2023 Rosterbation

[calsnowskier]

The only reference I could find to what Cohen actually said is this, from MLBTR:

Mets owner Steve Cohen has already addressed the deal, telling Heyman earlier this week that “we needed one more thing, and this is it”. That’s particularly significant as, per The Athletic’s report, addressing the deal on the record could make it trickier to back out of the agreement, although there’s nothing to suggest that’s what the Mets are looking to do.​

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Mets Have "Raised Concerns" Over Carlos Correa's Physical

Carlos Correa's physical with the Mets has "raised concerns", according to a report from Ken Rosenthal and Dan Hayes of …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

​

Now, I'm no attorney, and I don't know what the MLB/CBA rules are concerning this, but I have trouble seeing how this rises to the level to where the Mets are obligated to comply with the 12/315 agreement. But that is just my own ignorant opinion.

Tbh, I don’t know either. I am basically just parroting what I have heard said in many places.

 

[LHG]

The only reference I could find to what Cohen actually said is this, from MLBTR:

Mets owner Steve Cohen has already addressed the deal, telling Heyman earlier this week that “we needed one more thing, and this is it”. That’s particularly significant as, per The Athletic’s report, addressing the deal on the record could make it trickier to back out of the agreement, although there’s nothing to suggest that’s what the Mets are looking to do.​

​

Mets Have "Raised Concerns" Over Carlos Correa's Physical

Carlos Correa's physical with the Mets has "raised concerns", according to a report from Ken Rosenthal and Dan Hayes of …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

​

Now, I'm no attorney, and I don't know what the MLB/CBA rules are concerning this, but I have trouble seeing how this rises to the level to where the Mets are obligated to comply with the 12/315 agreement. But that is just my own ignorant opinion.

The article has an update, via ESPN:
"According to Jesse Rogers of ESPN, a deal with the Mets is still “likely”, although he reports that the contract could be reworked considering the issue. While it’s not known what a reworked contract would look like, it could include altering the duration or financial guarantee of the contract, or rewording it to alter the amount of guaranteed money Correa makes should he miss a period of time due to the specific leg ailment which is causing concern. Rogers adds that there is not a timetable in place to resolve the matter."

 

[tzill]

Yeah, not sure I understand this one and for that much. It's not MY money...

Peripheral numbers for him are elite. He’s a stud late inning guy. To recap giants I spoke into existence:
Hanigar
Conforto
Manaea
Pederson
Stripling

i whiffed on Bassitt and Correa

 

[tzill]

My only concern with acquiring Devers would be that we would need to pay a kings ransom for what is, in reality, a rental. He is a full FA after ’23. And he will demand a 10+ year contract in the 300m neighborhood to keep. So what value would actually be gained by emptying the farm for him?

A bit of hyperbole here. He’s not getting elite future HOF money. And FZ [or whoever replaces him after he’s fired] isn’t giving up the farm for a rental. The FO just pulled the plug on Correa — you really think they’d risk Devers walking?

 

[tzill]

OK, just floating a test out here for fun and discussion. Please feel free to critique and improve.

What if Boston signed Devers to a 10/275, then traded him to us for Yaz, Doval, and a top-shelf prospect?

Don’t see Devers getting that kind of money. I’d pass

 

[tzill]

Well, you and I don't know, but the Giants' FO now has a pretty decent idea. He's probably worth more than the $237K from that hilarious tweet from above. Perhaps we could counter-offer at a level at which risk and reward are in equilibrium.

And let's give thanks and props to our FO for, 1) doing their due diligence, and 2) keeping their mouths appropriately shut about their findings.

None of that explains why Boras was negotiating directly with Johnson and not the FO. That’s the $350M question

 

[tzill]

Tbh, I don’t know either. I am basically just parroting what I have heard said in many places.

Fwiw, as a lawyer, I don’t see how this obligates the Mets. Further, those contracts are always contingent on physicals…as we just found out.

