2024 Rosterbation

[tzill]

The fact we were in on Cease says to me that we end up with Clevinger or Lorenzen. We need one more SP and either of those would a cost effective middle of the rotation arm.

 

[calsnowskier]

The fact we were in on Cease says to me that we end up with Clevinger or Lorenzen. We need one more SP and either of those would a cost effective middle of the rotation arm.

Were we, though? PAvs reports that we weren’t really that in on him. He reported FZ didn’t get in too deep because he didn’t see much of a fit with the two teams.

 

[LHG]

The top prospect they sent to the Sox (Thorpe) is generally rated as about a top 60 prospect. I think that kinda lines up with Lucy. The other two kids are not ranked nationally, but both look pretty good. Iriatre is a 22 yo pitcher who has already made it as high as AA. Without knowing anything about him, I would guess he would be expecting to make it to the bigs by ‘25. The other player is a 19 yo power hitting OFer who has already seen some time in high A. The major leaguer they sent is already 29, so Walker isn’t a good comp for him at all. He looks OK, but I think he is the “throw in” of the 4 players.

Good point on Thorpe. I didn't think to use the top 100 prospects list to make comparisons.

As for Wilson, I think the comp to Walker works. Both debuted in their age 27 seasons. Both have posted solid season thus far in the big leagues. Walker may have more Ks per 9 but Wilson puts less baserunners on. Either way, the cost was steep for the Padres and it seems like a lot for a guy who looked good in just one of his big league seasons thus far. It may work well for the Padres, it may backfire greatly.

 

[calsnowskier]

Good point on Thorpe. I didn't think to use the top 100 prospects list to make comparisons.

As for Wilson, I think the comp to Walker works. Both debuted in their age 27 seasons. Both have posted solid season thus far in the big leagues. Walker may have more Ks per 9 but Wilson puts less baserunners on. Either way, the cost was steep for the Padres and it seems like a lot for a guy who looked good in just one of his big league seasons thus far. It may work well for the Padres, it may backfire greatly.

And regardless, logically, the Giants are NOT in a “win now” position. We just aren’t that good. Not a good idea to liquidate prospects for “win now” players.

 

[LHG]

And regardless, logically, the Giants are NOT in a “win now” position. We just aren’t that good. Not a good idea to liquidate prospects for “win now” players.

Which is why I thought it was dumb to sign Chapman and lose an early draft pick and international slot money.

 

[SF11704]

And regardless, logically, the Giants are NOT in a “win now” position. We just aren’t that good. Not a good idea to liquidate prospects for “win now” players.

While I agree with you 100% I'm not sure that this is how the average fan approaches the season. I think that almost all of the members on this board are pretty well grounded in what to expect. It's tough to actually think that your team isn't quite there yet. Most fans want instant gratification and in general the club's management tries to give them something to work with. Anything that makes the fan base come to the stadium, purchase 'gear' and renew their 'baseball' subscriptions. A very tough road to actually follow. You really don't want to trade away your future for a long shot 'now' possibility .... but that possibility will sell seats, gear and baseball subscriptions .... but this approach won't work forever .... as we are entering year 6 .... there are a few grumbles within the fan base ...

 

[Sandisfan]

Which is why I thought it was dumb to sign Chapman and lose an early draft pick and international slot money.

Sadly one thing to throw in to the evaluation of Chapman's acquisition is what are the odds for this, bad drafting and bad international signing team of turning those into useful or good/great players. I do agree this front office needs as many darts to throw on prospects.

P.S. If the Giants were to for ten years trade as many past middle career players and got dozens of prospects to try to cultivate, that might not even be enough to fill the minors and then majors with players to play for Championships. Given this front office history, though we don't have enough history with FZ's reign to know if there has been an improvement.

 

[LHG]

Sadly one thing to throw in to the evaluation of Chapman's acquisition is what are the odds for this, bad drafting and bad international signing team of turning those into useful or good/great players. I do agree this front office needs as many darts to throw on prospects.

P.S. If the Giants were to for ten years trade as many past middle career players and got dozens of prospects to try to cultivate, that might not even be enough to fill the minors and then majors with players to play for Championships. Given this front office history, though we don't have enough history with FZ's reign to know if there has been an improvement.

