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2025 Rosterbation

filosofy29

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Your examples are ONLY really valid if the if the player oerforms at a high level. In that case you got 2 years of exceptional performance. BUT .. what happwns if the player underperforms for both years? In that case you may be paying top dollar for another 4 years for little performance.
It also handcuffs trade value at the deadline. If teams can’t afford his opt in, they either won’t make the trade or you’re trading him for Pennies on the dollar.
 

filosofy29

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I hadn’t really considered him, but now that we have been named as a potential landing spot for him, I took a look. They mention that Wade could be a part of the deal, but there is no way that is all it will take. Castillo has a LOT of money coming his way in the next 4 years (at least 67.5M with a complicated vesting 25M in ‘28), but he has been a consistent #1/#2 pretty much ever since we dumped him off on Miami in the McGahee trade.

I think Wade, Fitz and some scraps from the farm probably gets it done (with us eating the entire contract). We then target Kim for the 2B job in a separate deal.
I thought we all made a pact to never mention that name ever again?

:heh:
 

LHG

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I hadn’t really considered him, but now that we have been named as a potential landing spot for him, I took a look. They mention that Wade could be a part of the deal, but there is no way that is all it will take. Castillo has a LOT of money coming his way in the next 4 years (at least 67.5M with a complicated vesting 25M in ‘28), but he has been a consistent #1/#2 pretty much ever since we dumped him off on Miami in the McGahee trade.

I think Wade, Fitz and some scraps from the farm probably gets it done (with us eating the entire contract). We then target Kim for the 2B job in a separate deal.
Booo!!!!
 

SF11704

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Well, that is the other option, sure. But with no opt-out, you’ve got him for the whole 6 years, regardless of performance.
Abd as you stated ... the opt out clause is really tailored to the player's benefit. If he does well he leaves and everyone wins to some extent. If he under performs the team usually bears the brunt of what's happening. This is all being caused by the introduction of all these long term contracts. The process clearly favors the player and the player's agent. It's designrd for maximym return for the player. If he performs great he leaves and looks to up his oayroll. If he faulters he just sits tight and still recives top dollar.
 

tzill

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Why would they care so much about an opt out? In this case, you get a motivated guy for 2 years and can plan accordingly. If he underperforms, you are stuck with the whole contract. If he meets/exceeds expectations he’s probably going to opt out. Why is that bad for the signing team v. a straight 6 year deal?
I think you answered your own question.

Also the same scenario if he's hurt. Giving him 4 years of insurance on a 2 year contract just doesn't make sense.
 

chappee11

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I think you answered your own question.

Also the same scenario if he's hurt. Giving him 4 years of insurance on a 2 year contract just doesn't make sense.
So, is it better to just not participate at the top tier of free agency as a general practice? I’m not saying it’s wrong or right, but that does end up being the end result with a lot of these guys who do want the opt-outs(and can mostly dictate their terms).
 

sf1giantfan

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So, is it better to just not participate at the top tier of free agency as a general practice? I’m not saying it’s wrong or right, but that does end up being the end result with a lot of these guys who do want the opt-outs(and can mostly dictate their terms).
It’s even worse when we lose draft picks.
 

chappee11

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It’s even worse when we lose draft picks.
Yes, especially if you have a front office that drafts well(on average). I don’t follow the Giants well enough to know how they have done with their draft picks recently, however.
 

calsnowskier

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Yes, especially if you have a front office that drafts well(on average). I don’t follow the Giants well enough to know how they have done with their draft picks recently, however.
The Giants are historically the WORST drafting team in the MLB. By just about any metric.
 

sf1giantfan

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The Giants are historically the WORST drafting team in the MLB. By just about any metric.
Which still boggles my mind that the Giants do not confront this head on. Get new scouts, look at how other successful teams do it, but instead nothing changes. I thought Posey would make a change or give his opinion at least considering he was part of the last successful group of rookies to come through our farm system.
 

calsnowskier

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Which still boggles my mind that the Giants do not confront this head on. Get new scouts, look at how other successful teams do it, but instead nothing changes. I thought Posey would make a change or give his opinion at least considering he was part of the last successful group of rookies to come through our farm system.
Posey has been “The Man” for a grand total of 2.5 hours. Don’t make any sweeping proclamations about anything he has or hasn’t done.

Cultural navigation of huge organizations that have been around for over 100 years is hard to adjust. Posey MAY have it on his agenda to fix that organizational liability. MAYBE he doesn’t. We all are fans of Posey, so we all ignorantly assume that he wants the same thing we want.

But remember, he is an OWNER. There is no reason for us to believe he isn’t in this for the money, first and foremost. When we complain about “ownership”, we need to remember that that includes Posey.
 

LHG

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Posey has been “The Man” for a grand total of 2.5 hours. Don’t make any sweeping proclamations about anything he has or hasn’t done.

Cultural navigation of huge organizations that have been around for over 100 years is hard to adjust. Posey MAY have it on his agenda to fix that organizational liability. MAYBE he doesn’t. We all are fans of Posey, so we all ignorantly assume that he wants the same thing we want.

But remember, he is an OWNER. There is no reason for us to believe he isn’t in this for the money, first and foremost. When we complain about “ownership”, we need to remember that that includes Posey.
That is a very good point but it also means that Posey has had more than 2.5 hours to shape the culture.
 

SF11704

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We need to be careful with iur expectations here. Posey was a great player and a great team leader. These skills don't necessarily translate into great ownership skills. Because one plays the game well doesn't mean they can either manage or build a team. As a player you are part of the 'product' of something called a team. As an owner you are trying to build that product. Very different mundset and skillset. Posey understands rhe product but does he have rhe skill to build it ..
 

LHG

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We need to be careful with iur expectations here. Posey was a great player and a great team leader. These skills don't necessarily translate into great ownership skills. Because one plays the game well doesn't mean they can either manage or build a team. As a player you are part of the 'product' of something called a team. As an owner you are trying to build that product. Very different mundset and skillset. Posey understands rhe product but does he have rhe skill to build it ..
Just because he is Buster Posey doesn't mean that I expect him to do great things as a VP. I do understand that he could fall flat on his face. I do try to avoid expectations early in a new regime's tenure, especially if they have no previous experience. However, I don't really know if Posey, much like FZ, has much leeway in building the team. It may well be that ownership tells the FO how to build and they then try to figure out how to do so within those perimeters. Makes me wonder if we will see much difference from FZ to Posey (although Posey has not played the waiver wire nearly to the same extent as FZ did, especially early in his tenure).
 

calsnowskier

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Just because he is Buster Posey doesn't mean that I expect him to do great things as a VP. I do understand that he could fall flat on his face. I do try to avoid expectations early in a new regime's tenure, especially if they have no previous experience. However, I don't really know if Posey, much like FZ, has much leeway in building the team. It may well be that ownership tells the FO how to build and they then try to figure out how to do so within those perimeters. Makes me wonder if we will see much difference from FZ to Posey (although Posey has not played the waiver wire nearly to the same extent as FZ did, especially early in his tenure).
Working the waiver wire is a smart move. But FZ did it to a crazy level. I actually fear that the Giants (Posey) will avoid it completely as an overcorrect to FZs tenure.
 
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