If you want to believe that Brady is better off beating a woman or failing a drug test than this crap, I'm not going to change your mind.

 

[cdumler7]

Maybe so. But at the end of the day, it's just air in the football. Nobody had ever heard of this rule prior to the AFCCG. Is it even an advantage? They destroyed the Colts with the "proper" footballs in the 2nd half of that game. They won the Super Bowl with "proper" footballs. I think everyone wants to pretend the 2% less PSI is really a bigger deal than it is. If you want to believe that Brady is better off beating a woman or failing a drug test than this crap, I'm not going to change your mind.

I don't find it to be a big deal. The lying to the public and to the NFL is what bothers me so much more. The whole everyone will have to apologize for even speaking ill of the Patriots attitude is what upsets me more. They treated us all like we were idiots when they were the ones cheating. I would respect Brady, Kraft, and BB a whole lot more if they would stop acting so high and mighty and that they are above the rest of us. Same with some Patriot fans.

 

[GenJac]

I don't find it to be a big deal. The lying to the public and to the NFL is what bothers me so much more. The whole everyone will have to apologize for even speaking ill of the Patriots attitude is what upsets me more. They treated us all like we were idiots when they were the ones cheating. I would respect Brady, Kraft, and BB a whole lot more if they would stop acting so high and mighty and that they are above the rest of us. Same with some Patriot fans.

Hear, hear!

 

[WizardHawk]

Didn't they make McNally available like 4 times? I just don't think that failure to surrender his cellphone is an admission of guilt. And they already have the phones of the 2 guys anyway. They already have the texts that Brady sent as a result. Unless he was texting himself.

McNally was made available a total of 4 times, yes. It was said that most of them were to the league before the wells group. I think Wells only spoke to him once and asked for a follow up with him and said he would go to wherever this individual wanted to meet at a time that worked for for them.

What Wells was asking for was not unreasonable, and in fact was quite accommodating.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Don't say it's the ONLY reason. If the cops come to my door and want to search my house, they'd better have a warrant. Again, this is about personal property and privacy. Do you hand over your cell phone to your employer if they ask for it? No?? You must have something to hide, right?

You know I once had a situation. I was driving a pickup that I usually only use to run to the dump. Turns out it had a burned out headlight. Got pulled over and got the 1 first degree about it. They wanted my consent to not only search my truck, but bring dogs in to sniff my truck. Really weird, because I was just a middle age white dude with a history of being law abiding. As was my wife who was also in the truck. Turns out the law enforcement was on some kind of campaign tocrush drugs. Didn't have a problem with it, I know they won't find crap, because I didn't use even pot any more.

Tom Brady has something to hide, plain and simple.

 

[chappee11]

McNally was made available a total of 4 times, yes. It was said that most of them were to the league before the wells group. I think Wells only spoke to him once and asked for a follow up with him and said he would go to wherever this individual wanted to meet at a time that worked for for them.

What Wells was asking for was not unreasonable, and in fact was quite accommodating.

I'm not sure about that. Are you one of those that believes the "5th time is a charm"? Seriously. How hard are these questions to ask?

 

[WizardHawk]

I'm not sure about that. Are you one of those that believes the "5th time is a charm"? Seriously. How hard are these questions to ask?

What part of that didn't you get? Wells didn't ask to speak to him 5 times. Yes, this guy lives quite a ways away and has another full time job. Wells offered to meet him at his convenience. How is that outrageous? Right, it's not.

 

[chappee11]

You know I once had a situation. I was driving a pickup that I usually only use to run to the dump. Turns out it had a burned out headlight. Got pulled over and got the 1 first degree about it. They wanted my consent to not only search my truck, but bring dogs in to sniff my truck. Really weird, because I was just a middle age white dude with a history of being law abiding. As was my wife who was also in the truck. Turns out the law enforcement was on some kind of campaign tocrush drugs. Didn't have a problem with it, I know they won't find crap, because I didn't use even pot any more.

Tom Brady has something to hide, plain and simple.

You just assume he has the "smoking gun" text on his phone. I think they could have recovered that from the "deleted" texts on the phones they did have. If the texts are so easy to delete, why didn't the Pats just delete them all?

 

[chappee11]

What part of that didn't you get? Wells didn't ask to speak to him 5 times. Yes, this guy lives quite a ways away and has another full time job. Wells offered to meet him at his convenience. How is that outrageous? Right, it's not.

How hard is it to get your list of questions ready for the ballboy?