AL Central Discussion

[mr.hockey4242]

This thread is not nearly as fun when Wiggy ducks tail and runs

Ill get the little guy going. Only threat to the Twins the next 5 years is the Tigers.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Now that it is officially over its a bummer- it was "really" over when they waived the flag at the deadline- but now that its really over its a bummer.

Gotta say though- Tanner Bibee is not going to win AL ROY with Henderson out there- but damn.

It has been a while since an AL rookie pitcher had this good of a year. Right now he at 136.2 IP, 3.03 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 137 K's. I would definitely not let him get over 150 IP in his first MLB season- its time to start thinking about shutting him down.

Gavin Williams and Allen in the same boat.

To have Bibee, Allen and Williams with tons of control in front of them and basically spending no money on them is so huge for this team.

It is also important that Bieber and McKenzie are progressing and both look like (look like- not 100%) they have avoided surgery. I would love if Bieber came back and threw a few innings just to show he is healthy in case a trade came up in the offseason that they could not say no to.

Quintrell also finally getting healthy is nice too- he looks to be back to the guy he has been the last couple years. What a bitch that your top 3 starters all get hurt - kudos to Bieber and Quintrell for trying to pitch through it as long as they did.

Bo Naylor seems to be coming around which is nice as well. I think he is finally starting to relax a little- the Guardians put a lot on their catchers and are so pitching focused it looked like he was lost at times hitting early on this year- but lately it seems he has really started to relax and start hitting like the high-level prospect everyone thought he was.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Fantasy baseball I need 7 starts for the time period Monday to Sunday.

Alcantra just got hurt which blows for me. Strider just got pushed back because he is sick- so instead of 2 starts he gets 1. Kershaw has 2 starts but he has not pitched great lately and one is against the Padres who hit lefties really well. There are some pitchers in free agency.

Who would you guys recommend?

These are my definites:
1. S. Strider vs. PHI 9/13
2. C. Kershaw vs. SEA 9/16
3. H. Brown vs. OAK 9/13
4. M. Clevinger vs. KC 9/13

Here are some other options:
1. G. Williams vs. SF 9/11
2. C. Quintrell vs. SF 9/13
3. W. Miley vs. MIA 9/13
4. E. Perez vs. MIL 9/13
5. J. Quintana vs. ARI 9/11
6. C. Javier vs. KC 9/14
7. K. Maeda vs. CHW 9/14


I need 7- I already picked up Clevinger vs. KC--- and I think Brown is a good start against OAK. Strider a definite vs. PHI. I think Kershaw definite vs. SEA.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Also- question at 2nd base-

B. Lowe of Tampa or D. Schneider of TOR?

Schneider batted 4th today. I am kinda leaning towarsd him but its close.

 

[WiggyRuss]

for better or worse (for worse for my time usually) I am in 2 fantasy baseball leagues. 1 I have been in forever with college buddies- its been going for 14 years.........I am in first right now. It is a roto league with an auction and you get up to 8 keepers a year that are $5 more than the previous year. Extremely competitive. small minor leagues where you have 5 minor leaguers and can keep a guy down in the minors until the year after they lose rookie eligibility (so for instance a guy like Bibee lost rookie eligibility this year- I would have to bring him up next year or release him).

one of my high school buddies asked me to be in his head-to-head league and this is my 5th year in it. It was not very competitive at the beginning but is definitely a lot more competitive than it used to be.....that is the one i am in the playoffs- its an every year re-draft.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

 

[WiggyRuss]

Quintrell has been pretty darn good since hes been back gotta say. Looks healthy.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lopeze has been good. Itll be so intresintg to see what he does in the playoffs


do have to say- Gimenez has definitely had a higher WAR than Julien since that post on July 20th......not even really close. I have to admit- even I am surprised at how much Julien has fallen apart. Lewis has been unbelievable.

 

[WiggyRuss]

This thread is not nearly as fun when Wiggy ducks tail and runs

Ill get the little guy going. Only threat to the Twins the next 5 years is the Tigers.

each team has its own strengths and weaknesses. Guardians should definitely be the favorite over the long run- though the Twins, White Sox and Tigers all have their arguments.

