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Bird V Lebron @ age 30

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I think that he's already surpassed Bird, but if they are tied right now, LeBron will eventually pass him due because he is more durable than Bird was.

Depend how you see it. If he makes the finals again and loses he could easily be known as the biggest flop in finals history.
 

ChrisGar15

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Depend how you see it. If he makes the finals again and loses he could easily be known as the biggest flop in finals history.

I think Elgin Baylor lost like 9 times in the finals -- never won one. Jerry West was something like 1-8 in the Finals.

(FYI -- I like both of those guys a lot ... I think it is better to get to the Finals and lose than to never make the finals.)
 

redseat

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Just found the numbers. Found them very interesting is all.

Keep the thread going, I like a good conversation
 

SJ76

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Craig Ehlo was a good 3 point shooter. Dam good
 

SJ76

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Ray Allen could shoot 3s too. Thank God for that otherwise, Lebron has 1 less title in Miami.
 

trojanfan12

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LeBron is a very hateable guy, but he was hands down the best player in the league for about a decade. I think that he's already surpassed Bird, but if they are tied right now, LeBron will eventually pass him due because he is more durable than Bird was.

Even then, there's no guarantee. Lebron has logged a ton of minutes. He has actually played more minutes than Kobe did at the same point in his career and we all know how many minutes Kobe logged, so that really says something about the wear and tear on Lebron.

The reason that's important, obviously, is because many are now saying that the minutes Kobe logged at least exacerbated the injuries he had the past 3 years if not directly caused them. What happens if those minutes finally catch up to Lebron?

There's also the very real possibility that Lebron never wins another title. Or if he does, it comes like Gary Payton's with the Celtics where the team was going to win whether he was on the roster or not.

That's the issue with these comparisons. It's like they want to assume what Lebron is going to do and want to credit him before he's done it.
 
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I think Elgin Baylor lost like 9 times in the finals -- never won one. Jerry West was something like 1-8 in the Finals.

(FYI -- I like both of those guys a lot ... I think it is better to get to the Finals and lose than to never make the finals.)

Elgin and Jerry were unfortunate that they were active during the time where the Celtics won 11 championships in 13 years.

With Lebron, he is 2 out of 5 in Finals where he pretty much hand crafted the teams. At Miami, as the (then) best player of the league he went to a team with a super star already on it and took another all star with him. On paper Miami should have been dominating year after year.
 
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Ray Allen could shoot 3s too. Thank God for that otherwise, Lebron has 1 less title in Miami.

Heck, Kawhi Leonard makes one free throw and Lebron has one less too!
 

Rockinkuwait

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Finals record? Oh it's the "his teammates are the problem"

Like when he quit on the HEAT vs the Spurs.

-"I got cramps"


So when you are hurt that is quitting now?

Didn't Lebron lead his team in minutes in that Finals (And points, rebounds, assists, FG%, 3PT %, trips to the line, steals...) :doh:

In that game WITH THE CRAMP over the last half of the fourth quarter he outscored Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen COMBINED. That's him quitting? What do we call needing help from two all stars and a HOFer and them putting up a combined 2 points over the final 9 minutes of the game? Oh yeah, you call that "teammates aren't an issue".


The reason people bring up teammates, especially in the finals, is in that finals, Wade/Bosh COMBINED for 29 points, 9 boards and 3.5 assists in that finals. Really, struggling for 15 a game with your max contract all-stars on the biggest stage is ok But Lebron basically equaling those two COMBINED... going for 28-8-4 on 57% shooting and 90% at the line is what you find an issue with?





Jeez if you hate Lebron for quitting when he was hurt, what about a healthy Jordan abandoning his team in their prime years. He must be your most hated player of all time if that's your logic right? Or does that change depending on the jersey color of the player?
 

SJ76

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So when you are hurt that is quitting now?

Didn't Lebron lead his team in minutes in that Finals (And points, rebounds, assists, FG%, 3PT %, trips to the line, steals...) :doh:

In that game WITH THE CRAMP over the last half of the fourth quarter he outscored Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen COMBINED. That's him quitting? What do we call needing help from two all stars and a HOFer and them putting up a combined 2 points over the final 9 minutes of the game? Oh yeah, you call that "teammates aren't an issue".


The reason people bring up teammates, especially in the finals, is in that finals, Wade/Bosh COMBINED for 29 points, 9 boards and 3.5 assists in that finals. Really, struggling for 15 a game with your max contract all-stars on the biggest stage is ok But Lebron basically equaling those two COMBINED... going for 28-8-4 on 57% shooting and 90% at the line is what you find an issue with?





