Game Thread: Chicago Bears @ Seattle Seahawks

[flyerhawk]

28 teams lose in the WC or divisional round every year? making the playoffs is the minimum, winning a few WC games is a disappointment. battered wives syndrome has set in here.

28 teams never reach the conference championship games every year. 88% of teams don't make the conference championship game every year. So, based on your standard, 88% of football teams are mediocre every year.

Of course losing in the wildcard or divisional round is disappointing. Not winning the Super Bowl is disappointing. And we are at a point where most of us agree that it is time to go in a new direction. That doesn't mean that the Seahawks have been mediocre. That's just a dumb thing to say.

we only disagree on trading wilson then

Pretty much.

maybe there is a correlation between having a QB taking up 25-30% of your cap and not winning any superbowls. id bet if you looked at the numbers you would see that its true.

Certainly it would be better to have a QB on a rookie QB. But Aaron Rodgers is consistently getting to conference championship games. Patrick Mahomes went to the Super Bowl last year with the highest salary in football. The reality is that unless you can get lucky in the draft and pick an elite QB who is immediately impactful, you are going to pay your QB a huge chunk of your salary cap.

according to some reports she isnt happy and might pull the trigger on changes.

We can all hope that she will do something.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

"Not for one reason at all am I thinking that we have to restart this whole thing and create a new philosophy and a new approach and all that," he told 710 ESPN Seattle on Monday. "I don't think that. I think we've got the essence of the things that we need. We've got to build on them, we've got to support it better and we've got to continue to grow and progress. There ain't no standing still, but there's the foundation for doing things."

Carroll says Seahawks need to retool, not rebuild

As the Seattle Seahawks wind down their worst season in more than a decade, coach Pete Carroll doesn't believe a "restart" is in order.

www.espn.com

So.... we'll get more of the same next year.... I feel like with that comment Wilson will want out. I dunno why Carroll is saying that....

Wagner is on borrowed time. Yes he made the pro bowl (whatever that means now) and led the league in tackles, but he's 100% lost a step in coverage and can no longer keep up with the younger receivers/runningbacks. HOF, but he's running out of time.
Brooks is solid against the run but one of the worst pass coverage linebackers in the league so he can't really 'replace' Wagner.
Diggs may hold out for an extension and he'll want a decent chunk.
Adams is starting to pile up the injuries.
Outside of Poona Ford the DL sucks and can't consistently get pressure against GOOD teams. There's some potential here, but we've been hearing that for a while.

As for the offense, Wilson may want out (and has lost a lot of his mobility/agility, and the finger still seems to be a nagging issue as he misses wide open easy targets), DK will be right behind him (and someone will overpay for his potential), the RB situation needs a COMPLETE rebuild as Carson is done, Penny is gone, etc. The run blocking from the Seahawks is not good and they built the OL with their draft picks/FA acquisitions to be pass pro first. Everett and Lockett are about the only positives here.


RETOOL!? No philosophy change? UGH.... same ol' Seahawks complete with Ken Norton Jr. for the foreseeable future if Carroll is around.

 

[flyerhawk]

"Not for one reason at all am I thinking that we have to restart this whole thing and create a new philosophy and a new approach and all that," he told 710 ESPN Seattle on Monday. "I don't think that. I think we've got the essence of the things that we need. We've got to build on them, we've got to support it better and we've got to continue to grow and progress. There ain't no standing still, but there's the foundation for doing things."

Carroll says Seahawks need to retool, not rebuild

As the Seattle Seahawks wind down their worst season in more than a decade, coach Pete Carroll doesn't believe a "restart" is in order.

www.espn.com

So.... we'll get more of the same next year.... I feel like with that comment Wilson will want out. I dunno why Carroll is saying that....

Wagner is on borrowed time. Yes he made the pro bowl (whatever that means now) and led the league in tackles, but he's 100% lost a step in coverage and can no longer keep up with the younger receivers/runningbacks. HOF, but he's running out of time.
Brooks is solid against the run but one of the worst pass coverage linebackers in the league so he can't really 'replace' Wagner.
Diggs may hold out for an extension and he'll want a decent chunk.
Adams is starting to pile up the injuries.
Outside of Poona Ford the DL sucks and can't consistently get pressure against GOOD teams. There's some potential here, but we've been hearing that for a while.