It is true, both the draft and international signings are rolls of the dice. In my ignorant opinion, that means be as armed as possible to acquire as many players as possible in these avenues. A QO signing should be when the team is a sure fire contender, or becomes one with the signing.

 

[calsnowskier]

I like to look back at the Bonds years when thinking about what is fun about following a team. If you aren’t winning, then at least have someone to watch. The last few years, this team has been running on empty on star power. There was no reason to watch. The team was boring af. Soler and Lee, and to a lessor extent, Chapman, MIGHT make this team fun to follow, even if we don’t win.

 

[tzill]

I like to look back at the Bonds years when thinking about what is fun about following a team. If you aren’t winning, then at least have someone to watch. The last few years, this team has been running on empty on star power. There was no reason to watch. The team was boring af. Soler and Lee, and to a lessor extent, Chapman, MIGHT make this team fun to follow, even if we don’t win.

I'm looking forward to the young pitching.

Webb and Harry will be fun. I'm excited to see what Black, Winn, Roup, Whiz, Teng, etc. will do.

Though not young, I'm also excited to see Hicks and Ray.

 

[sf1giantfan]

I'm looking forward to the young pitching.

Webb and Harry will be fun. I'm excited to see what Black, Winn, Roup, Whiz, Teng, etc. will do.

Though not young, I'm also excited to see Hicks and Ray.

Not sure if I’m excited but curious for sure. I still believe this team will be better than last year simply because of our manager and coaching staff. So can’t wait to some extent.

 

[LHG]

Another pitcher headed to the IL

Ethan Small To Miss Several Weeks With Oblique Strain

The Giants announced to reporters, including Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle and Maria I. Guardado of MLB.com, that …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

 

[LHG]

Here is how I see the pitching staff shaping up for opening day:
Locks - Logan Webb, Jordan Hicks, Kyle Harrison, Camilo Doval, Taylor Rogers, Tyler Rogers, Luke Jackson, Ryan Walker
Open spots - 2 "rotation" spots, 3 bullpen spots
Leading candidates - "Rotation" - Keaton Winn, Mason Black, Spencer Howard, Daulton Jefferies, Nick Avila, Juan Sanchez, Spencer Bivens
Others in camp - Amir Garrett, Sean Hjelle, Juan Cruz, Blayne Enlow, Cody Stashak

First, let me give the reasons for why the "others in camp" group are not leading candidates to make the team. Garrett surely had the inside edge to a job in the bullpen but has looked awful in camp so far. That being said, he could turn it around and make the team quickly, especially with the group he is competing with. Hjelle also had the inside track but he may not be ready to pitch by opening day. Stashak has some big league experience but has not looked as good as the leading candidates. Both Cruz and Enlow have no big league experience and have not looked good.

Assuming Winn is able to ramp up enough to be considered ready for the start of the season, I expect him and Black to round out the starting 5. Howard has started games as well so it is possible that he makes it as the number 5 guy, with either Winn starting on the IL or Black in AAA. Otherwise, as tzill has pointed out, both he and Jefferies could be long men in the bullpen. Assuming the later happens with Howard, that leaves one bullpen spot for the trio of Avila, Sanchez and Bivens to compete for. None have big league experience. Both Avila and Sanchez threw in AAA last year, while Bivens has made it to AA. Bivens is also the oldest in the group, at 29 years old, so, combining his age and lack of experience at the upper levels of the minor leagues, he seems to the odd man out of the group. However, he also has been the most dominant. In 5.1 IP, he has given up 1 hit while striking out 6 batters. Sanchez has been almost as good, giving up 3 hits in 6 IP, with 8 Ks. Avila has been not as good, giving up 7 hits and a walk, with 10 Ks, in 7 IP. Basically, it seems like Bivens or Sanchez could earn the final spot right now but, with a couple of weeks to go, it is way too early to call it, especially since the Giants could just go out and pick up some other team's spring training castoff and put him in that spot.

