2016 NBA Off-Season Thread

[tlance]

Post play in general is not as efficient as other play types. Most of the best post up centers score less than 1.00 points per post up possession, when the league average is closer to 1.05 per possession. That is a big difference. There is a reason why teams don't throw the ball in to the center anymore. The numbers back it up.

In fact, some of the best post scorers in the league in terms of efficiency are wings. It follows logically that post play works best when exploiting mismatches. But those contested shots in traffic that result from most post ups simply are not efficient shots. There is no Hakeem Oljawon or Kevin McHale who has the skill to trump rule changes that have made post ups so difficult. The league has changed.

 

[bksballer89]

I'm Sugarshell Akron Gal. Member of Fannation for 6 years. Not a new Cavs fan. Had to stop by and rub it in a little. I endured relentless ribbing when Lebron left. Now its my turn!!!

So you intentionally until they won to make your account? Sweet

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I'm Sugarshell Akron Gal. Member of Fannation for 6 years. Not a new Cavs fan. Had to stop by and rub it in a little. I endured relentless ribbing when Lebron left. Now its my turn!!!

New members are required to post a video of themselves rubbing it.

#hazing

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

traditional centers are less important than ever. The game has shifted to a pick and roll perimeter focus with almost no post play. This means that lumbering rim protectors who struggle with pick and roll defense are more liability than an asset.

Hibbert is a quality rim protector and post defender, but since very few players post these days, his disability in P and R hurts more than his skills help against the vast majority of teams.

D'andre Jordan is the prototypical center in today's NBA. He can rim protect and defend the perimeter. Guys like Tristan Thompson and Biyombo are the future of post play in this league As the game becomes more perimeter oriented. I won't go so far as to say they are more valuable than Whiteside, but I think the team who signs Biyombo is more likely to be happy with themsleves years from now than the team who signs Whiteside. Also, I know the Cavs are very happy with Thompson and his contract.

Whiteside is far from a lumbering rim protector.
There is no part of his game that didn't improve last year.
He's also, in essence, only played 1 full NBA season.
If he were a traditional rookie, what would the conversation be about his future?

Could he go knucklehead after he signs this deal? Of course.
Why would he though?
He wants to be an all star, he wants to be considered for D player of the year, he wants high video game ratings, etc.

I'm sure he will also want another huge contract.

Some here feel a player with his skills aren't a need in today's NBA.

If that's the case, then why are teams going to be lining up to offer him 100M?

 

[gordontrue]

KD in 2010...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Whiteside is far from a lumbering rim protector.
There is no part of his game that didn't improve last year.
He's also, in essence, only played 1 full NBA season.
If he were a traditional rookie, what would the conversation be about his future?

Could he go knucklehead after he signs this deal? Of course.
Why would he though?
He wants to be an all star, he wants to be considered for D player of the year, he wants high video game ratings, etc.

I'm sure he will also want another huge contract.

Some here feel a player with his skills aren't a need in today's NBA.

If that's the case, then why are teams going to be lining up to offer him 100M?

when your argument involves wanting "high video game ratings" its REAL REAL hard for me to feel good about giving that guy big money. ESPECIALLY with viable options. No matter what you say- Whiteside carries some significant risk that other guys simply dont. That would be enough for me to say---hmm--- not gonna take the risk of hamstringing my franchise for the next 4 years.

Like i said- you are certainly welcome to your opinion- but this playoffs ESPECIALLY just confirmed to me how much more valuable a guy like Tristan is than a guy like Whiteside- for so many reasons.

I think whoever signs Whiteside will severely regret it. We shall see....I feel pretty damn good about my track record of predictions lately.


plus- i am interested to see how Riley will "be fine" this offseason! cant wait!

 

[WiggyRuss]

Winderman: Percentages not all in Heat favor in free agency

A reporter that can do math. How refreshing.

 

[WiggyRuss]

KD in 2010...