As for the offense, Wilson may want out, DK will be right behind him (and someone will overpay for his potential), the RB situation needs a COMPLETE rebuild as Carson is done, Penny is gone, etc. The run blocking from the Seahawks is not good and they built the OL with their draft picks/FA acquisitions to be pass pro first. Everett and Lockett are about the only positives here.


RETOOL!? No philosophy change? UGH.... same ol' Seahawks complete with Ken Norton Jr. for the foreseeable future if Carroll is around.

Well of course Pete is going to say that they need to retool, not rebuild. If we are going to rebuild then we certainly aren't going to do it with a 71 year old coach.

I think Brooks made some huge strides this year. The guy is 3rd in the league in tackles this year and seemed to be everywhere. He still needs to work on zone coverage techniques but he's also in his 2nd year in the league.

I think Darrell Taylor looks like the real deal. Robinson shows promise as well. Dunlap is fine in limited use situations. We definitely need someone who can set the edge on strong side as I think Collier looks to be league average. But I also think that the DL was asked to do too much because offenses were able to pick apart our cover-3. For that system to work you need to generate turnovers and this defense just doesn't do that enough for cover-3 to work.

On offense, I think it will come down to Russ or Pete. I actually said this last offseason. I think if we can bring back Penny on the cheap then we should do so. But we definitely need a more reliable RB. And we need another quality receiver that can cause trouble for defenses. Swain and Hart don't seem capable of doing it.

 

[Anointed One]

How many franchise players do we have on the roster that we can build around for years? IMO, not many...

Jordyn Brooks
Darrell Taylor
Tre Brown
Diggs
D. Lewis
M. Dickson
Adams (only because he has a new contract)

That's about it right now... I don't really see anyone on offense outside of Lewis that we can build around on that side of the ball...

On the fence with Metcalf... How much money do you think he'd want in a new contract? I don't want to put a lot of money into that position... He drops too many balls and doesn't have a few good catch radius... He also doesn't run great routes... IOW's, he's no D Hopkins... I'd almost rather trade him if we're going to reboot...

Seems like w/out the draft capital, players to build around, we're stuck in needing to reboot instead of reload mode...

 

[flyerhawk]

How many franchise players do we have on the roster that we can build around for years? IMO, not many...

Jordyn Brooks
Darrell Taylor
Tre Brown
Diggs
D. Lewis
M. Dickson
Adams (only because he has a new contract)

That's about it right now... I don't really see anyone on offense outside of Lewis that we can build around on that side of the ball...

On the fence with Metcalf... How much money do you think he'd want in a new contract? I don't want to put a lot of money into that position... He drops too many balls and doesn't have a few good catch radius... He also doesn't run great routes... IOW's, he's no D Hopkins... I'd almost rather trade him if we're going to reboot...

Seems like w/out the draft capital, players to build around, we're stuck in needing to reboot instead of reload mode...

Lockett, Wilson and Metcalf are all franchise type players. I think Poona and Robinson are quality players.

We are missing some pieces for sure. Every team is missing pieces. IMO, a huge part of the problem is that we just aren't maximizing the talents of the team. Pete is simply unwilling to change his approach because he believes that running the ball and good defense wins championships. Which is true. But when your offense only gets 6 possessions in a game because the other team has the ball the whole time it is close to impossible to establish the run and you don't have a good defense if it is giving up 400 yards a game. We had the same issues with the Dennis Erickson teams.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Our cabin had 3 feet of snow this weekend... We spent Christmas there... Sledding, snowshoeing, etc.... It was beautiful.... Right on the Canadian border...

Sweet , what town is this ? You’re East near the Canadian border ? Looks nice

 

[Anointed One]

Sweet , what town is this ? You’re East near the Canadian border ? Looks nice

Deep Lake, right above Northport (Outside of Colville, WA near the border)...