White Sox- if they could ever get it together have the financial muscle to be the best team in the division. Luis Roberts has eclipsed Ramirez as the best player in the division. But this whole roster iteration has failed- their minors are so-so, and they have a long way to go--- though they really have very little bad money on the books and could get back into it quick if they wanted to building around Roberts. Eloy Jimenez is always hurt- is basically a more talented Kiriloff.

They can spend- and dont have a ton on the books that is really bad money. Moncada at 25M, Benintendi at 17M, and Hendricks and Anderson at 15M club options. Eloy and Roberts each making 13M....Bummer at 6M- Clevinger at 12M.......that already gets them to about 120M if they decline Clevinger and pickup Anderson and Hendricks- which I dont know if they do or not- and thats before any arbitration guys. Maybe they spend a little in the offseason but I kind of doubt it.

Tigers have a lot going for them if they can get the pitching to stay healthy. Manning, Skubal and Mize at one time were all top tier prospects and all have shown some success. ERod is a free agent at the end of the year but it seems he likes being there and is likely to be back. Torkelson has been the best power hitter in the division over the 2nd half. Greene looks like he could have some all star seasons in him potentially- though he has slowed down of late. They have some super high draft picks still on the way from being so bad- Clark, Jobe, Jung. They need a lot of health and development but the potential is there.

Tigers have very little $ on the books next year beside Baez- so resigning ERod will be easy if they want to do it. They will probably spend in the offseason- esp since most people assume CAbrera will come off the books.

Twins have Buxton, Correa signed up forever making about a combined 45M. Correa turns 29 in a week or so. So much for the Twins depends on if this is the real Correa- or if he is having a down season and can bounce back. Is he the 5+ WAR player of last year or the 2 WAR player of this year? Will Buxton ever be healthy? Lewis looks like a young Correa right now- where does he settle in? Do Julien and WAllner's bats make up for defensive deficiencies and where do they play? Does Kiriloffs big time talent ever come together for a full season? Is Jeffers big step up for real? he is only 26 and catchers bats sometimes develop late. Polanco and Kepler- long time Twins- Polanco vested for next year- Kepler might be gone.

Kepler, Taylor and Gallo have 22, 21, and 20 homers. Are all 3 gone next year? Kepler 10M option- Gallo and Taylor are free agents. A lot of pieces on the Twins but its very unclear who will be there, who wont be- easy to say guys like Wallner, Julien, Larnach, and Kiriloff can replace guys like Kepler, Taylor, Gallo but until they do it- its projection. Pitching wise- Lopez is signed up and looks like he took a leap from mid rotation to something more- cant wait to see how he shows up in the plaffs. Gray is a free agent and likely not back. Ryan and Ober have had good moments and not so good moments. Maeda is prob. gone and Varland is trying to gain some confidence in the bullpen. Not sure what happened with Ober. Did they lose confidence? IS it an innings issue? hes not exactly a young guy.

Payroll wise- you have Buxton and Correa at 45M- Polanco vested at about 10 or so. Kepler otpion at 10. Lopez still only at 8 next year until he jumps up the next year. Vazeuez at 10M. That is about 75M without arbitration guys if they keep Kepler and Polanco. They need another starter--- Lopez, Ryan, Ober is not a top 3 you actively try and win with. Duran looks like a solid closer- but they need bullpen help- spending money on a bullpen sucks but they need to do it in the offseason- something that might bite them in this post season. Need to sign a starter and that will be expensive. Maybe Paddack becomes a back end guy if/when he gets healthy?

Guardians are again the youngest team in baseball this year after being the youngest team in baseball last year. Obviously they are not repeating the 92 win season and playoff series win and pushing the Yankees. Biggest question is with Bieber, McKenzie and Quintrell- are they healthy? Do they trade Bieber? laid the ground work for a solid, cheap rotation with Williams, Allen and Bibee. Can Espino comeback from injury? Looks like both Naylor brothers are developing into solid players. Jose has been good this year but not great- is it an off year or a trend to come? Do guys like Manzardo, Rocchio, Valera develop? Gimenez and Kwan continue their defensive excellence but took a step back hitting wise. Gimenez has been better lately but Kwan is still a sub. .350 OBP- he needs to be closer to last year than this year hitting wise to be an impact guy. Do they really let Straw play another whole season in center with a terrible bat just because his glove is one of the best in baseball?

