Tired of these LeBron-sexuals

[trojanfan12]

Well not necessarily if we compare it by # of games it take Lebron to get 30,000 & 6,000

It's okay to admit Lebron is 2nd tier.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Bird played in a wide open era of gaudy offensive stats.
Nobody played any defense at all. First one to 150 points wins.

Every single team in the entire NBA scored 100+ a game routinely when Bird was age 30
The Knicks had the worst offense in the entire league with 103.8 ppg.....that was plodding dead last.

Raw stats are a waste of time when comparing eras.
The PERs are nearly identical which is the stat that removes era bias from offensive numbers.

Bird set his absolute career high PER that year.
Lebron had his lowest PER since his rookie year.

Lebron was starting over with a rookie head coach, with unfamiliar teammates, for a team that was the #1 overall pick the year prior.

Bird was in his 8th year with the same system, same coach, playing for a team that had the best record in the NBA the year beforehand.

.............

And I am certainly not some Lebron lover.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Bird played in a wide open era of gaudy offensive stats.
Nobody played any defense at all. First one to 150 points wins
Every single team in the entire NBA scored 100+ a game routinely when Bird was age 30
The Knicks had the worst offense in the entire league with 103.8 ppg.....that was plodding dead last.

Raw stats are a waste of time when comparing eras.
The PERs are nearly identical which is the stat that removes era bias from offensive numbers.

Bird set his absolute career high PER that year.
Lebron had his lowest PER since his rookie year.

Lebron was starting over with a rookie head coach, with unfamiliar teammates, for a team that was the #1 overall pick the year prior.

Bird was in his 8th year with the same system, same coach, playing for a team that had the best record in the NBA the year beforehand.

.............

And I am certainly not some Lebron lover.

Yes. Bird did not jump from team to team chasing rings. He earned his on one team...

 

[Battlelyon]

Larry Bird, "Defense? The hell is that?"

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Larry Bird, "Defense? The hell is that?"

Bird is 30th in defensive win shares. You know, 9 spots better than James...

 

[trojanfan12]

Bird played in a wide open era of gaudy offensive stats.
Nobody played any defense at all. First one to 150 points wins.

So, I'm guessing you didn't watch basketball in that era. The difference is the offenses that were run, not the defense that was played. Offenses in that era didn't have the iso's, etc. where one guy holds the ball for 15 seconds before starting any kind of offense. There was an actual flow to the game. Plus, defense was all man to man. There was no zone like there is now.

 

[gordontrue]

Yes. Bird did not jump from team to team chasing rings. He earned his on one team...

Goal post keeps moving in this thread

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Lebron is a stat-sheet stuffer and seems to care for nothing else.

A guy with his talents should have at least 6 rings by now, especially with the players around him.

 

[Battlelyon]

Bird is 30th in defensive win shares. You know, 9 spots better than James...

"As long as Bird is around I will only be the second-worst defensive player in basketball." ~ Charles Barkley

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

"As long as Bird is around I will only be the second-worst defensive player in basketball." ~ Charles Barkley

And just think, Lebron is even worse than that. But hey, chin up slugger. You still have LBJ nut on your shirt...

 

[frytening]

Stop being Lebronphobic, you disgusting bigot!

This is possibly the best response ever.

 

[Battlelyon]

And just think, Lebron is even worse than that.

You might as well stop talking basketball if you actually believe that.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

You might as well stop talking basketball if you actually believe that.

I know it really, really hurts your feelings that the numbers don't support your weak, weak argument so please explain why you think Lebron is superior when Bird has the superior defensive win shares rating. And please spare us the "that is a stupid stat" argument. You are gonna have to come with something better than that. I eagerly await your response.

 

[gordontrue]

All defensive 1st Team Selections:

Larry Bird: 0
LeBron James: 5

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

All defensive 1st Team Selections:

Larry Bird: 0
LeBron James: 5

Larry Bird defensive win shares rank 30 (59.03)
Lebron James defensive win shares rank 39 (54.40)

What is Defensive Win Shares - DWS?
A metric that estimates the number of wins a player produces for his team due to his defensive ability. This number is generally calculated using full-season statistics.

IV. Crediting Defensive Win Shares to Players
A. 1973-74 to present NBA
Crediting Defensive Win Shares to players is based on Dean Oliver's Defensive Rating. Defensive Rating is an estimate of the player's points allowed per 100 defensive possessions (please see Oliver's book for further details). Here is a description of the process (using LeBron James in 2008-09 as an example):

1. Calculate the Defensive Rating for each player. James's Defensive Rating in 2008-09 was 99.1.
2. Calculate marginal defense for each player. Marginal defense is equal to (player minutes played / team minutes played) * (team defensive possessions) * (1.08 * (league points per possession) - ((Defensive Rating) / 100)). For James this is (3054 / 19780) * 7341 * ((1.08 * 1.083) - (99.1 / 100)) = 202.5. Note that this formula may produce a negative result for some players.
3. Calculate marginal points per win. Marginal points per win reduces to 0.32 * (league points per game) * ((team pace) / (league pace)). For the 2008-09 Cavaliers this is 0.32 * 100.0 * (88.7 / 91.7) = 30.95.
4. Credit Defensive Win Shares to the players. Defensive Win Shares are credited using the following formula: (marginal defense) / (marginal points per win). James gets credit for 202.5 / 30.95 = 6.54 Defensive Win Shares.

Sorry. Awards don't supersede facts...

 

[Battlelyon]

Hall of Fame basketball legend Rick Barry says LeBron James is the greatest small forward to ever play the game. And he thinks James can get even better. Barry told Scott Ferrall of CBS Radio that of all the great small forwards-- including Scottie Pippen, Elgin Baylor and Larry Bird -- that James is the best. "There's never been anybody like him with his size, his athleticism, his feel for the game," said Barry. Wait, better than Bird -- with his three rings and sport-changing game?

Yup, especially if you look at Barry's three considerations. Bird had the feel, and the height if not the size, but Bird would be the first to tell you James is head and shoulders above him athletically. There's still the matter of pure shooting, where Bird has an edge, but add defense and LeBron James comes out on top.

 

[trojanfan12]

Hall of Fame basketball legend Rick Barry says LeBron James is the greatest small forward to ever play the game. And he thinks James can get even better. Barry told Scott Ferrall of CBS Radio that of all the great small forwards-- including Scottie Pippen, Elgin Baylor and Larry Bird -- that James is the best. "There's never been anybody like him with his size, his athleticism, his feel for the game," said Barry. Wait, better than Bird -- with his three rings and sport-changing game?

Yup, especially if you look at Barry's three considerations. Bird had the feel, and the height if not the size, but Bird would be the first to tell you James is head and shoulders above him athletically. There's still the matter of pure shooting, where Bird has an edge, but add defense and LeBron James comes out on top.

Bird doesn't really compare himself to Lebron. He compares himself to better players like MJ and Magic.

As for Lebron coming out on top defensively, the stats don't back that up.

 

[Malibu]

Good to see things haven't changed at all.

 

[trojanfan12]

Good to see things haven't changed at all.

Hey bro. Where ya been?

How's heatmyshorts mom?

 

[Hbomb]

So, I'm guessing you didn't watch basketball in that era. The difference is the offenses that were run, not the defense that was played. Offenses in that era didn't have the iso's, etc. where one guy holds the ball for 15 seconds before starting any kind of offense. There was an actual flow to the game. Plus, defense was all man to man. There was no zone like there is now.

This^^