How do you leave your own kingdom in OKC- when you have a really really good team....it would be tough...those fans love him too....sometimes guys get anxious though- we shall see. I really want to see that Thunder team with Oladipo face the Warriors...would be a fun fun series----- pure athleticism vs. pure skill.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

when your argument involves wanting "high video game ratings" its REAL REAL hard for me to feel good about giving that guy big money. ESPECIALLY with viable options. No matter what you say- Whiteside carries some significant risk that other guys simply dont. That would be enough for me to say---hmm--- not gonna take the risk of hamstringing my franchise for the next 4 years.

Like i said- you are certainly welcome to your opinion- but this playoffs ESPECIALLY just confirmed to me how much more valuable a guy like Tristan is than a guy like Whiteside- for so many reasons.

I think whoever signs Whiteside will severely regret it. We shall see....I feel pretty damn good about my track record of predictions lately.


plus- i am interested to see how Riley will "be fine" this offseason! cant wait!

1. Most NBA players are very 'into' their video game ratings, etc.. Most just don't publicly talk about it. Privately, all the time.

2. If you want to hold Boshs blood clots against Riley, go ahead.
Who would expect anything different from you?

I've already been saying this season might very well be a throw away to get ready for next year because of Bosh.

You predicted Whiteside would get far less then a max, so WTF are you talking about as far as being right?

 

[Bulletz]

How do you leave your own kingdom in OKC- when you have a really really good team....it would be tough...those fans love him too....sometimes guys get anxious though- we shall see. I really want to see that Thunder team with Oladipo face the Warriors...would be a fun fun series----- pure athleticism vs. pure skill.

Westbrook and Oladipo on the floor at the same time is a matchup nightmare for a lot of teams.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

How do you leave your own kingdom in OKC- when you have a really really good team....it would be tough...those fans love him too....sometimes guys get anxious though- we shall see. I really want to see that Thunder team with Oladipo face the Warriors...would be a fun fun series----- pure athleticism vs. pure skill.

Easy answer.
Continue to not win for the next 6 seasons.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Easy answer.
Continue to not win for the next 6 seasons.

I think its 60/40 Whiteside leaves.

I think its 50/50 Bosh is back.


if Bosh and Whiteside are both gone- would you want Dwayne Wade back- or would you want him to go?

my contention would be- it depends. Horford would be a great Bosh replacement...it would depend on what else happened. I have actually seen the HEat attached to Dwight as well.

I guess it does not matter until we see what happens with Whiteside----


at this point do you think the Heat know what will happen with Bosh? I think thats a good quesiton- sometimes i think they gotta know and have a plan- sometimes i think its impossible for them to know which makes it very very difficult to plan....

its a tough scenario down there. How important was it to have a nice 2nd round pick and have a good player fall to you at the end of the lotto in winslow...at least having those 2 allows for the team to have options in which way they want to go.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Winderman: Percentages not all in Heat favor in free agency

A reporter that can do math. How refreshing.

What written here is anything new?

Heat fans feel Deng is gone, and don't want to pay Johnson.

Everything around this summer and season revolves around Bosh.
The Heat HAVE to know by now how they plan to handle that situation.
Since I no new Heat updates. Bosh social media updates, workout videos, etc...my common sense expects the Heat to not clear him.

Why can't you understand that simple math?

 

[WiggyRuss]

What written here is anything new?

Heat fans feel Deng is gone, and don't want to pay Johnson.

Everything around this summer and season revolves around Bosh.
The Heat HAVE to know by now how they plan to handle that situation.
Since I no new Heat updates. Bosh social media updates, workout videos, etc...my common sense expects the Heat to not clear him.

Why can't you understand that simple math?

i wonder if they do know for sure which way to go with Bosh. What a tough situation. Sucks....There really has not been that much information about it available either. Like- can Bosh continue to improve so it will be okay? or is he the best he is gonna get but feels comfortable with the risks but the Heat dont? Can the facts and circumstances change?

Its awfully hard to figure that out when you have a All star caliber PF that makes - I think- at least right now- top 5 money in the league.

 

[WiggyRuss]

What written here is anything new?

Heat fans feel Deng is gone, and don't want to pay Johnson.

Everything around this summer and season revolves around Bosh.
The Heat HAVE to know by now how they plan to handle that situation.
Since I no new Heat updates. Bosh social media updates, workout videos, etc...my common sense expects the Heat to not clear him.

