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2023 Rosterbation

Mays-Fan

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I BELIEVE (could be completely wrong) that in baseball, newly signed players cannot be traded for 6 months.
Yeah, I tried to do some research on the subject, and there seems to be all kinds of legal qualifiers and restrictions on trades. Far above my paygrade for me to provide a definitive answer.


Restrictions on Trading Players​

Restrictions on Trading Players​
Technically, a baseball trade is called a Trade Assignment (similar in kind to an Optional Assignment or Outright Assignment).

Generally, an MLB club can trade a player on its MLB Reserve List (40-man roster) and minor league reserve lists at any time. However, there are a few restrictions:

1. A trade involving a player signed to an MLB contract (including any player on an MLB Reserve List, MLB 60-day Injured List, or MLB Restricted List, and/or any player who was outrighted to the minors after signing an MLB contract for that season) is prohibited beginning at 4 PM (Eastern) on July 31st (or 4 PM Eastern on Friday July 30th if July 31st falls on a Saturday, or 4 PM Eastern on Monday August 1st if July 31st falls on a Sunday) and extending until the day after the final game of the World Series.
NOTE-1: Beginning with the 2022 season, the MLB Commissioner has the authority to establish the MLB Trade Deadline on any day over the seven-day period July 28 - August 3. However, the MLB Trade Deadline cannot be on the same day as the MLB Rule 4 Draft (First Year Player Draft) signing deadline.
NOTE-2: Trade Assignment Waivers (which permitted the trading of players on MLB reserve lists after the July 31st deadline up until 12 PM Eastern on the 7th day prior to the originally-scheduled conclusion of the MLB regular season) were eliminated starting with the 2019 season.

PLAYERS OUTRIGHTED TO MINORS AFTER SIGNING 2023 MLB CONTRACT: (updated 10-15-2022)
NONE AT THIS TIME

2. A trade involving a player on a minor league reserve list who is not an outrighted player is prohibited beginning at 12 PM (Eastern) on the 7th day prior to the originally-scheduled conclusion of the MLB regular season through the last day of the MLB regular season (including a day on which a regular season game is played after the originally-scheduled conclusion of the MLB regular season).

3. A player who signs after being selected in the MLB Rule 4 Draft (First-Year Player Draft) cannot be traded until after the conclusion of the World Series (no earlier than 9 AM on the day after the final game of the World Series), or for 90 days if the player signs after the World Series.

4. A minor league player eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft cannot be added to an MLB Reserve List (40-man roster), traded to another organization, or transferred from one minor league reserve list to another within the same organization, beginning with the filing of MLB & minor league reserve lists in November and extending through the completion of the Rule 5 Draft.

5. A player cannot be traded while he is on waivers.

6. A player on an MLB Reserve List (40-man roster) who has a contractual "no trade" right can waive this right if he so chooses.

PLAYERS ON CUBS MLB RESERVE LIST WITH CONTRACTUAL "NO-TRADE" RIGHT: (updated 12-21-2021)
Seiya Suzuki, OF
Dansby Swanson, INF

7. A player on an MLB Reserve List (40-man roster) who has accrued at least ten years of MLB Service Time with at least the last five years of MLB Service Time accrued with the same club (a so-called "10/5" player) has an automatic "no trade" right for as long as he remains with that club. The player can waive this right if he so chooses.

"10/5" PLAYERS ON CUBS MLB RESERVE LIST: (updated 11-14-2022)
NONE AT THIS TIME

8. An Article XX-B MLB free-agent who signs a Major League contract after 11:59 PM (Eastern) on the 5th day after the final game of the World Series has an automatic "no trade" right through June 15th. The player can waive this right, but if he does he can be traded only for cash and/or player contracts with a maximum aggregate value of $50,000. N
NOTE: An Article XX-B MLB free-agent who signs a minor league contract after 11:59 PM (Eastern) on the 5th day after the final game of the World Series does NOT receive an automatic "no trade" right, even if the player is later added to the club's MLB Reserve List (40-man roster).