Jeez if you hate Lebron for quitting when he was hurt, what about a healthy Jordan abandoning his team in their prime years. He must be your most hated player of all time if that's your logic right? Or does that change depending on the jersey color of the player?

:violin:

Yes he quit. Yes he led his team in minutes. So do most great players on great teams. The Heat got beat down. Bron got cramps.

Jordan had the flu and got an IV at halftime, he didn't need to come out to hit a game winner in game 6 on Byron Russell. You think he was crampin?

That was weak and so are any excuses in a finals game. You either go or you don't go and sit on the bench. Bron is a bitch. The guy is 260 and settled on jumpers when he could go to the rack and draw a foul.

But "he's the most physical player in a pussified league". :pound:
 

Rockinkuwait

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:violin:

Yes he quit. Yes he led his team in minutes. So do most great players on great teams. The Heat got beat down. Bron got cramps.

Jordan had the flu and got an IV at halftime, he didn't need to come out to hit a game winner in game 6 on Byron Russell. You think he was crampin?

That was weak and so are any excuses in a finals game. You either go or you don't go and sit on the bench. Bron is a bitch. The guy is 260 and settled on jumpers when he could go to the rack and draw a foul.

But "he's the most physical player in a pussified league". :pound:

lol... Quitting isn't being under contract and saying you don't want to play anymore, it's having cramps and still outscoring 3 hall of fame teammates combined points... Got it lol. You did watch that game right? He was stumbling around the court and STILL OUTSCORED 3 HALL OF FAMERS ON HIS TEAM. But yeah, lets point the finger at that guy...

He settled on jumpers (and led all scorers in points in the paint, but hey, who needs facts) because they were playing off of him (and got to the line in that series more than ANYONE to boot), and shot 57% from the field. See how far you have to dig to bash him? :crazy:
 

SJ76

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lol... Quitting isn't being under contract and saying you don't want to play anymore, it's having cramps and still outscoring 3 hall of fame teammates combined points... Got it lol. You did watch that game right? He was stumbling around the court and STILL OUTSCORED 3 HALL OF FAMERS ON HIS TEAM. But yeah, lets point the finger at that guy...

He settled on jumpers (and led all scorers in points in the paint, but hey, who needs facts) because they were playing off of him (and got to the line in that series more than ANYONE to boot), and shot 57% from the field. See how far you have to dig to bash him? :crazy:

Under contract? That was his last few games as a member of the Heat and he jumped ship.. Again. the Heat got pummeled the last 2 games of that series. Bron checked out. Sure he may have had some stats, but that was all she wrote. No finals team with a player like that should get beat down like that. San Antonio was good but not that good. That Heat team fell apart. Question is why? Cuz Bron was crying and wanted to leave.

He did the same dam thing when he quit as a Cav against Boston in the playoffs and walked off the floor pouting.

Both instances he was on his way out. And he left both teams. That's quitting.

He's a little bitch. Cramps??!!! In the finals?? Please man that is so weak
 

Rockinkuwait

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Under contract? That was his last few games as a member of the Heat and he jumped ship.. Again. the Heat got pummeled the last 2 games of that series. Bron checked out.

I agree SA wasn't that good, but jeez, how much worse could Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, Cole, Birdman have played? Seriously, Bron picks up his game from the ECF, those guys just disappear, and you decide Lebron is the guy to bash on the finals that year?

LOl, ok I get it, you didn't watch those games, because if you did, when the Spurs pulled away in those, you'd have seen Bosh and Wade just disappear.

Seriously, Bron was the only player on that Heat team that didn't check out. Wade just flat out DIED those last two games, Bosh struggled to score and his D was a joke. Bron still 30-10 and not coming out. That 29 a game Bosh/Wade averaged in that series.. 23 a game in those last two games. Seriously, those two couldn't put up a dozen each. Garbage points in the end of those games is the ONLY reason they were able to nearly score a dozen apiece.


I am trying to figure this out. Weak is 3 HOF'ers not able to combine the scoring output of a guy who barely was on the floor in that time cramped up.

I am not saying he's perfect or anywhere close.. I am saying that calling out him of all people for that playoff series as the cause of them not winning is idiotic. You seem like the guy so intent on proving this, that you will gloss over averything and anything else that's based in reality to try and make the point Lebron chose to have cramps instead because he is Lebron. lol It's like walking past the nuclear explosion to show the dangers of a firecracker.
 

