Bird V Lebron @ age 30

[Shaqdaddy11]

LOL. Physically weaker? No. The rules have changed. Players are more athletic than ever before. There was nobody like LeBron in the 90s.

If the rules have changed what makes you think Lebron stands a chance in the 90s?

 

[tlance]

If the rules have changed what makes you think Lebron stands a chance in the 90s?

Aside from blind hate, what makes you think he doesn't? He is the most impressive physical specimen out there. No player in the history of the game had his combination of size, speed, strength and skills. It is foolish to think he would not stand up to physical play. More than likely, it would help him.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Aside from blind hate, what makes you think he doesn't? He is the most impressive physical specimen out there. No player in the history of the game had his combination of size, speed, strength and skills. It is foolish to think he would not stand up to physical play. More than likely, it would help him.

Go back to the guys I mentioned in post #99. They would have torn Lebron a new one.

It almost sounds like you're in love with the guy. "Most impressive physical specimen"?

 

[tlance]

No, but I am objective.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

No, but I am objective.

You're either young, ignorant, or delusional. Or all three. Did you even see any basketball in the 90s?

 

[tlance]

Also, none of the players you mentioned would ever guard LeBron. There are run protectors in today's NBA too, and they are pretty damn good. Everyone on your list, aside from Rodman gets set apart because of their offensive skills.

 

[tlance]

You're either young, ignorant, or delusional. Or all three. Did you even see any basketball in the 90s?

Actually if you want to compare resumes we can. I am quite sure I know a hell of a lot more about basketball than you.

I am 37 and started watching in the mid 80s. I Watched just about every game Jordan played on WGN through his championship runs. I know exactly what the 90s were like.

You and Oscar are the delusional ones.

 

[ChrisGar15]

Robertson got traded because Cousy was jealous of all the attention he was getting. Robertson was perfectly happy in Cincinnati and at no point did he demand a trade.

I grew up in Ohio in the 60s. I remember that time well.

Royals tried to trade Oscar to Washington -- he wouldn't go. Then he publicly announced, "I won't be playing for the Royals next year."

If that isn't a trade demand, I don't know what is. If a player would say that today (like Dwight) -- that would be a trade demand.

He was pissed at Cousy, Cincy in general (fans, press) ... and a lot of other stuff.

Simmons wrote a nice piece about him in his book. Oscar is a complex guy.

But I don't think almost anyone (players, fans -- younger than 50) -- really have any idea what guys like Oscar & Russell had to go through in 50s and most of the 60s. I'm not blaming him at all.

 

[trojanfan12]

When he resigned in Cleveland, their roster was inferior to Miami's. Cleveland would have likely been somewhere between 7-10 in the East without LeBron last year.

And how has Miami performed since Lebron left?

As for Kobe, it is funny that he gets credit for staying in LA while LeBron gets crucified for leaving. Kobe played alongside the most dominant big man in the game his first few years in the game. After Shaq left, he asked to be traded multiple times, the Lakers just never complied, and were able to smoot things out. Then once they stole Gasol from the Grizzlies, they had another championship core.

Lots of derp in here. Kobe didn't demand a trade because he wanted to leave, he demanded a trade to light a fire under the asses of the Lakers FO and it wasn't multiple times. Additonally, considering the Grizzlies got the rights to Marc Gasol, I'd say that trade worked out just fine for them.

So while it is true that Kobe never left and LeBron did, I also seriously doubt that he would have played his entire career in a city like Cleveland or Charlotte/New Orleans had he began his career there. He started out in a pretty good spot.

Kobe also never said "I have a dream and it's a big one. I want to bring a championship to Cleveland and I won't leave until I get one." Kobe also never would have tried to give Cleveland a stupid nickname like "The Land."

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL. Physically weaker? No.

Actually, that seems to be true. Your statement that James Worthy would be an ideal 4 in today's game is based on that premise.

How many players in today's game are as physically strong as Wilt, Robert Parrish, Shaq, Maurice Lucas, Rick Mahorn, etc., etc.?

 

[trojanfan12]

Aside from blind hate, what makes you think he doesn't? He is the most impressive physical specimen out there. No player in the history of the game had his combination of size, speed, strength and skills. It is foolish to think he would not stand up to physical play. More than likely, it would help him.

Really, it's hard to say how he would fare in the 90's. He has grown up and learned the game in a different way than how is was played then. He has learned the game in an era when you get called for a foul if you look at a guy too hard. So, if you could hot tub time machine today's Lebron back to the 90's, he probably doesn't fare as well because he wouldn't be used to the contact.

However, if he grew up in that era and learned to play that way, then I think he may not be quite as good as he is now (the level of contact would still limit him some) but he'd likely be darn close.

 

[tlance]

Actually, that seems to be true. Your statement that James Worthy would be an ideal 4 in today's game is based on that premise.