 

[Mays-Fan]

None of that explains why Boras was negotiating directly with Johnson and not the FO. That’s the $350M question

LOL. Far be it from the owner to nanomanage his business (/s). Rules and protocols and procedures and chains of command and org charts mean absolutely nothing to the guy who ultimately make the decisions. If they don't like the laws they buy the politicians and judges they need to, or enough lawyers and media to make the opposition's case unwinnable. Owners do whatever they want anytime they want whenever they want to whomever they want for any reason they want or for no reason at all.

There's the answer to your $350mm question. I thought you would have known this being an attorney.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Baseballer on Instagram: "FACTS (via: @kingjosiah54)"

36K likes, 322 comments - thebsblr on December 21, 2022: "FACTS (via: @kingjosiah54)".

www.instagram.com

 

[pachyderm]

The article has an update, via ESPN:
"According to Jesse Rogers of ESPN, a deal with the Mets is still “likely”, although he reports that the contract could be reworked considering the issue. While it’s not known what a reworked contract would look like, it could include altering the duration or financial guarantee of the contract, or rewording it to alter the amount of guaranteed money Correa makes should he miss a period of time due to the specific leg ailment which is causing concern. Rogers adds that there is not a timetable in place to resolve the matter."

Carlos Correa's free-agency saga: Everything you need to know

How did Carlos Correa go from a deal with the Giants, to a deal with the Mets, to two teams having concerns after his physical?

theathletic.com

So are we back in the hunt...? Do we want to be?

 

[LHG]

Carlos Correa's free-agency saga: Everything you need to know

How did Carlos Correa go from a deal with the Giants, to a deal with the Mets, to two teams having concerns after his physical?

theathletic.com

So are we back in the hunt...? Do we want to be?

I'm not sure we are in the hunt. I know some teams have inquired. I get the feeling the Giants have not. I'm not a subscriber to the Atlantic, so I don't know what is stated there.
And I'm not so sure we would want to be in the hunt, unless the deal is less than 10 years total.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I'm not sure we are in the hunt. I know some teams have inquired. I get the feeling the Giants have not. I'm not a subscriber to the Atlantic, so I don't know what is stated there.
And I'm not so sure we would want to be in the hunt, unless the deal is less than 10 years total.

IMHO, we don't want to be in a player auction against Cohen and the Mets. Although I'd love to be a fly on the wall if the Mets don't win the WC when Cohen has to write that luxury tax check for $110mm.

 

[pachyderm]

I'm not sure we are in the hunt. I know some teams have inquired. I get the feeling the Giants have not. I'm not a subscriber to the Atlantic, so I don't know what is stated there.
And I'm not so sure we would want to be in the hunt, unless the deal is less than 10 years total.

Sorry the article opened for me but I'm not a subscriber either...

An espn article would have been preferred for me...

 

[Mays-Fan]

I'm not sure we are in the hunt. I know some teams have inquired. I get the feeling the Giants have not. I'm not a subscriber to the Atlantic, so I don't know what is stated there.
And I'm not so sure we would want to be in the hunt, unless the deal is less than 10 years total.

I could see us making a deliberate second-place offer to drive up the Mets price and keep them honest. Maybe 5/125 or even 6/150. Obviously, to us he was not worth 13/350, but he's worth more than zero, somewhere in that range (lol). All depends on the potential severity of the alleged medical issue, and how much risk the FO is willing to take.

 

[calsnowskier]

I could see us making a deliberate second-place offer to drive up the Mets price and keep them honest. Maybe 5/125 or even 6/150. Obviously, to us he was not worth 13/350, but he's worth more than zero, somewhere in that range (lol). All depends on the potential severity of the alleged medical issue, and how much risk the FO is willing to take.

I suspect that on a 5 year deal, his aav could still rival his earlier deals with us and the Muts. Probably even exceed the aav. But if he wants the years, the aav has to go down.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I suspect that on a 5 year deal, his aav could still rival his earlier deals with us and the Muts. Probably even exceed the aav. But if he wants the years, the aav has to go down.