 

[LHG]

For position players, here is how I see it as of this morning:
Locks - Patrick Bailey (assuming he heals quickly from the hand issue), Tom Murphy, Matt Chapman, Thairo Estrada, Wilmer Flores, Lamonte Wade, Michael Conforto, Jung Hoo Lee (assuming he also gets healthy quickly), Austin Slater (another possible injury concern), Mike Yastrzemski
Leading Candidates - Nick Ahmed, David Villar, Otto Lopez, Tyler Fitzgerald, Blake Sabol, Luis Matos, Chase Pinder
Others in camp - Joey Bart, Casey Schmitt, Ismael Munguia, Grant McCray, Pablo Sandoval, Marco Luciano, Jackson Reetz, Adrian Sugastay

Again, leading with guys less likely to make the team - Bart is hitting well but still unlikely to make the team, unless Murphy plays out to a worst case scenario and isn't ready by opening day. Even then, Bart's time is limited. Schmitt and Luciano have both hit poorly and have probably earned demotions to AAA to start the year. Munguia, on the other hand, has hit well but will likely only make the team if both Sabol and Slater aren't healthy enough to start the season. Reetz is only around to provide help at catcher. Sugastay and McCray are still technically in camp but hardly played. Sandoval has struck out in 10 of 15 at-bats. He looks done.
Ahmed looks like he's earned the starting shortstop nod. He is defensively better than Luciano and has hit much better. Of course, it is spring training and Ahmed's career numbers suggest that this spring is an aberration. He will keep the spot warm for other guys. Assuming he makes it and the 10 locks are all healthy enough to be on the opening day roster, there is a battle over the last 2 bench spots. Matos has, by far, hit the best among the 6 guys competing for these two spots. But I only envisioning him making the team if Sabol isn't healthy enough to avoid the IL. Otherwise, I think the Giants go with him for one of those spots, despite his tepid .182/.308/.182 line in 9 games. That also eliminates Chad Pinder from the team as well, even though he has also hit well in camp. That leaves Villar, Lopez and Fitzgerald battling it out for the last roster spot. Fitzgerald has the worst spring numbers of the 3, hitting only .192 but making the most of those plate appearances, walking 8 times in 34 PAs and making 3 of his 5 hits for extra bases. Lopez currently sports a .909 OPS but Villar is above both at 1.055. This could be his last chance to make the team and could possibly do so with Davis gone.

 

[LHG]

Here is how I see the pitching staff shaping up for opening day:
Locks - Logan Webb, Jordan Hicks, Kyle Harrison, Camilo Doval, Taylor Rogers, Tyler Rogers, Luke Jackson, Ryan Walker
Open spots - 2 "rotation" spots, 3 bullpen spots
Leading candidates - "Rotation" - Keaton Winn, Mason Black, Spencer Howard, Daulton Jefferies, Nick Avila, Juan Sanchez, Spencer Bivens
Others in camp - Amir Garrett, Sean Hjelle, Juan Cruz, Blayne Enlow, Cody Stashak

First, let me give the reasons for why the "others in camp" group are not leading candidates to make the team. Garrett surely had the inside edge to a job in the bullpen but has looked awful in camp so far. That being said, he could turn it around and make the team quickly, especially with the group he is competing with. Hjelle also had the inside track but he may not be ready to pitch by opening day. Stashak has some big league experience but has not looked as good as the leading candidates. Both Cruz and Enlow have no big league experience and have not looked good.

Assuming Winn is able to ramp up enough to be considered ready for the start of the season, I expect him and Black to round out the starting 5. Howard has started games as well so it is possible that he makes it as the number 5 guy, with either Winn starting on the IL or Black in AAA. Otherwise, as tzill has pointed out, both he and Jefferies could be long men in the bullpen. Assuming the later happens with Howard, that leaves one bullpen spot for the trio of Avila, Sanchez and Bivens to compete for. None have big league experience. Both Avila and Sanchez threw in AAA last year, while Bivens has made it to AA. Bivens is also the oldest in the group, at 29 years old, so, combining his age and lack of experience at the upper levels of the minor leagues, he seems to the odd man out of the group. However, he also has been the most dominant. In 5.1 IP, he has given up 1 hit while striking out 6 batters. Sanchez has been almost as good, giving up 3 hits in 6 IP, with 8 Ks. Avila has been not as good, giving up 7 hits and a walk, with 10 Ks, in 7 IP. Basically, it seems like Bivens or Sanchez could earn the final spot right now but, with a couple of weeks to go, it is way too early to call it, especially since the Giants could just go out and pick up some other team's spring training castoff and put him in that spot.