 

[Anointed One]

Lockett, Wilson and Metcalf are all franchise type players. I think Poona and Robinson are quality players.

We are missing some pieces for sure. Every team is missing pieces. IMO, a huge part of the problem is that we just aren't maximizing the talents of the team. Pete is simply unwilling to change his approach because he believes that running the ball and good defense wins championships. Which is true. But when your offense only gets 6 possessions in a game because the other team has the ball the whole time it is close to impossible to establish the run and you don't have a good defense if it is giving up 400 yards a game. We had the same issues with the Dennis Erickson teams.

I didn't include Lockett and Wilson since they will be coming up on their 3rd contract...

When your team leads the league in 3 and outs and your QB has the worst rating on 3rd down it puts the defense into a tough position... For example, against Chicago, our offense only had one 3rd down in the 2nd half...

 

[flyerhawk]

I didn't include Lockett and Wilson since they will be coming up on their 3rd contract...

When your team leads the league in 3 and outs and your QB has the worst rating on 3rd down it puts the defense into a tough position... For example, against Chicago, our offense only had one 3rd down in the 2nd half...

Yeah there are clearly problems. Similar to what we had last year. Our offense tends to get shut down in the 2nd halves of games.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Deep Lake, right above Northport (Outside of Colville, WA near the border)...

Nice I imagine it’s SUPER cold over there right now !

 

[Screamin12th]

How many franchise players do we have on the roster that we can build around for years? IMO, not many...

Jordyn Brooks
Darrell Taylor
Tre Brown
Diggs
D. Lewis
M. Dickson
Adams (only because he has a new contract)

That's about it right now... I don't really see anyone on offense outside of Lewis that we can build around on that side of the ball...

On the fence with Metcalf... How much money do you think he'd want in a new contract? I don't want to put a lot of money into that position... He drops too many balls and doesn't have a few good catch radius... He also doesn't run great routes... IOW's, he's no D Hopkins... I'd almost rather trade him if we're going to reboot...

Seems like w/out the draft capital, players to build around, we're stuck in needing to reboot instead of reload mode...

This is what I see a lot of from many of you. The best players on a bad team do not mean they are cornerstone players. Many of those players you listed have looked bad against good talent and great against bad talent. SO are they good or just the best we got? I think it's more in the middle but these are not cornerstone type players.

In your List Diggs had his strongest season for us but lets not forget how he played for the first 6 or so games. Huge turn around and he is flying all over the place. He seems quicker and faster and looks the part of a franchise player but none of those other guys on the list have proven anything yet other than they can be average to a little above against inferior opponents and disappear for the most part against top quality opponents.

 

[flyerhawk]

This is what I see a lot of from many of you. The best players on a bad team do not mean they are cornerstone players. Many of those players you listed have looked bad against good talent and great against bad talent. SO are they good or just the best we got? I think it's more in the middle but these are not cornerstone type players.

In your List Diggs had his strongest season for us but lets not forget how he played for the first 6 or so games. Huge turn around and he is flying all over the place. He seems quicker and faster and looks the part of a franchise player but none of those other guys on the list have proven anything yet other than they can be average to a little above against inferior opponents and disappear for the most part against top quality opponents.

AO listed 7 players out of 54 that he thought were good and you think even that is too much? LOL

Some of you are such prisoners of the moment.

 

[Screamin12th]

AO listed 7 players out of 54 that he thought were good and you think even that is too much? LOL

Some of you are such prisoners of the moment.

he did not say good he said "could build a team around" there is a HUGE difference. Do you know what a cornerstone player is? Earl Thomas in his prime, Sherman in his prime, Kam in his prime, Bobby in his prime those are cornerstone players that you can build a team around. Not a 6 sack guy or a DB that played 5 games and had 1 PD. Since when can you build around a punter? He is a keeper yes but not a cornerstone and chances are they could replace him and I don't think they would drop a game. Green and Taylor look ok but they have big holes in their game and they do not get consistent pressure. Neither look like double digit sack guys and thats what this team needs from one of them at least. Maybe in the future but as of right now i have not seen it.