POST-2022 ARTICLE XX-B MLB PLAYERS ON CUBS MLB RESERVE LIST: (updated 12-21-2022)
Brad Boxberger, RHP
Dansby Swanson, UNF
Jameson Taillon, RHP

9. If a "Player to Be Named Later" (PTBNL) is part of a trade, the PTBNL cannot be on an MLB Active List at any time beginning when the trade is executed (filed with the MLB office) up until when the trade is completed. A PTBNL can be either a specific player or the PTBNL can be selected from a list of players or a class of players as determined by the clubs (in writing) when the trade is executed.
NOTE: A player signed after being selected in the MLB Rule 4 Draft (First-Year Player Draft) cannot be a PTBNL in any trade made prior to the conclusion of the World Series. Clubs have six months to agree on a PTBNL, but the clubs can agree (when the trade is executed) on a deadline that is less than six months. A cash payment (typically $50,000 for trades involving players on the 40-man roster) can be substituted for a PTBNL if no agreement can be reached within six months, but the alternative cash payment must be agreeable to both clubs and stated in writing when the trade is executed.

10. A player on an MLB or minor league injured list can be traded, even if the player is not eligible to be reinstated and/or healthy enough to play.
NOTE: As far as a player having to spend a certain number of days on an IL before he is eligible to be reinstated is concerned, in the case of a trade, time already spent on an injured list is carried-over to the player's new club.

11. If a player is acquired in a trade and is optioned to the minors by his new club within 24 hours, the player can be recalled from the Optional Assignment at any time without restriction (so that the "ten-day rule" for position players and the "15-day rule" for pitchers & two-way players as it pertains to the minimum number of days a player must spend on optional assignment before he can be recalled would not apply).​
Arizona Phil Sun, 09/02/2012 - 09:19 am​
 

calsnowskier

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Updated for Conforto and Rogers…

—————————

Alex Cobb (R)
Anthony Desclafani (R)
Sean Manaea (L)
Ross Stripling (R)
Logan Webb (R) (1) (A1)

Scott Alexander (L)
John Brebbia (R) (1) (A3)
Camilo Doval (R) (2)
Jakob Junis (R) (A3)
Taylor Rogers (L)
Tyler Rogers (R) (3) (A1)
Thomas Szapucki (L) *
Alex Wood (L)

Joey Bart (1)
Austin Wynns (A1)

Brandon Crawford
Thairo Estrada (A1)
JD Davis (2) (A3)
Wilmer Flores
Tommy La Stella
Blake Sabol (R5) (3) *
David Villar (2)

Michael Conforto
Mitch Haniger
Austin Slater (1) (A3)
LaMonte Wade Jr (A1)
Mike Yastrzemski (3)

Joc Pederson

Minors

Tristan Beck (R) (3) *
Jose Cruz (R) (3) *
Sean Hjelle (R) (2) *
Sammy Long (L) (1)
Yunior Marte (R) (2) *
Randy Rodriguez (R) (2) *
Cole Waites (R) (2) *
Keaton Winn (R) (3) *

Issan Diaz (1)
Marco Luciano (3) *
Brett Wisely (3) *

Luis Gonzalez (1)
Luis Matos (3) *
Heliot Ramos (2) *

—————————

Roster Cuts (2 40 spots needed immediately to account for Rogers and Conforto and 2 26 spots to for later)

Immediate 40 casualties

Long
Gonzalez
(This SHOULD be La Stella and Marte, but…)

I think the 26 casualties will depend on injuries, of course, but assuming perfect health, La Stella and Wade would have to be the cuts. Maybe Junis. Maybe Wynns, if Sabol is an actual catcher.
 

jeep99tj

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Then again, maybe Correa will spend a bulk of the season on the IR and Villar will establish himself as a stud. Or Schmitt will graduate and win

FZ hopes so.
 

filosofy29

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filo, their responses explain my concerns. Wood and Yaz for Devers? Yes! Luciano, Schmitt and/or Matos for possibly one year of Devers? No!
I understand that, I’m thinking of somewhere in between Yaz/wood and giving up the farm. Unless they learn from Devers camp that he hates SF, I don’t see a way they let him walk. And I’d rather take that risk on him than Correa.

Why do a full tear down when you have money? You guys say with one side of your mouth you don’t want to become the As of Rays, but then want to become the A’s or Rays.
 

filosofy29

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Sorry that sounded harsh, I didn’t intend for that. More posing a question.
 

calsnowskier

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I understand that, I’m thinking of somewhere in between Yaz/wood and giving up the farm. Unless they learn from Devers camp that he hates SF, I don’t see a way they let him walk. And I’d rather take that risk on him than Correa.