Why can't you understand that simple math?

you are the one that tried to poo-poo my math all spring and say- it doesnt matter what the math is- Riley will be fine- he is a genius- it doesnt matter what your numbers are, blah blah blah...

well- like i said- we are gonna see who is right here soon.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I think its 60/40 Whiteside leaves.

I think Whiteside already knows where he wants to be. My best guess is that it is Miami if they offer him a max right away. As stated, I want him, but won't be devastated if he leaves.


I think its 50/50 Bosh is back.

I think the Heat won't clear him. No way to prevent re occurrence from anything that Ive heard or read.


if Bosh and Whiteside are both gone- would you want Dwayne Wade back- or would you want him to go?

Depends on his demands. I've been against big money, multiple years for him already.


my contention would be- it depends. Horford would be a great Bosh replacement...it would depend on what else happened. I have actually seen the HEat attached to Dwight as well.

Bosh's money is on the books this year whether he plays or not. If Whiteside leaves, then its on Riley to either pursue a C this season or wait until next year. I'm not sure who is available. We'll see.

I guess it does not matter until we see what happens with Whiteside----


Bingo. I agree.


at this point do you think the Heat know what will happen with Bosh? I think thats a good quesiton- sometimes i think they gotta know and have a plan- sometimes i think its impossible for them to know which makes it very very difficult to plan....


YES. I just stated that in previous post.


its a tough scenario down there. How important was it to have a nice 2nd round pick and have a good player fall to you at the end of the lotto in winslow...at least having those 2 allows for the team to have options in which way they want to go.

It is tough, but reality is, its just a game.
Sucks about Bosh, but his real life far outweighs him risking his life on the court.
Next years draft is projected to be loaded.
It we end up like we did 2 years ago, then so be it.
We'd have some very good cheap youth and a ton of space to get some veterans.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

you are the one that tried to poo-poo my math all spring and say- it doesnt matter what the math is- Riley will be fine- he is a genius- it doesnt matter what your numbers are, blah blah blah...

well- like i said- we are gonna see who is right here soon.

Nope.
I said if Durant wanted to come, he'd create space.
No scenario ever included everyone staying, plus adding.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Nope.
I said if Durant wanted to come, he'd create space.
No scenario ever included everyone staying, plus adding.

you might have a 2nd career as a NFL cornerback with how fast you are back pedalling.

this is your MO- its actually a little like LeBrons- passive aggressively run your mouth for months- but when the time actually GETS their to put up or shutup- you just play it off as no big deal- itll all be fine.

well- we shall see who is right- just like i said. Thats the thing i guess you dont get- at some point- time goes on and we see who is right and wrong. and i am DESTROYING you track record wise over the last few months.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It is tough, but reality is, its just a game.
Sucks about Bosh, but his real life far outweighs him risking his life on the court.
Next years draft is projected to be loaded.
It we end up like we did 2 years ago, then so be it.
We'd have some very good cheap youth and a ton of space to get some veterans.

is that your definiton of the heat being "fine" and Riley being able to figure it out?

thats the scenario I laid out months ago- i dont see how this team gets better with its cap constraints- and the best thing would be to tear it down and rebuild and focus on the draft and young guys. Now that is your opinion? THAT WAS MY OPINION FOR MONTHS!!! LOL. I am glad i finally got you to come around to logic and reason!

 

[tlance]

Whiteside is far from a lumbering rim protector.
There is no part of his game that didn't improve last year.
He's also, in essence, only played 1 full NBA season.
If he were a traditional rookie, what would the conversation be about his future?

Could he go knucklehead after he signs this deal? Of course.
Why would he though?
He wants to be an all star, he wants to be considered for D player of the year, he wants high video game ratings, etc.

I'm sure he will also want another huge contract.

Some here feel a player with his skills aren't a need in today's NBA.

If that's the case, then why are teams going to be lining up to offer him 100M?

I agree that Whiteside is more than a lumbering rim protector, but I also think that pick and roll defense is more important than rim protection in today's league. If he can be average P and R, then he will be worth the money for his interior presence. Still though, I think a player like Biyombo who can switch on to guards might be even more valuable defensively. Of course with Whiteside you get some offense too.