Our 13/350 = $26.92mm AAV

Mets 12/315 = $26.25mm AAV

6/150 or 5/125 = $25.0mm AAV

 

[Mays-Fan]

Just wondering. If the Mets reject Correa for presumably the same medical issue as the Giants, will Boras sue everyone in sight for collusion and breach of medical confidentiality?

 

[LHG]

One of the areas that the Giants were rumored to be considering an upgrade was Joey Bart's backup (although some rumblings suggested making Bart the backup and AAA replacement fodder). We all know about Austin Wynns, average catcher (0.2 dWAR from BBRef generally lines up with perceived defensive abilities) with a below average bat (his .671 OPS and 90 OPS+ in 2022 are career highs, across 4 big league seasons. He is also 32). However, catchers have been flying off the free agent market. Here is a look at the 9 remaining free agent catchers (ranked youngest to oldest):
1. Luis Torrens (26) - Once a prospect of note with the Padres, Torrens looked like he had a future in Seattle when he posted a .730 OPS (102 OPS+) in his first taste of a full season in the big leagues in 2021. However, that was tempered a -0.3 dWAR. So when his offense cratered in 2022 (71 OPS+) and his defense didn't get much better than league average (0.2 dWAR) he dropped in the Mariners' depth charts and got non-tendered. He is young and could bounce back offensively but may not be a good compliment to Bart. His 2022 season was worse than Wynns.
2. Dom Nunez (29) - Name sound familiar? The Giants claimed him off waivers on November 9th before designating him for assignment on November 17th. They could have kept him in the organization but opted to nontender him the next day, effectively releasing him and making him a free agent. Nunez, who spent all his time in the Rockies' organization until then, showed some hitting prowess in AAA in 2019, slashing .244/.362/.559 in 61 games. However, his hitting hasn't been nearly as good in the minors or major leagues (including a .653 OPS in 347 PAs across 3 big league seasons) and his dWAR in 2021, where he played 81 games with Colorado, was -0.3
3. Brian O'Keefe (29) - Another nontender (a theme thus far), O'Keefe has only played in 2 games in the big leagues, both with Seattle in 2022 (who nontendered him along with Torrens). He's had a few decent offensive seasons in the minor leagues but moved very slowly up the Cardinals chain before getting picked by the Mariners in the minor league phase of the 2019 Rule 5 Draft. I don't know much about his defensive prowess but his CS percentage has gone down as he's moved up the minor leagues.
4. Jorge Alfaro (29) - A former top prospect with the Phillies, Alfaro never really established his offensive credentials as a big league threat, only posting one season with an OPS+ over 100 (127 in 2017). It has fallen every year since, but did post a 94 in 2022 after a couple of years in the high 60s. The Padres did play him mostly at catcher in 2022 and he posted his first positive dWAR (0.2) in 3 years. His 2022 numbers are very similar to Wynns. Oh, I should mention he was also nontendered this offseason.
5. Gary Sanchez (30) - Look, a free agent who wasn't nontendered this offseason! Sanchez is another former top prospect. His hitting has been getting worse in the past few years, culminating with an 89 OPS+ in 2022 (tied for 2nd worst in his career). His 2022 dWAR was also 0.2 and saw some time at DH with the Twins.
6. Kevin Plawecki (32) - Man, another nontender! (edit: He was not nontendered). Plawecki is another former top prospect who could never hit very well in the big leagues. However, he was once a good defensive catcher (posting a 0.7 dWAR in 2018) but saw his dWAR dip into the negatives for the 1st time in 2021 (-0.2 and get worse in 2022 (-0.6).
7. Roberto Perez (34) - It seems that every few years, Perez' hitting is about league average (OPS+ of 101 in 2015, 99 in 2019 and 98 in 2022). However, those are tempered with most other seasons closer to an OPS+ of 54 or worse (2016, 2018, 2020 and 2021). However, his defense, at times, has been elite. He won Gold Gloves in 2019 (2.7 dWAR) and 2020 (0.6 in the shortened season). It has slipped closer to average since then (0.2 and 0.4 the past two seasons). It should be noted that both his OPS+ and dWAR in 2022 were slightly better than Wynn's.
8. Sandy Leon (34) - Never known as an offensive catcher, Leon came out of nowhere to post an OPS+ of 122 in 2016 with the Red Sox. That helped cement his status as at least a regular catcher for a couple of years. However, his OPS+ hasn't topped 68 in a season since (which was 2017) and was 51 in 2022. His dWAR was -0.2 last year, the first time in his career it has been negative. It was between 0.9 and 1.3 in the period between 2015 and 2018 and was 0.5 in 2021. The trade off, though, in hitting, may make him less valuable than Wynns but he could prove to be a capable backup to Bart (if Bart can hit).
9. Robinson Chirinos (38) - The venerable catcher of the group, it is unknown if Chirinos even wants to play in 2022. He's probably been the most consistent hitter of this entire group, posting an OPS+ of 100 or greater in 5 different seasons (2015-2017, 2019 and 2021) and barely missed in another 2 seasons (95 in 2014 and 99 in 2018). His defense has been pretty good by dWAR as well, posting over 1.0 twice (2014 and 2019) and over 0.5 2 other seasons (2015 and 2017). Even in 2022, he posted a 0.5 dWAR as a backup in Baltimore. He would make the most sense among this group but he may not really be available.