Tons of pitching- Bieber, McKenzie, Quintrell, Bibee, Williams, Allen, Espino, etc.....comes down to the bats. Gimenez and Kwan need to be more 2022 then 2023. They dealt a solid starter in Civale for Manzardo- he needs to come through. Bo Naylor looks legit and finally comfortable. Josh Naylor and Ramirez are solid run producers but they obviously need help. They need at least 1 more big bat brought in from outside of hte organization- and for at least 1 or 2 guys like Rocchio, Valera, or Manzardo to really make an impact.

They never spend much- but the payroll is as clean as can be. Ramirez at 22- Gimenez at 5- Straw at 4, Clase at 3- super clean books. Bieber will obviously make at least 12 in arbitration if he is on the team. Quintrell and Naylor should each make around 7 or so in arbitration. Getting rid of Plesac, Civale, Zunino, Rosario, Bell means they will have money to spend to a certain extent.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Lopeze has been good. Itll be so intresintg to see what he does in the playoffs


do have to say- Gimenez has definitely had a higher WAR than Julien since that post on July 20th......not even really close. I have to admit- even I am surprised at how much Julien has fallen apart. Lewis has been unbelievable.

Gimenez has been terrible offensively still. Juliens being too selective with the bat and its hurt his hitting but hes still walking at an insane rate at leadoff.

And for the 10th time. YOu argued Polanco. You made the dumbest possible comment and said that Polanco was a "quaszi journeyman" even though hes had a solidly above average OPS+ every season since 2018 aside from the COVID year. And that adding him would not be a big addition.

Like I told you Polanco unlike Gimenez isnt a 1 year wonder and would be a huge impact bat to get back. Hes been even more than that.

I also told you that Polanco would clear Gimenez in his return....not even close. You had a meltdown about Gimenez vs Polanco long term(huge age gap so duh). But the whole case was right now. And Polanco absolutely shits on him.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

each team has its own strengths and weaknesses. Guardians should definitely be the favorite over the long run- though the Twins, White Sox and Tigers all have their arguments.

White Sox- if they could ever get it together have the financial muscle to be the best team in the division. Luis Roberts has eclipsed Ramirez as the best player in the division. But this whole roster iteration has failed- their minors are so-so, and they have a long way to go--- though they really have very little bad money on the books and could get back into it quick if they wanted to building around Roberts. Eloy Jimenez is always hurt- is basically a more talented Kiriloff.

They can spend- and dont have a ton on the books that is really bad money. Moncada at 25M, Benintendi at 17M, and Hendricks and Anderson at 15M club options. Eloy and Roberts each making 13M....Bummer at 6M- Clevinger at 12M.......that already gets them to about 120M if they decline Clevinger and pickup Anderson and Hendricks- which I dont know if they do or not- and thats before any arbitration guys. Maybe they spend a little in the offseason but I kind of doubt it.

Tigers have a lot going for them if they can get the pitching to stay healthy. Manning, Skubal and Mize at one time were all top tier prospects and all have shown some success. ERod is a free agent at the end of the year but it seems he likes being there and is likely to be back. Torkelson has been the best power hitter in the division over the 2nd half. Greene looks like he could have some all star seasons in him potentially- though he has slowed down of late. They have some super high draft picks still on the way from being so bad- Clark, Jobe, Jung. They need a lot of health and development but the potential is there.

Tigers have very little $ on the books next year beside Baez- so resigning ERod will be easy if they want to do it. They will probably spend in the offseason- esp since most people assume CAbrera will come off the books.