Why do a full tear down when you have money? You guys say with one side of your mouth you don’t want to become the As of Rays, but then want to become the A’s or Rays.
The prob is that they haven’t developed anyone GOOD outside of Webb and maybe Doval since… Crawford? Panic was good, but ultimately a flash. Bart is possible, but still serious questions. Reynolds and Duvall are horror stories, but I am actually more apt to forgive those (I think Duvall is super over-rated and Reynolds is just unfortunate).

The dogs were in a similar situation a number of years back, but they almost immediately turned their farm into the class of the sport. They used their money in a smart way, buying bad contracts in order to build farm depth (Price, Gonzalez, etc). I see the Giants not spending money while sifting through the neighbors trash and then sending Kruk out there to gush about how great said trash smells. They are making OK PR moves (the last month not withstanding) in order to fill the seats, but NOT making the corresponding good baseball moves to make this time worth it with a payoff down the road.

When I complain about being the A’s or Rays, it is because they are trying to win on the super cheap. They are throwing the fact that we are rooting for laundry in our faces. I acknowledge that I am a fan of a shirt. But I don’t need to be constantly reminded of that fact. I want to fool myself into THINKING that I am rooting for players who are representing an area. An area that dispite the fact I have not lived in for over 30 years, is still my home. But by having a constant rotating roster of nobody’s, has beens and never will bes, I am forced to acknowledge that I am rooting for a corporate entity that is banking on my illogical love of…. A shirt.
 

filosofy29

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The prob is that they haven’t developed anyone GOOD outside of Webb and maybe Doval since… Crawford? Panic was good, but ultimately a flash. Bart is possible, but still serious questions. Reynolds and Duvall are horror stories, but I am actually more apt to forgive those (I think Duvall is super over-rated and Reynolds is just unfortunate).

The dogs were in a similar situation a number of years back, but they almost immediately turned their farm into the class of the sport. They used their money in a smart way, buying bad contracts in order to build farm depth (Price, Gonzalez, etc). I see the Giants not spending money while sifting through the neighbors trash and then sending Kruk out there to gush about how great said trash smells. They are making OK PR moves (the last month not withstanding) in order to fill the seats, but NOT making the corresponding good baseball moves to make this time worth it with a payoff down the road.

When I complain about being the A’s or Rays, it is because they are trying to win on the super cheap. They are throwing the fact that we are rooting for laundry in our faces. I acknowledge that I am a fan of a shirt. But I don’t need to be constantly reminded of that fact. I want to fool myself into THINKING that I am rooting for players who are representing an area. An area that dispite the fact I have not lived in for over 30 years, is still my home. But by having a constant rotating roster of nobody’s, has been sane never will bes, I am forced to acknowledge that I am rooting for a corporate entity that is banking on my illogical love of…. A shirt.
I agree with all of that and wouldn’t part with a Luciano/Matos unless he had agreed to signing an extension with the Giants prior to the trade. I just think championships can be built in different ways (as I’m sure most do). I love Logan Webb because he’s homegrown. But if we are saying no to Devers because he won’t be a contributor 5 years down the road, are we trading Webb too? Because Webb may out-produce Devers in 3 years or even 5 years, entirely plausible, but not the way I’d bet. And might as well trade Doval because how long are closers dominant?

I respect the hell out of the Astros and Rays for how they do it, I just don’t want to follow their recipe for success. They do it because they have no money. That’s not a problem here imhumbleo.
 

filosofy29

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I also love how I haven’t seen a peep of Conforto or Rogers from anything Giants (team, not affiliations) yet. Lol maybe learning from a bit so past mistake.
 

calsnowskier

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I also love how I haven’t seen a peep of Conforto or Rogers from anything Giants (team, not affiliations) yet. Lol maybe learning from a bit so past mistake.
The GIANTS never commented on Correa. The story broke, and some employees (K&K) did interviews about him, but I don’t think FZ or anyone else made any official statements.

Cohen, on the other hand, has potentially screwed over the Mets by speaking publicly about a signing that isn’t official yet.
 

filosofy29

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The GIANTS never commented on Correa. The story broke, and some employees (K&K) did interviews about him, but I don’t think FZ or anyone else made any official statements.

