Game Thread: Chicago Bears @ Seattle Seahawks

[Anointed One]

His play the last year half has been bad. He's always relied on his legs to make plays ( it's what made him special) and his legs are gone, his speed is gone, his quickness is gone and he has not honed his skills within the pocket which is where he's going to have to play from going forward for the most part. He'll be 34 next season and for a mobile QB 34 is like 39 for QBs that haven't relied on breaking the pocket and played from the pocket and honed that skill over their career IMO.

He hasn't looked like his former self in his last 22-23 games... It's not like we have just a handful of examples... Like you said, it's been a year and half... Teams have also figured out his spin move out of the pocket to create more time and separation while giving him the option to run or throw down field... That was his trademark and quite frankly, that trademark is not there anymore... Teams have taken it away from him... He's not a pocket passer due to his height, which is why he makes more downfield throws imo while in the pocket... It's easier to see rather than the 5-10 yard pass options...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

He hasn't looked like his former self in his last 22-23 games... It's not like we have just a handful of examples... Like you said, it's been a year and half... Teams have also figured out his spin move out of the pocket to create more time and separation while giving him the option to run or throw down field... That was his trademark and quite frankly, that trademark is not there anymore... Teams have taken it away from him... He's not a pocket passer due to his height, which is why he makes more downfield throws imo while in the pocket... It's easier to see rather than the 5-10 yard pass options...

In the 2 minute drill we have seen RW willing throw those 5-10 yard passes and take what the defense gives. Why he doesn't do that normally is the question ( I do think his height plays into it). Some say it's the play calling, I feel it's RW.
If the defense is giving players like Metcalf and Lockett big cushions ( as a example) then tell the WRs to expect a pass early to take advantage. QBs can audible out of any play, Aaron Rodgers was known to do that more often then not in the past.
I always felt the changing of OC was in large part to help RW develop as a pocket passer, but getting RW to stand in the pocket and go through progressions just went counter to RW instincts to abandon the pocket instead. Certainly a poor OL contributed to that, but it was also RW not knowing how to move in the pocket. So many times his footwork and movement help defeat the blocks his OL were making.
The hope is RW has to realize he needs to work on being a better pocket passer. Surely RW knows his days of spinning away from tacklers or out running them are in the past and starts focusing on how he can help himself while remaining in the pocket.

 

[flyerhawk]

In the 2 minute drill we have seen RW willing throw those 5-10 yard passes and take what the defense gives. Why he doesn't do that normally is the question ( I do think his height plays into it). Some say it's the play calling, I feel it's RW.
If the defense is giving players like Metcalf and Lockett big cushions ( as a example) then tell the WRs to expect a pass early to take advantage. QBs can audible out of any play, Aaron Rodgers was known to do that more often then not in the past.
I always felt the changing of OC was in large part to help RW develop as a pocket passer, but getting RW to stand in the pocket and go through progressions just went counter to RW instincts to abandon the pocket instead. Certainly a poor OL contributed to that, but it was also RW not knowing how to move in the pocket. So many times his footwork and movement help defeat the blocks his OL were making.
The hope is RW has to realize he needs to work on being a better pocket passer. Surely RW knows his days of spinning away from tacklers or out running them are in the past and starts focusing on how he can help himself while remaining in the pocket.

To be clear, you can only go through progressions when you have time to do so. The pass blocking has improved this year but is still wildly erratic.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

To be clear, you can only go through progressions when you have time to do so. The pass blocking has improved this year but is still wildly erratic.

Yes you need the time and footwork can help with that, knowing where your check down is can help. Lots of ways to help your blockers besides exiting the pocket at the first sign of a pass rush. When he was 25 exiting the pocket quickly wasn't so bad, now it just leads to sacks deeper into the backfield.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes you need the time and footwork can help with that, knowing where your check down is can help. Lots of ways to help your blockers besides exiting the pocket at the first sign of a pass rush. When he was 25 exiting the pocket quickly wasn't so bad, now it just leads to sacks deeper into the backfield.

I think you are really overstating the case.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think you are really overstating the case.

I actually hope I am.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

 

[MrS]

writing on the wall?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I didn't want to believe the rumors last year about RW wanting a trade, but I believe them now. The thing is there is no point in trading RW unless a full rebuild is the plan IMO. The Seahawks can't contend without a quality QB and next years draft is considered very poor at the QB position and trying to get by with a Nick Foles type and contend is delusional. If RW gets traded, strip down the team, trade players for picks, embrace loses for 2022 and aim for 2023 draft to replace RW while building both OL and DL and the defense over all. Repeat what was done in 2010 collect draft picks and cap space and start from scratch. If the plan is to contend in 2022 RW would need to stay and the RW is still signed for two more seasons.