Twins have Buxton, Correa signed up forever making about a combined 45M. Correa turns 29 in a week or so. So much for the Twins depends on if this is the real Correa- or if he is having a down season and can bounce back. Is he the 5+ WAR player of last year or the 2 WAR player of this year? Will Buxton ever be healthy? Lewis looks like a young Correa right now- where does he settle in? Do Julien and WAllner's bats make up for defensive deficiencies and where do they play? Does Kiriloffs big time talent ever come together for a full season? Is Jeffers big step up for real? he is only 26 and catchers bats sometimes develop late. Polanco and Kepler- long time Twins- Polanco vested for next year- Kepler might be gone.

Kepler, Taylor and Gallo have 22, 21, and 20 homers. Are all 3 gone next year? Kepler 10M option- Gallo and Taylor are free agents. A lot of pieces on the Twins but its very unclear who will be there, who wont be- easy to say guys like Wallner, Julien, Larnach, and Kiriloff can replace guys like Kepler, Taylor, Gallo but until they do it- its projection. Pitching wise- Lopez is signed up and looks like he took a leap from mid rotation to something more- cant wait to see how he shows up in the plaffs. Gray is a free agent and likely not back. Ryan and Ober have had good moments and not so good moments. Maeda is prob. gone and Varland is trying to gain some confidence in the bullpen. Not sure what happened with Ober. Did they lose confidence? IS it an innings issue? hes not exactly a young guy.

Payroll wise- you have Buxton and Correa at 45M- Polanco vested at about 10 or so. Kepler otpion at 10. Lopez still only at 8 next year until he jumps up the next year. Vazeuez at 10M. That is about 75M without arbitration guys if they keep Kepler and Polanco. They need another starter--- Lopez, Ryan, Ober is not a top 3 you actively try and win with. Duran looks like a solid closer- but they need bullpen help- spending money on a bullpen sucks but they need to do it in the offseason- something that might bite them in this post season. Need to sign a starter and that will be expensive. Maybe Paddack becomes a back end guy if/when he gets healthy?

Guardians are again the youngest team in baseball this year after being the youngest team in baseball last year. Obviously they are not repeating the 92 win season and playoff series win and pushing the Yankees. Biggest question is with Bieber, McKenzie and Quintrell- are they healthy? Do they trade Bieber? laid the ground work for a solid, cheap rotation with Williams, Allen and Bibee. Can Espino comeback from injury? Looks like both Naylor brothers are developing into solid players. Jose has been good this year but not great- is it an off year or a trend to come? Do guys like Manzardo, Rocchio, Valera develop? Gimenez and Kwan continue their defensive excellence but took a step back hitting wise. Gimenez has been better lately but Kwan is still a sub. .350 OBP- he needs to be closer to last year than this year hitting wise to be an impact guy. Do they really let Straw play another whole season in center with a terrible bat just because his glove is one of the best in baseball?

Tons of pitching- Bieber, McKenzie, Quintrell, Bibee, Williams, Allen, Espino, etc.....comes down to the bats. Gimenez and Kwan need to be more 2022 then 2023. They dealt a solid starter in Civale for Manzardo- he needs to come through. Bo Naylor looks legit and finally comfortable. Josh Naylor and Ramirez are solid run producers but they obviously need help. They need at least 1 more big bat brought in from outside of hte organization- and for at least 1 or 2 guys like Rocchio, Valera, or Manzardo to really make an impact.

They never spend much- but the payroll is as clean as can be. Ramirez at 22- Gimenez at 5- Straw at 4, Clase at 3- super clean books. Bieber will obviously make at least 12 in arbitration if he is on the team. Quintrell and Naylor should each make around 7 or so in arbitration. Getting rid of Plesac, Civale, Zunino, Rosario, Bell means they will have money to spend to a certain extent.

This is why you mighty be clincially insane.

1. Kepler almost certainly back
2. Easier said than done replacing fucking Michael A Taylor and Joey Gallo??

This is why you cant be taken seriously. Gallo doesnt even play and Taylor while hes been a god send to hlep with Buxton is the definition of the journeyman you tried to say Polanco was when shrugging your shoulders

You are so in over your head with baseball its hilarious. Serious question, do you actually watch baseball? Or just a few Guardians games and nothing else?