Cohen, on the other hand, has potentially screwed over the Mets by speaking publicly about a signing that isn’t official yet.
I thought I saw a tweet by sf giants official on Correa but maybe it was one of the ones I follow that looks like them.
 

LHG

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I agree with all of that and wouldn’t part with a Luciano/Matos unless he had agreed to signing an extension with the Giants prior to the trade. I just think championships can be built in different ways (as I’m sure most do). I love Logan Webb because he’s homegrown. But if we are saying no to Devers because he won’t be a contributor 5 years down the road, are we trading Webb too? Because Webb may out-produce Devers in 3 years or even 5 years, entirely plausible, but not the way I’d bet. And might as well trade Doval because how long are closers dominant?

I respect the hell out of the Astros and Rays for how they do it, I just don’t want to follow their recipe for success. They do it because they have no money. That’s not a problem here imhumbleo.
I'm saying no to Devers if the team doesn't have him locked up past 2023. Trading the farm for a one year rental, just to say we have an exciting player but not locked down for when the team could legitimately compete seems stupid and short sighted. I'm more likely to be okay with it if he is acquired just after being locked in for at least 4 years. Still, its hard to see studs get traded away, acknowledging the fact that prospects, much like any other player acquisition, is a gamble.
 

Mays-Fan

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Gotta love it.

Which raises the question, if the Mets reject him, obviously his value goes down significantly.

But how low? His value is not zero. Say, 4/100 low? At some point, he is worth the risk, right? Just throwing that out there.

I'm also assuming that the Mets' big mouth owner, Steve Cohen, is not forced to legally honor the 12/315 they offered. Could be a big if.
 
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calsnowskier

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calsnowskier

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Gotta love it.

Which raises the question, if the Mets reject him, obviously his value goes down significantly.

But how low? His value is not zero. Say, 4/100 low? At some point, he is worth the risk, right? Just throwing that out there.

I'm also assuming that the Mets' big mouth owner, Steve Cohen, is not forced to legally honor the 12/315 they offered. Could be a big if.
We can’t even speculate at what he could make because we don’t know what those concerns are. Is it something that looks like it will just effect his play, but can be mitigated by rest or rehab? Or is it a red button that could end his career in 3 years, no matter what steps are taken? We just don’t know.
 

Mays-Fan

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We can’t even speculate at what he could make because we don’t know what those concerns are. Is it something that looks like it will just effect his play, but can be mitigated by rest or rehab? Or is it a red button that could end his career in 3 years, no matter what steps are taken? We just don’t know.
Well, you and I don't know, but the Giants' FO now has a pretty decent idea. He's probably worth more than the $237K from that hilarious tweet from above. Perhaps we could counter-offer at a level at which risk and reward are in equilibrium.

And let's give thanks and props to our FO for, 1) doing their due diligence, and 2) keeping their mouths appropriately shut about their findings.
 

calsnowskier

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Well, you and I don't know, but the Giants' FO now has a pretty decent idea. He's probably worth more than the $237K from that hilarious tweet from above. Perhaps we could counter-offer at a level at which risk and reward are in equilibrium.
Of course. But for us to speculate on how this changes his market is a fools errand. And who knows if he would even consider the Giants anymore in that scenario.

I get the sense that he will still end up with the Muts, mainly due to Cohen’s comment after the deal leaked (his confirming it puts the Muts in a legal corner).
 

Mays-Fan

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I get the sense that he will still end up with the Muts, mainly due to Cohen’s comment after the deal leaked (his confirming it puts the Muts in a legal corner).
The only reference I could find to what Cohen actually said is this, from MLBTR:

Mets owner Steve Cohen has already addressed the deal, telling Heyman earlier this week that “we needed one more thing, and this is it”. That’s particularly significant as, per The Athletic’s report, addressing the deal on the record could make it trickier to back out of the agreement, although there’s nothing to suggest that’s what the Mets are looking to do.​
Now, I'm no attorney, and I don't know what the MLB/CBA rules are concerning this, but I have trouble seeing how this rises to the level to where the Mets are obligated to comply with the 12/315 agreement. But that is just my own ignorant opinion.
 
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