Oops, forgot Roupp. He is an Other in camp for me right now. His outcomes have been mixed and I don't think the Giants would rush him unless he looked better in camp.
Also forgot to mention that Small is likely to go on the IL so he is not in consideration right now.

 

[LHG]

For position players, here is how I see it as of this morning:
Locks - Patrick Bailey (assuming he heals quickly from the hand issue), Tom Murphy, Matt Chapman, Thairo Estrada, Wilmer Flores, Lamonte Wade, Michael Conforto, Jung Hoo Lee (assuming he also gets healthy quickly), Austin Slater (another possible injury concern), Mike Yastrzemski
Leading Candidates - Nick Ahmed, David Villar, Otto Lopez, Tyler Fitzgerald, Blake Sabol, Luis Matos, Chase Pinder
Others in camp - Joey Bart, Casey Schmitt, Ismael Munguia, Grant McCray, Pablo Sandoval, Marco Luciano, Jackson Reetz, Adrian Sugastay

Again, leading with guys less likely to make the team - Bart is hitting well but still unlikely to make the team, unless Murphy plays out to a worst case scenario and isn't ready by opening day. Even then, Bart's time is limited. Schmitt and Luciano have both hit poorly and have probably earned demotions to AAA to start the year. Munguia, on the other hand, has hit well but will likely only make the team if both Sabol and Slater aren't healthy enough to start the season. Reetz is only around to provide help at catcher. Sugastay and McCray are still technically in camp but hardly played. Sandoval has struck out in 10 of 15 at-bats. He looks done.
Ahmed looks like he's earned the starting shortstop nod. He is defensively better than Luciano and has hit much better. Of course, it is spring training and Ahmed's career numbers suggest that this spring is an aberration. He will keep the spot warm for other guys. Assuming he makes it and the 10 locks are all healthy enough to be on the opening day roster, there is a battle over the last 2 bench spots. Matos has, by far, hit the best among the 6 guys competing for these two spots. But I only envisioning him making the team if Sabol isn't healthy enough to avoid the IL. Otherwise, I think the Giants go with him for one of those spots, despite his tepid .182/.308/.182 line in 9 games. That also eliminates Chad Pinder from the team as well, even though he has also hit well in camp. That leaves Villar, Lopez and Fitzgerald battling it out for the last roster spot. Fitzgerald has the worst spring numbers of the 3, hitting only .192 but making the most of those plate appearances, walking 8 times in 34 PAs and making 3 of his 5 hits for extra bases. Lopez currently sports a .909 OPS but Villar is above both at 1.055. This could be his last chance to make the team and could possibly do so with Davis gone.

I left Soler out of this equation! Geez! That means that the group of VIllar, Lopez, Fitzgerald, Sabol, Matos and Pinder are all after the last roster spot.

 

[tzill]

For position players, here is how I see it as of this morning:
Locks - Patrick Bailey (assuming he heals quickly from the hand issue), Tom Murphy, Matt Chapman, Thairo Estrada, Wilmer Flores, Lamonte Wade, Michael Conforto, Jung Hoo Lee (assuming he also gets healthy quickly), Austin Slater (another possible injury concern), Mike Yastrzemski
Leading Candidates - Nick Ahmed, David Villar, Otto Lopez, Tyler Fitzgerald, Blake Sabol, Luis Matos, Chase Pinder
Others in camp - Joey Bart, Casey Schmitt, Ismael Munguia, Grant McCray, Pablo Sandoval, Marco Luciano, Jackson Reetz, Adrian Sugastay