SJ76

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I agree SA wasn't that good, but jeez, how much worse could Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, Cole, Birdman have played? Seriously, Bron picks up his game from the ECF, those guys just disappear, and you decide Lebron is the guy to bash on the finals that year?

LOl, ok I get it, you didn't watch those games, because if you did, when the Spurs pulled away in those, you'd have seen Bosh and Wade just disappear.

Seriously, Bron was the only player on that Heat team that didn't check out. Wade just flat out DIED those last two games, Bosh struggled to score and his D was a joke. Bron still 30-10 and not coming out. That 29 a game Bosh/Wade averaged in that series.. 23 a game in those last two games. Seriously, those two couldn't put up a dozen each. Garbage points in the end of those games is the ONLY reason they were able to nearly score a dozen apiece.


I am trying to figure this out. Weak is 3 HOF'ers not able to combine the scoring output of a guy who barely was on the floor in that time cramped up.

I am not saying he's perfect or anywhere close.. I am saying that calling out him of all people for that playoff series as the cause of them not winning is idiotic. You seem like the guy so intent on proving this, that you will gloss over averything and anything else that's based in reality to try and make the point Lebron chose to have cramps instead because he is Lebron. lol It's like walking past the nuclear explosion to show the dangers of a firecracker.



It was the rest of the teams fault.
Lebron was hurt
Lebron had cramps because he played a lot of minutes in finals
:violin:
I get it.


What about how he went out in Boston? You seem to be dismissing the fact of the way he goes out in his last series and then leaves. What about things you can't see like chemistry? Teams can catch wind of something this.. It's not hard to see there was a disconnect in those games. You don't think his teammates see a pattern and maybe wondered or even knew the guy was leaving? That's a bit of distraction. Yeah I watched the Heat/Spurs series, but I turned it off when the Heat were down 20 in the 3rd/4th Q.


Bosh and Wade were actually good in the first 3 games of that series. Bosh had 18/9 in game 1, 18 points in game 2, and 9 points in game 3 on 4/4 from the field. Wade had 19 in game 1, 14/7/4 on 5/9 from the field in game 2, and 22 points in game 3. Both struggled in game 4 and 5. It does happen and give a little credit to San Antonio's defense.
 

UK Cowboy

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I think it's a two way street. I heard guys on M@M this morning butthutt because older players don't give Steph credit for being a great player, but how is that any different than them downgrading the game of a guy like, say, Wilt? It's always, "there were no great centers then, like this era with Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, etc".....except none of those guys play today either. Put Wilt in today's game, with tidays rules, no forearm in the back, etc, and tell me he wouldn't be just as great. Understand that Anthony Davis just put up a 50/20 lol
 

Shanemansj13

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Ray Allen could shoot 3s too. Thank God for that otherwise, Lebron has 1 less title in Miami.

Heck, Kawhi Leonard makes one free throw and Lebron has one less too!

Yeah and if he wouldn't have averaged 25 11 7 and 2 stls they would have never been in the Finals. You guys make no sense, kinda funny :laugh3:
 

Shanemansj13

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It was the rest of the teams fault.
Lebron was hurt
Lebron had cramps because he played a lot of minutes in finals
:violin:
I get it.


What about how he went out in Boston? You seem to be dismissing the fact of the way he goes out in his last series and then leaves. What about things you can't see like chemistry? Teams can catch wind of something this.. It's not hard to see there was a disconnect in those games. You don't think his teammates see a pattern and maybe wondered or even knew the guy was leaving? That's a bit of distraction. Yeah I watched the Heat/Spurs series, but I turned it off when the Heat were down 20 in the 3rd/4th Q.


Bosh and Wade were actually good in the first 3 games of that series. Bosh had 18/9 in game 1, 18 points in game 2, and 9 points in game 3 on 4/4 from the field. Wade had 19 in game 1, 14/7/4 on 5/9 from the field in game 2, and 22 points in game 3. Both struggled in game 4 and 5. It does happen and give a little credit to San Antonio's defense.

You either just hate Lebron that much that you can't deal with the facts or you are really just that dumb.

c366ecb1df0098ca3249d3bd69f87c06451bcfc7b03953a6c322e063402ecb83.jpg
 

Shanemansj13

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Lebron's 2014 stats when they lost 4-1, but he gave up? It's ok guys just admit you are trolls

FG% .571 3P% .519 FT% .793 MP 37.8 PPG 28.2 RPG 7.8 APG 4.0 SPG 2.0 BPG 0.4
 

redseat

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i'm not trying to be a troll when I started this thread, I just really found those stats interesting. Lebron is a BEAST plain and simple
 
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