2014 Pirates

[pixburgher66]

This is the precise reason I was surprised to see the Pirates trade away Alex Dickerson. I thought from the day they drafted him he was our firstbaseman of the future. Then when he is about a year and change away from the majors, they trade him. No offense to Decker, but he has had a couple shots and not done much with them. He falls in line with Snyder, has some stuff going for them, but just not enough to make me feel good about them going forward. I don't buy the Brandon Moss comps, Moss was better in his limited time in the majors.

On another note, we need to drop 2 guys off the 40 man to sign Volquez and Barmes, anyone want to make guesses? I guess technically they could make a trade, possibly for Mitch Moreland, but with the amount of time they have I don't think that will happen.

Personally, I would drop Andy Oliver and Chase d'Arnaud, but I don't think that aill happen, probably Oliver and Casey Sadler.

I was a bit surprised when they traded Dickerson too. I didn't think he was necessarily the 1B of the future, but he was the only thing we had close to that. I know I've seen mention of converting some of surplus of OF into 1B, which may be an option eventually, but not until much later as to not hamper their value as OF. As far as the 40-man...no idea, but any of the three you mentioned are fine by me. d'Arnaud has no value to the MLB team, not with Mercer, JHay, and now Barmes. Those three and Walker make four capable middle IF. To be positive I'll just say they need to clear THREE spots on the 40-man, for their everyday 1B to be added

 

[pixburgher66]

So if Boone Logan can get 3years for 15, the Pirates might just be sitting on a gold mine with Watson and Wilson. NH should let it ride for a while, I can see a team panic close to the start of the season and give a big haul when desperate for a lefty reliever.

I agree, the market is very inflated for relievers, always seems to be, but especially high right now with limited FA arms...but what exactly are teams willing to part with in this situation in terms of pieces the Pirates need? Are we thinking every day MLB ready guys? High ceiling guys? Blue chip prospects? Really curious what the potential is there. I'm hesitant to move Wilson because I realllllly see him as the closer after Grilli goes.

 

[sychmd]

I agree, the market is very inflated for relievers, always seems to be, but especially high right now with limited FA arms...but what exactly are teams willing to part with in this situation in terms of pieces the Pirates need? Are we thinking every day MLB ready guys? High ceiling guys? Blue chip prospects? Really curious what the potential is there. I'm hesitant to move Wilson because I realllllly see him as the closer after Grilli goes.

agree with wilson as closer once grilli leaves or by the middle of this year.
as i stated earlier, grilli is my biggest concern for regression.
he lost significant velocity when he cam back. if that is his new baseline, we will go to a melanin/wilson/watson closer by committee, and even entertain welker and hughes to move into key leverage situations. i think hughes comes on a bit and is the BP surprise this year with stolmy(stolmy will be a starter for us at MLB) after some time as long reliever.

 

[Illinest]

I've heard talk that they were impressed by Stolmy at the end of the season and it wouldn't surprise me if he's going to the bullpen as a reliever. If Wilson is getting heavy interest then we should see what teams are offering. Not because I like the idea of getting rid of Wilson but rather because Neil has accumulated so many borderline starting pitchers with good stuff. Guys like Pimentel and Oliver (and hell, Wilson was one of these too) who might gain a few mph on their fastball when they get switched over to the bullpen.

 

[element1286]

Yeah, I'm interested in what another team would offer for Wilson. Not sure I give him up unless it's a huge overpay. Two good lefties out of the pen is a huge advantage.

Hypothetical question, do you move Wilson for Smoak?

 

[thecrow124]

Yeah, I'm interested in what another team would offer for Wilson. Not sure I give him up unless it's a huge overpay. Two good lefties out of the pen is a huge advantage.

Hypothetical question, do you move Wilson for Smoak?

No way I would do it. Not becaue I have some percieved value of Wilson, although I do and it is as a starter, but because I don't believe Smoak is very good at playing baseball. I would send a package of Hughes and Morris for Smoak, but I really don't value Hughes or Morris all that much.

As for how the team felt about Stolmy, it really doesn't matter, unless I am wrong on this again, I believe he is out of options and will need to be on the 25 man roster, but I am probably wrong. Another thing on him, he would be my ideal pick as future closer, basically a 2 pitch pitcher with both pitches being plus to plus plus.

 

[Darkstone42]

No way I would do it. Not becaue I have some percieved value of Wilson, although I do and it is as a starter, but because I don't believe Smoak is very good at playing baseball. I would send a package of Hughes and Morris for Smoak, but I really don't value Hughes or Morris all that much.

As for how the team felt about Stolmy, it really doesn't matter, unless I am wrong on this again, I believe he is out of options and will need to be on the 25 man roster, but I am probably wrong. Another thing on him, he would be my ideal pick as future closer, basically a 2 pitch pitcher with both pitches being plus to plus plus.

I seem to recall the same thing about Stolmy, and I think he will find himself in middle relief.

On Smoak, I've always liked him for some reason. I guess it's just his upside, but it's looking less and less like he'll ever get there.

But to give me some perspective, how do you think he compares to Davis? I honestly think Davis could be had for one of Hughes or Morris based on how the talks are going right now.

 

[element1286]

No way I would do it. Not becaue I have some percieved value of Wilson, although I do and it is as a starter, but because I don't believe Smoak is very good at playing baseball. I would send a package of Hughes and Morris for Smoak, but I really don't value Hughes or Morris all that much.

As for how the team felt about Stolmy, it really doesn't matter, unless I am wrong on this again, I believe he is out of options and will need to be on the 25 man roster, but I am probably wrong. Another thing on him, he would be my ideal pick as future closer, basically a 2 pitch pitcher with both pitches being plus to plus plus.