So, what do you all say? Keep Wynns or gamble with one of these guys? If so, who should it be?

 

[Mays-Fan]

One of the areas that the Giants were rumored to be considering an upgrade was Joey Bart's backup (although some rumblings suggested making Bart the backup and AAA replacement fodder). We all know about Austin Wynns, average catcher (0.2 dWAR from BBRef generally lines up with perceived defensive abilities) with a below average bat (his .671 OPS and 90 OPS+ in 2022 are career highs, across 4 big league seasons. He is also 32). However, catchers have been flying off the free agent market. Here is a look at the 9 remaining free agent catchers (ranked youngest to oldest):
1. Luis Torrens (26) - Once a prospect of note with the Padres, Torrens looked like he had a future in Seattle when he posted a .730 OPS (102 OPS+) in his first taste of a full season in the big leagues in 2021. However, that was tempered a -0.3 dWAR. So when his offense cratered in 2022 (71 OPS+) and his defense didn't get much better than league average (0.2 dWAR) he dropped in the Mariners' depth charts and got non-tendered. He is young and could bounce back offensively but may not be a good compliment to Bart. His 2022 season was worse than Wynns.
2. Dom Nunez (29) - Name sound familiar? The Giants claimed him off waivers on November 9th before designating him for assignment on November 17th. They could have kept him in the organization but opted to nontender him the next day, effectively releasing him and making him a free agent. Nunez, who spent all his time in the Rockies' organization until then, showed some hitting prowess in AAA in 2019, slashing .244/.362/.559 in 61 games. However, his hitting hasn't been nearly as good in the minors or major leagues (including a .653 OPS in 347 PAs across 3 big league seasons) and his dWAR in 2021, where he played 81 games with Colorado, was -0.3
3. Brian O'Keefe (29) - Another nontender (a theme thus far), O'Keefe has only played in 2 games in the big leagues, both with Seattle in 2022 (who nontendered him along with Torrens). He's had a few decent offensive seasons in the minor leagues but moved very slowly up the Cardinals chain before getting picked by the Mariners in the minor league phase of the 2019 Rule 5 Draft. I don't know much about his defensive prowess but his CS percentage has gone down as he's moved up the minor leagues.
4. Jorge Alfaro (29) - A former top prospect with the Phillies, Alfaro never really established his offensive credentials as a big league threat, only posting one season with an OPS+ over 100 (127 in 2017). It has fallen every year since, but did post a 94 in 2022 after a couple of years in the high 60s. The Padres did play him mostly at catcher in 2022 and he posted his first positive dWAR (0.2) in 3 years. His 2022 numbers are very similar to Wynns. Oh, I should mention he was also nontendered this offseason.
5. Gary Sanchez (30) - Look, a free agent who wasn't nontendered this offseason! Sanchez is another former top prospect. His hitting has been getting worse in the past few years, culminating with an 89 OPS+ in 2022 (tied for 2nd worst in his career). His 2022 dWAR was also 0.2 and saw some time at DH with the Twins.