Again, leading with guys less likely to make the team - Bart is hitting well but still unlikely to make the team, unless Murphy plays out to a worst case scenario and isn't ready by opening day. Even then, Bart's time is limited. Schmitt and Luciano have both hit poorly and have probably earned demotions to AAA to start the year. Munguia, on the other hand, has hit well but will likely only make the team if both Sabol and Slater aren't healthy enough to start the season. Reetz is only around to provide help at catcher. Sugastay and McCray are still technically in camp but hardly played. Sandoval has struck out in 10 of 15 at-bats. He looks done.
Ahmed looks like he's earned the starting shortstop nod. He is defensively better than Luciano and has hit much better. Of course, it is spring training and Ahmed's career numbers suggest that this spring is an aberration. He will keep the spot warm for other guys. Assuming he makes it and the 10 locks are all healthy enough to be on the opening day roster, there is a battle over the last 2 bench spots. Matos has, by far, hit the best among the 6 guys competing for these two spots. But I only envisioning him making the team if Sabol isn't healthy enough to avoid the IL. Otherwise, I think the Giants go with him for one of those spots, despite his tepid .182/.308/.182 line in 9 games. That also eliminates Chad Pinder from the team as well, even though he has also hit well in camp. That leaves Villar, Lopez and Fitzgerald battling it out for the last roster spot. Fitzgerald has the worst spring numbers of the 3, hitting only .192 but making the most of those plate appearances, walking 8 times in 34 PAs and making 3 of his 5 hits for extra bases. Lopez currently sports a .909 OPS but Villar is above both at 1.055. This could be his last chance to make the team and could possibly do so with Davis gone.

David Villar may not have a clear role with the organization at this point, but he is having a good Cactus League. He has 3 hits, including his 3rd homer of the spring, in 4 at-bats with 3 RBI yesterday

 

[tzill]

Baggs today:

C -- Bales, Murph
IF -- LWJ, Tyro, Ahmed, Chappy, Flowers, Fitz
OF -- Lee, Yaz, Slater, Forto
DH -- Soler
SP -- Spider, Harry, Hicks, Winn, Black
RP -- Doval, Taylor, Tyler, Jax, Walker, Jefferies, Garrett, Roupp

He makes this point:

Luis Matos continues to force the issue. Matos entered Saturday with a 1.113 OPS that ranked fourth among all big leaguers in the exhibition season. Nobody this spring has more extra-base hits (five doubles, three home runs). Assuming the Giants cannot find a taker for Conforto and most of his $18 million salary, they’ll begin the year hoping he can have a bounce-back season as he seeks a platform to free agency.

I'd really like to see them move Forto for a small return, even if they have to eat half that salary. I think Matos is ready.

 

[filosofy29]

Baggs today:

C -- Bales, Murph
IF -- LWJ, Tyro, Ahmed, Chappy, Flowers, Fitz
OF -- Lee, Yaz, Slater, Forto
DH -- Soler
SP -- Spider, Harry, Hicks, Winn, Black
RP -- Doval, Taylor, Tyler, Jax, Walker, Jefferies, Garrett, Roupp

He makes this point:

Luis Matos continues to force the issue. Matos entered Saturday with a 1.113 OPS that ranked fourth among all big leaguers in the exhibition season. Nobody this spring has more extra-base hits (five doubles, three home runs). Assuming the Giants cannot find a taker for Conforto and most of his $18 million salary, they’ll begin the year hoping he can have a bounce-back season as he seeks a platform to free agency.

I'd really like to see them move Forto for a small return, even if they have to eat half that salary. I think Matos is ready.

I agree. Plus Matos could be the future, Conforto is not. Even if Matos fails, it’s a better gamble. Plus I’d rather ride his wave now while his confidence is highest. Not send him down and risk confidence or rhythm. Problem is, I think this is another JD Davis situation…

 

[LHG]

Baggs today:

C -- Bales, Murph
IF -- LWJ, Tyro, Ahmed, Chappy, Flowers, Fitz
OF -- Lee, Yaz, Slater, Forto
DH -- Soler
SP -- Spider, Harry, Hicks, Winn, Black
RP -- Doval, Taylor, Tyler, Jax, Walker, Jefferies, Garrett, Roupp

He makes this point:

Luis Matos continues to force the issue. Matos entered Saturday with a 1.113 OPS that ranked fourth among all big leaguers in the exhibition season. Nobody this spring has more extra-base hits (five doubles, three home runs). Assuming the Giants cannot find a taker for Conforto and most of his $18 million salary, they’ll begin the year hoping he can have a bounce-back season as he seeks a platform to free agency.

I'd really like to see them move Forto for a small return, even if they have to eat half that salary. I think Matos is ready.

I do wonder if the Giants could package Conforto with Villar and Bart for someone to either start to pitch in the bullpen. Of course, I'm not sure how many teams would want that combination of players. Those may need to be separate trades.

Does Baggs explain why he thinks Garrett makes the team? Is that purely based on the fact he has major league experience? And why Roupp? He seems better poised to start in AA than pitch relief at the big league level.