Twins are heavy favorites in the division for the next 5 years with the Tigers as the best competition and White Sox as the wild card. Guardians are 3rd(4th depending on chicago).

 

[catman]

I wouldn't mind seeing Taylor come back next season. He is great defensively and can play all 3 OF positions. If Buxton comes back healthy, he slides into the 4th OF spot seamlessly. He won't cost a whole lot.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I wouldn't mind seeing Taylor come back next season. He is great defensively and can play all 3 OF positions. If Buxton comes back healthy, he slides into the 4th OF spot seamlessly. He won't cost a whole lot.

Absolutely. If Taylor is willing to take a similar deal Id bring him back 100%.

But the notion hes some huge replacement is fucking insane.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

There are two things that could cause the playoff losing streak to hit 20.

1. Bullpen implosions. This is on the FO they chose not to add in the off season or at the deadline.

2. Our insanely idiotic and predictable platoon strategy. Every single manager is taking advtange of it and eating us alive. Rocco is so fucking dumb. Bochy, Francona, Cash. All of them have known what is coming and gotten the edge.

Tito knew the Guardians had 1 lefty available for multiple games(hentges wasnt gonna go 1 game and MOore the other). What does he do? He goes to his 1 lefty in the 6th. Knowing full well Rocco will pull Wallner for Luplow or some other righty. KNowing later in the 8th when that spot comes up again hes got right on right.

Today in the 9th, two outs and guy on second. Lefty in and righty warming. Cash knows Rocco is gonna pinching hit CHRISTIAN VAZQUEZ for Julien. Vazquez has a OPS of .598 isnt even good vs lefties. Cash brings in the righty and blows him away on 3 pitches.

A few weeks ago Bochy had a righty in. Farmer up. Knew Twins would pinch hit Julien for Farmer. We did. Then he called in the lefty for Julien knowing we would just pinch hit Julien for again.....VAZQUEZ.

Instead of letting Farmer go right on right or Julien left on lefty. We got stuck with Vazquez and burned two players.

Its laughable and every single manager is ready for it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

This is why you mighty be clincially insane.

1. Kepler almost certainly back
2. Easier said than done replacing fucking Michael A Taylor and Joey Gallo??

This is why you cant be taken seriously. Gallo doesnt even play and Taylor while hes been a god send to hlep with Buxton is the definition of the journeyman you tried to say Polanco was when shrugging your shoulders

You are so in over your head with baseball its hilarious. Serious question, do you actually watch baseball? Or just a few Guardians games and nothing else?

Twins are heavy favorites in the division for the next 5 years with the Tigers as the best competition and White Sox as the wild card. Guardians are 3rd(4th depending on chicago).

I am just saying- you have almst 65 homers combined between Taylor, Gallo and Kepler......I would take Kiriloff above any of those guys (and I do think its funny you are backing up Kepler now after ripping him and wanting to get rid of him most of the season). Will they pick up a 10M option on Kepler? maybe maybe not.

I am just saying replacing production can be tricker than it looks sometimes. Like Isaid- I would rather have Kirloff- but Michael Taylor has 20 homers and 13 steals this year- Kiriloff has 21 hoemrs and 3 steals in his career because of injury and ineffectiveness.

Just saying a guy is going to slot in and be fine is a dangerous proposition in baseball.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Its why- as much as I think Rocchio, Manzardo and Valera will have solid major league careers- to count on them to produce is foolish. Its almost impossible to say- It is why I think the Guardians have to go out and get 2 bats--- at least 1 very legit and one middle of the road for RF/DH/1B rotation....Naylor and Manzardo will be in that rotation- but you need production you can count in.

Taylor has really been a pleasant surprise for the Twins- he plays a good CF, is one of their only guys with any speed and has some pop. Gallo is kind of a bum- but 20 bombs is 280 at bats is not nothing that is for sure.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I am just saying- you have almst 65 homers combined between Taylor, Gallo and Kepler......I would take Kiriloff above any of those guys (and I do think its funny you are backing up Kepler now after ripping him and wanting to get rid of him most of the season). Will they pick up a 10M option on Kepler? maybe maybe not.