 

[flyerhawk]

If the Seahawks trade Russell Wilson and keep Pete Carroll, I'll skip next season.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

If the Seahawks trade Russell Wilson and keep Pete Carroll, I'll skip next season.

i’m for a full rebuild and who better then Pete who has done it correctly once. However if Pete feels he can trade RW and still contend that’s delusional and squandering the major chip for a rebuild. This news seems to be coming from RW and while some feel a new staff would mend things I doubt that. Don’t think RW wants to endure a rebuild at his age and wants a new team with a better roster. However he seems to be trying to make the idea of getting traded the Seahawks idea in order to appear the good guy and not the villain. Doubt he can force a trade unless he pulls a Watson and simple goes public with a trade demand.

 

[flyerhawk]

i’m for a full rebuild and who better then Pete who has done it correctly once. However if Pete feels he can trade RW and still contend that’s delusional and squandering the major chip for a rebuild. This news seems to be coming from RW and while some feel a new staff would mend things I doubt that. Don’t think RW wants to endure a rebuild at his age and wants a new team with a better roster. However he seems to be trying to make the idea of getting traded the Seahawks idea in order to appear the good guy and not the villain. Doubt he can force a trade unless he pulls a Watson and simple goes public with a trade demand.

Pete Carrol did it once because he knew the college kids that were turning pro. He's shown no desire to change his philosophy at all.

Have 71 year old coach overseeing a rebuild seems like a bad idea.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Pete Carrol did it once because he knew the college kids that were turning pro. He's shown no desire to change his philosophy at all.

Have 71 year old coach overseeing a rebuild seems like a bad idea.

Yes knowing the college kids was a big advantage, still other college coaches coming from the college ranks haven't been able to duplicate what Pete has. There is nothing wrong with Pete's philosophy, it's been proven as a winning formula. The Seahawks have actually gotten away from it TBH and have become more pass heavy and IMO the limitations of the offense have more to do with RW then Pete. Bad footwork, bailing early, not knowing who to check down to, not going through progressions. I believe each of the OC were brought in to try to improve RW and turn him into a pocket passer but it's just hard to teach a old dog new tricks.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes knowing the college kids was a big advantage, still other college coaches coming from the college ranks haven't been able to duplicate what Pete has. There is nothing wrong with Pete's philosophy, it's been proven as a winning formula. The Seahawks have actually gotten away from it TBH and have become more pass heavy and IMO the limitations of the offense have more to do with RW then Pete. Bad footwork, bailing early, not knowing who to check down to, not going through progressions. I believe each of the OC were brought in to try to improve RW and turn him into a pocket passer but it's just hard to teach a old dog new tricks.

So this team was successful despite Russell Wilson not because of him?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

So this team was successful despite Russell Wilson not because of him?

As long as RW could excel outside the pocket they succeeded as soon as he didn't excel outside the pocket the offense struggled because RW has not mastered being a pocket passer....footwork to aid his blockers, going through progressions, staying in the pocket to find his secondary receiver even if it means taking a hit, knowing his check downs, changing plays at the line to take advantage of what the defense gives him and so on. That's how I see it.

 

[flyerhawk]

As long as RW could excel outside the pocket they succeeded as soon as he didn't excel outside the pocket the offense struggled because RW has not mastered being a pocket passer....footwork to aid his blockers, going through progressions, staying in the pocket to find his secondary receiver even if it means taking a hit, knowing his check downs, changing plays at the line to take advantage of what the defense gives him and so on. That's how I see it.

I am baffled that any Hawks fan would say this. Russ has a career 101.5 passer rating over a 10 year career.

Who are the QBs in the NFL that you think are better at these things?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I am baffled that any Hawks fan would say this. Russ has a career 101.5 passer rating over a 10 year career.

Who are the QBs in the NFL that you think are better at these things?

Russ has had a great career, best QB the Seahawks ever had, but he's been a mobile QB who depended on his legs for success and he's reach the time that he can't do the same things he once did and needs to become a pocket passer. Maybe he can make the transformation, but I have my doubts. Personally I could only endorse trading him if the plan was to do a full rebuild. Trading him with the idea the Seahawks could stay relevant and playoff team with who ever at QB is sheer folly.

 

[MrS]

So this team was successful despite Russell Wilson not because of him?

When he was rushing for 750 yards a year it was because of him. Since they "let russ cook", it hasn't worked nearly as well. There have been flashes but against good defenses they get shut down.