How many players in today's game are as physically strong as Wilt, Robert Parrish, Shaq, Maurice Lucas, Rick Mahorn, etc., etc.?

DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, Quincy Acy, Reggie Evans just to name a few. There are plenty, they just don't do much offensively.

 

[trojanfan12]

DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, Quincy Acy, Reggie Evans just to name a few. There are plenty, they just don't do much offensively.

Actually, from a physical strength perspective, I'd only put DeAndre in that category. I just realized too that I didn't include Karl Malone or Rodman.

 

[tlance]

And how has Miami performed since Lebron left?



Lots of derp in here. Kobe didn't demand a trade because he wanted to leave, he demanded a trade to light a fire under the asses of the Lakers FO and it wasn't multiple times. Additonally, considering the Grizzlies got the rights to Marc Gasol, I'd say that trade worked out just fine for them.



Kobe also never said "I have a dream and it's a big one. I want to bring a championship to Cleveland and I won't leave until I get one." Kobe also never would have tried to give Cleveland a stupid nickname like "The Land."

Speculation on Kobe's reasoning. LeBron left the wrong way, but you can't tell me their situations were at all similar. Criticize LeBron's public relations, but the fact that he left and others did not should not be held against him.

 

[ChrisGar15]

Lots of derp in here. Kobe didn't demand a trade because he wanted to leave, he demanded a trade to light a fire under the asses of the Lakers FO and it wasn't multiple times. Additonally, considering the Grizzlies got the rights to Marc Gasol, I'd say that trade worked out just fine for them.

From a 2007 interview:

He leaves little doubt. He says he wants to be traded both because he has been lied to and because he isn't confident in their ability to surround him with appropriate talent.)

At the end of the show, Stephen A. Smith asks: "Is there ANYTHING the Los Angeles Lakers can do to get you to remain with the organization?"

And Bryant responds: "No, bro."​

 

[tlance]

From a 2007 interview:

He leaves little doubt. He says he wants to be traded both because he has been lied to and because he isn't confident in their ability to surround him with appropriate talent.)

At the end of the show, Stephen A. Smith asks: "Is there ANYTHING the Los Angeles Lakers can do to get you to remain with the organization?"

And Bryant responds: "No, bro."​

Thank you sir!

And Dennis Rodman and Robert Parish physically stronger than Quincy Acy?

Cmon man. Not even in the ball park.

 

[ChrisGar15]

I also think Lebron would be more dominant (not less) if the league allowed more physical play today.

His body is built like a tight end. (even when he came into the league at 18/19) He could withstand more banging than Durant, Curry, Thompson, Lillard, Rose, Irving ... (guys like Westbook & Green would be fine even with more physical play)

 

[trojanfan12]

Speculation on Kobe's reasoning. LeBron left the wrong way, but you can't tell me their situations were at all similar. Criticize LeBron's public relations, but the fact that he left and others did not should not be held against him.

Actually, it's not speculation at all, both Kobe and the Lakers said as much. Don't get me wrong, if management hadn't done something, Kobe would have either forced a trade or left via FA, but his reason for demanding the trade was to get the FO to get busy.

Also, I never claimed their situations were similar. However, Lebron should have either stood by what he said, or he shouldn't have said it. You act like Kobe demanding a trade is somehow as bad or worse than Lebron leaving. The difference is, Kobe actually gave the Lakers a chance to do something. Lebron just left.

And before you claim that Lebron gave Cleveland every chance before he hit FA, the Cavs did try to improve the roster every year and all of the moves were approved of and even suggested by Lebron. But instead of sticking around to try and fix the situation he helped create, he just bailed.

 

[trojanfan12]

From a 2007 interview:

He leaves little doubt. He says he wants to be traded both because he has been lied to and because he isn't confident in their ability to surround him with appropriate talent.)

At the end of the show, Stephen A. Smith asks: "Is there ANYTHING the Los Angeles Lakers can do to get you to remain with the organization?"

And Bryant responds: "No, bro."​

And yet, he's retiring a Laker. Go figure. I guess he wanted the FO to do something, just like he and the Lakers said.

 

[trojanfan12]

I also think Lebron would be more dominant (not less) if the league allowed more physical play today.

His body is built like a tight end. (even when he came into the league at 18/19) He could withstand more banging than Durant, Curry, Thompson, Lillard, Rose, Irving ... (guys like Westbook & Green would be fine even with more physical play)

It doesn't matter how he's built. Physical play is physical play and it limits what a player can do. All his build means is that his body would have been able to handle it better than a lot of the smaller guys, not that it would make him better. Although, I will say that it likely would have made him better on the defensive end.

That's why most think MJ would score a lot more under today's rules than he did back then. If he could have driven to the hoop like he did back then without having to deal with the "Jordan Rules" he would have been virtually unstoppable.