I am just saying replacing production can be tricker than it looks sometimes. Like Isaid- I would rather have Kirloff- but Michael Taylor has 20 homers and 13 steals this year- Kiriloff has 21 hoemrs and 3 steals in his career because of injury and ineffectiveness.

Just saying a guy is going to slot in and be fine is a dangerous proposition in baseball.

ummm im not backing up Kepler.

Its just factual that a guy with his production this year and known defense will get his 10 mil option picked up. Like its one of the bigger no brainer in sports. Due to his inconsistency he might suck again next year and potentially become trade bait, but hes 100% coming back. I think Polanco will be too now that hes proving to be healthy and play everyday, just too cheap of a deal to not.

Why are you comparing Michael A Taylor to Kirlloff haha. One guy is a CF other guy is a 1B and emergency corner outfielder. They dont impact either players PT single bit.

Gallo? Yes. AK makes him obsolete.

Twins have Austin Martin ready to go if they dont have a healthy Buxton and Michael A moves on. Sorry but Taylor has been much better than anyone expected but hes a total journeyman, hes not a guy a team scrambles to replace. Shit hes been on the IL all month and weve been just fine with Castro/Stevenson in center.

 

[WiggyRuss]

ummm im not backing up Kepler.

Its just factual that a guy with his production this year and known defense will get his 10 mil option picked up. Like its one of the bigger no brainer in sports. Due to his inconsistency he might suck again next year and potentially become trade bait, but hes 100% coming back. I think Polanco will be too now that hes proving to be healthy and play everyday, just too cheap of a deal to not.

Why are you comparing Michael A Taylor to Kirlloff haha. One guy is a CF other guy is a 1B and emergency corner outfielder. They dont impact either players PT single bit.

Gallo? Yes. AK makes him obsolete.

Twins have Austin Martin ready to go if they dont have a healthy Buxton and Michael A moves on. Sorry but Taylor has been much better than anyone expected but hes a total journeyman, hes not a guy a team scrambles to replace. Shit hes been on the IL all month and weve been just fine with Castro/Stevenson in center.

plus- you should just admit that Quintrell is just one of those guys that defies the advanced stats.

some guys just have odd games and babip, fip, etc. just do not apply as much.

of course McKenzie and Bieber are due back soon. lol....way too little too late.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

plus- you should just admit that Quintrell is just one of those guys that defies the advanced stats.

some guys just have odd games and babip, fip, etc. just do not apply as much.

of course McKenzie and Bieber are due back soon. lol....way too little too late.

Quantril sucks

Youre doing cartwheels after 3 starts two of which are against terrible offenses and his start vs Giants took insane defense to even have him survive.

Whats odd tho is you dont even need to defend this guy. Unless Bieber is traded hes the clear 6th man right now for Guards. Which doesnt include some potential minors options like a healthy Espino or maybe Gaddis turning a corner.

And I mostly punching bag him because you compare him to guys with considerably more talent some even being position players like Lewis.

Cal is a guy that a team can survive with as a 4th/5th starter. Hes nothing more and nothing less really. The less would only be if you already have 5 good starters which Guards would have assuming health and no trade of Biebs

 

[WiggyRuss]

Quantril sucks

Youre doing cartwheels after 3 starts two of which are against terrible offenses and his start vs Giants took insane defense to even have him survive.

Whats odd tho is you dont even need to defend this guy. Unless Bieber is traded hes the clear 6th man right now for Guards. Which doesnt include some potential minors options like a healthy Espino or maybe Gaddis turning a corner.

And I mostly punching bag him because you compare him to guys with considerably more talent some even being position players like Lewis.

Cal is a guy that a team can survive with as a 4th/5th starter. Hes nothing more and nothing less really. The less would only be if you already have 5 good starters which Guards would have assuming health and no trade of Biebs

3 starts and 2 years. At what point- how many years would he have to do it to get some credit?