6. Kevin Plawecki (32) - Man, another nontender! (edit: He was not nontendered). Plawecki is another former top prospect who could never hit very well in the big leagues. However, he was once a good defensive catcher (posting a 0.7 dWAR in 2018) but saw his dWAR dip into the negatives for the 1st time in 2021 (-0.2 and get worse in 2022 (-0.6).
7. Roberto Perez (34) - It seems that every few years, Perez' hitting is about league average (OPS+ of 101 in 2015, 99 in 2019 and 98 in 2022). However, those are tempered with most other seasons closer to an OPS+ of 54 or worse (2016, 2018, 2020 and 2021). However, his defense, at times, has been elite. He won Gold Gloves in 2019 (2.7 dWAR) and 2020 (0.6 in the shortened season). It has slipped closer to average since then (0.2 and 0.4 the past two seasons). It should be noted that both his OPS+ and dWAR in 2022 were slightly better than Wynn's.
8. Sandy Leon (34) - Never known as an offensive catcher, Leon came out of nowhere to post an OPS+ of 122 in 2016 with the Red Sox. That helped cement his status as at least a regular catcher for a couple of years. However, his OPS+ hasn't topped 68 in a season since (which was 2017) and was 51 in 2022. His dWAR was -0.2 last year, the first time in his career it has been negative. It was between 0.9 and 1.3 in the period between 2015 and 2018 and was 0.5 in 2021. The trade off, though, in hitting, may make him less valuable than Wynns but he could prove to be a capable backup to Bart (if Bart can hit).
9. Robinson Chirinos (38) - The venerable catcher of the group, it is unknown if Chirinos even wants to play in 2022. He's probably been the most consistent hitter of this entire group, posting an OPS+ of 100 or greater in 5 different seasons (2015-2017, 2019 and 2021) and barely missed in another 2 seasons (95 in 2014 and 99 in 2018). His defense has been pretty good by dWAR as well, posting over 1.0 twice (2014 and 2019) and over 0.5 2 other seasons (2015 and 2017). Even in 2022, he posted a 0.5 dWAR as a backup in Baltimore. He would make the most sense among this group but he may not really be available.

So, what do you all say? Keep Wynns or gamble with one of these guys? If so, who should it be?

Given the Giants lack of activity so far re the catcher spot, it would appear they are "all in" on Bartelstein, and satisfied with Wynns.

There don't appear to be any needle movers left, and they can pick one up later on as needed.

I still wonder, if they make a run could they talk Posey out of retirement for half a season?

 

[Mays-Fan]

It won't be for 2023, but keep an eye on this guy:

Patrick Bailey Amateur, College, Fall & Minor Leagues Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

Patrick Bailey Amateur, College, Fall & Minor Leagues Statistics including batting, fielding, prospect rankings and more on Baseball-Reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

He's only 24 by Opening Day, hit to a .979 in college (NC State), and .761 last year in Norwalk (A+ level).

The rest of our minors look pretty thin at catcher:

2022 San Francisco Giants Minor League Affiliates | Baseball-Reference.com

Every Affiliates Statistics and the Stats for Every Player in the 2022 San Francisco Giants Farm System

www.baseball-reference.com

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(Scroll down to Organizational Batting and sort on 'Pos Summary', then scroll down to the catchers)​