 

[Screamin12th]

Wilson was a top 5 POCKET passer with stats that more than proved it over his career. Yes he was great at throwing outside the pocket but his numbers inside it were also great. ESPN and NFL Network went over just this thing last year and the Numbers proved that he was actually a better pocket passer than he was on the run. I will give Wilson a pass on this season. It's the first time he has had a down season since becoming the Seahawks Starting QB and "Should" have missed 6 games but came back to soon. A mallet finger is not a broken bone yet Wilson him self and Pete have stated "Broken". So I think not only did he get the mallet finger but also broke the tip of his finger and that more than explains his off target throws. If he in fact had the torn tendon which he did we all saw it AND a broken finger then most people would have been out closer to 8 weeks not the 3 he missed.

I am just a little shocked that some of you all tend to blow off what has been disproven in his first 9 years before 2021. Wilson HAD been running around 4-6 times per game and was on that same pace this season ( he was awesome till the finger went pop ) till he Broke his finger and now is averaging less than 2 rushing attempts per game for 6+ weeks only surpassing that total and being right at his average in the Packers game, the very first game back from injury. The Issue Wilson is having is finger related and the fact this team can't run screens at all. We have to be the worst screen team EVER!

Then add in the fact that Wilson has ALWAYS gone deep it seems on 3rd and what ever. 3rd and 3 he goes deep, 3rd and 1 He goes deep. This makes zero sense and this is what the coaches have called for him. They need a legit and talented RB that can stay on the field and Maybe these 3rd and 3 fades turn into a hand off to a STUD not a injury prone dude. Wilson was having a great season and the defense wasn't to start the season and the injury happened. It's not like his decline just came out of no where.

 

[Screamin12th]

Since 2012 Wilson has average between 6-7 games a season where his Rating was below 100. This year he has 5 in 11 and 1/2 games. The real kicker is after the injury he has not passed 65% completion but for one game. In 7 games back after injury minus the San Fran game he has had completion percentages of 50% GB, 53.9% ARI, 64.5% WSH, 60.7% HOU, 54.8% LA, 59.3% CHI. I don't know about you guys but a sub 65% passer Wilson is not and the drop off from a average of 70% before the Injury shows and points right where the problem is. Wilson is playing hurt, he is struggling like never before and I don't care how great of a QB you are sooner or later you will have a down year. We have seen this from the best of the best in the NFL forever it just happens. Wilson's was caused by injury just like many other great QB's who had down years.

Is Wilson the problem to our down season? very much so he is a big chunk of it but are you guys going to burn him at the stake like he is some washed up has been? Rogers has had a couple bad years, Brady has had almost half a dozen and we turn on Wilson after his first one? I give Wilson a pass but maybe that's because I knew with out a doubt he was rushing his return and I expected just this exact outcome. He came back to early and it has slowed his recovery and has hurt the team. I predicted this when he got hurt and i see it as the MAIN problem. The finger was BROKEN and had a ruptured tendon, he should have been out 8 weeks minimum. But he came back and his finger will not ever fully heal 100% this season because of it.

Wilson is worth a ton of draft capital, 3 first at the very least if a Strong safety is worth 2 first a 3rd and a starting Safety. Thing is if we bail on Wilson we are in full rebuild no if ands or buts right? This team has talent on the roster it's just not deep and we are very thin at some very Key positions. We don't have a #3 WR AT ALL, Our TE are average at best, Brown ( sorry Brown you have been great for us ) has been bad this year. RB has been depleted and we have had guys like Collins, Dallas and Homer as the main back many times this season, that's a joke for starting RB quality. We have had mediocre results from our DT and DE's, our CB have been bad, so much so that many of you wanted to crown Tre Brown as our best CB after a couple games when he was "average" at best which I guess would be great on THIS team lol.

You want picks then Trade Jamal Adams and Bobby Wagner for ammo in the 2022 draft and by the time we hit the 2023 draft we will be in a good place as far as having our #1's back. Jones has looked like a promising young talent and so does Brown at CB, Brooks is a tackling machine that just needs to be coached up in coverage but he has the talent to be one of the better LB in the league. This team needs RB, Oline, Dline help in the worst way and this would go a long ways to fixing whats broke with a 100% healthy Wilson. Seattle will have the 5th most Cap room this offseason, everyone has to resign players so i dont want to hear yeah but we got to resign blah blah. Thats EVERY YEAR this is nothing new. Seattle has the 5th most open cap space and if they traded Wags and Adams they would be close to #1. Go out and get some starter quality players in need position. Not PRO BOWLERS but the next tier down. Then by 2023 it's back to normal.

I doubt anyone will read this wall of text lmao