 

[Screamin12th]

actually they said "Franchise Players" that means probowl/all pro talent.

I have said this before and I will say it again. When you are the best player on a bad team you look better than you are. The same goes for good players also. A average to a little below average player looks like a good player on a bad team. The sad truth is this team is not as good as many of you think. Defense is the strongest part of the team and they suck in almost every defensive category. This team needs more up and coming talent, more front line players.

 

[flyerhawk]

he did not say good he said "could build a team around" there is a HUGE difference. Do you know what a cornerstone player is? Earl Thomas in his prime, Sherman in his prime, Kam in his prime, Bobby in his prime those are cornerstone players that you can build a team around. Not a 6 sack guy or a DB that played 5 games and had 1 PD. Since when can you build around a punter? He is a keeper yes but not a cornerstone and chances are they could replace him and I don't think they would drop a game. Green and Taylor look ok but they have big holes in their game and they do not get consistent pressure. Neither look like double digit sack guys and thats what this team needs from one of them at least. Maybe in the future but as of right now i have not seen it.

You just listed 4 Hall of Fame level players. Yes it would be great if we had 4 Hall of Famers. But that is a generational level team.

I think Taylor looks like he could be a Pro Bowl level player. This was effectively his rookie year. 6 sacks as a rookie is promising.

But our DL is never going to look great if we continue to allow receivers to get open on undernearth and intermediate routes in order to protect from the deep ball.

 

[Screamin12th]

You just listed 4 Hall of Fame level players. Yes it would be great if we had 4 Hall of Famers. But that is a generational level team.

I think Taylor looks like he could be a Pro Bowl level player. This was effectively his rookie year. 6 sacks as a rookie is promising.

But our DL is never going to look great if we continue to allow receivers to get open on undernearth and intermediate routes in order to protect from the deep ball.

Thats what a "Franchise" player is, a HoF talent not all of them will make it to the HoF and that's the sad truth. Most teams don't have but a couple of these type of players and the ones he listed are not these type players. ( Franchise players ) Green might become one so could Taylor but it would take some BIG STEPS by both. BIG jumps, one can hope that's for sure. If Brooks figures out how to play zone and attack a screen he looks the part. But thats a big if.

 

[flyerhawk]

Thats what a "Franchise" player is, a HoF talent not all of them will make it to the HoF and that's the sad truth. Most teams don't have but a couple of these type of players and the ones he listed are not these type players. ( Franchise players ) Green might become one so could Taylor but it would take some BIG STEPS by both. BIG jumps, one can hope that's for sure. If Brooks figures out how to play zone and attack a screen he looks the part. But thats a big if.

Well sure. The team needs guys like Brooks and Taylor and Metcalf to elevate to the next level and be all pro level players. I think it is possible certainly. But who the heck knows.

 

[Screamin12th]

Well sure. The team needs guys like Brooks and Taylor and Metcalf to elevate to the next level and be all pro level players. I think it is possible certainly. But who the heck knows.

See you have more faith in them than I do because nothing i have seen from most of them screams "possible Franchise player". Quality starter? maybe not 100% sure yet. Looking good on a bad team is easy to do. When you are the fastest slow car you are still slow if you get my meaning. Sure you show up as the fastest a lot but that doesn't make you a speedster. The best players on a bad team doesn't mean they are great players or even good, they just have to be better than whats around them.

 

[Anointed One]

I have said this before and I will say it again. When you are the best player on a bad team you look better than you are.

You need to stop saying that then... That is a ridiculous statement...

 

[flyerhawk]

See you have more faith in them than I do because nothing i have seen from most of them screams "possible Franchise player". Quality starter? maybe not 100% sure yet. Looking good on a bad team is easy to do. When you are the fastest slow car you are still slow if you get my meaning. Sure you show up as the fastest a lot but that doesn't make you a speedster. The best players on a bad team doesn't mean they are great players or even good, they just have to be better than whats around them.

You have one season to judge Darrell Taylor and one and a half seasons to judge Jordyn Brooks.

I do think we need a new defensive system which we may not get.