Fair enough on Smoak, I guess I don't know who is acceptable return. Sticking with Seattle, do we expect Brad Miller or with the D'back and Gregroious or Owings? I can't imagine we get someone like that.

Maybe Mike Carp from the Red Sox? To me it would be hard to find a match if the Bucs are looking for young/cheap players, and might have to settle kinda young and kinda cheap.

 

[element1286]

I seem to recall the same thing about Stolmy, and I think he will find himself in middle relief.

On Smoak, I've always liked him for some reason. I guess it's just his upside, but it's looking less and less like he'll ever get there.

But to give me some perspective, how do you think he compares to Davis? I honestly think Davis could be had for one of Hughes or Morris based on how the talks are going right now.

Ike Davis for middle relief? I'd do that in a heartbeat, they can have both.

 

[sychmd]

so our BP is:
grilli, melancon, watson, wilson, gomez, mazzaro, morris.
if all out of options as well as pimental, we need to keep stolmy as dump one of the other RHP
waiting in the wings are
pimental, welker, hughes, mikolas, reid, thornton, locke (if he fizzles as starter)

pimental and wilson are potential starters and can also be probable closers first.

looks like we have some fat to be able to trade either for high end talent/prospects or for smoak type filler. other teams seem so desperate for arms and we have a bunch of very serviceable and coming off good seasons to sell high. not sure what the asking prices are for sending a horde of 4 with one of them being a 10-20 prospect but the other 3 being good MLB BP ready arms to teams with pieces to compete except quantity of arms.

SP: Liriano, Cole, Morton, Wandy, Volquez
next wave in order of my preference: Taillon, Pimental, Locke(hope he does well so we can trade him at deadline), Cumpton, McP, Sadler, Wilson (only out of desperation this year).

it will be interesting to see how long of a leash they have with sandy and volquez before they move up taillon or give stormy some starts or locke. i guess it depends on how those 3 look in Spring games.

 

[Darkstone42]

Ike Davis for middle relief? I'd do that in a heartbeat, they can have both.

That's what I thought, too. But I read the Brewers are starting their talks with a not-very-impressive middle relief centerpiece. I think it might be worth getting in on that if the current market is so weak.

 

[Illinest]

Unless i'm getting confused by all the research i've done on various players then ike davis is one of the few remaining targets that i approve of and that i could see as a potential starter rather than just a platoon player. His home ballpark has depressed his power a little bit and our ballpark (as well as a few of the other nl central parks) ought to boost it a bit.

Carp is a good guy to look at but the market for him is slightly more robust than the market for davis, as i understand.

 

[sychmd]

pirates sign utility player mike martinez. as a pirate fan living in philly, martinez is terrible. a boy playing with men. already in his 30's and getting worse each year or less confident. phils needed so much help last year with all the injuries and he was overmatched. not even great defensively, but OK.

he can't be for mlb bench, and would be a stretch to play at AAA.
darnaud and dejesus are better and can learn OF as good as martinez can play it.
harrison is way better as 5 position player and a PR.
no potential for anything positive out of this.

 

[Illinest]

As far as our bullpen goes - don't see any reason to think that stolmy will be stretched out enough to start at any point. If we suffer a rash of injuries i bet the staff will say something like "he's not stretched out so gomez (or cumpton) is going to get a shot."

I think grilli was injured in a place that affected his velocity but not necessarily his arm. He was still able to dial it up a little bit. Maybe torso or upper leg? I wouldn't be surprised if grilli is healthy and effective and i think it's okay to consider him our closer. I'm more worried by melancon because i don't know what happened to him.

 

[Darkstone42]

As far as our bullpen goes - don't see any reason to think that stolmy will be stretched out enough to start at any point. If we suffer a rash of injuries i bet the staff will say something like "he's not stretched out so gomez (or cumpton) is going to get a shot."

I think grilli was injured in a place that affected his velocity but not necessarily his arm. He was still able to dial it up a little bit. Maybe torso or upper leg? I wouldn't be surprised if grilli is healthy and effective and i think it's okay to consider him our closer. I'm more worried by melancon because i don't know what happened to him.

Melancon was a bit of a mystery, but I think it was mostly just luck catching up with him all at once. I don't think he's as good as he was for much of the year, nor as bad as he was at the end. I do think he's a solid reliever overall, though.

 

[Darkstone42]

Unless i'm getting confused by all the research i've done on various players then ike davis is one of the few remaining targets that i approve of and that i could see as a potential starter rather than just a platoon player. His home ballpark has depressed his power a little bit and our ballpark (as well as a few of the other nl central parks) ought to boost it a bit.

Carp is a good guy to look at but the market for him is slightly more robust than the market for davis, as i understand.

Ike Davis sits atop my targets list as well. Down year last year with injuries, but still hit lefties enough to be a decent half of a platoon, but he's shown and has the upside to be an everyday player. He's probably the only guy available who has a downside of solid platoon half and any chance of playing everyday.

I don't know that he'll benefit tremendously from PNC Park, since it's still a pitcher's park, but it is definitely friendlier to lefties, and as you mentioned the NL Central has more hitter's parks than any other division in the National League, so he should see some benefit there.

He's also a solid defender, which only Loney of the other remaining options can claim.

And from everything I've read, he can be had for less than anyone else on the trade market. Even if we don't think he's the solution at first base for any kind of term, at the very least, he's a commodity who we should try to acquire while his value is low so we can flip him when it's back up for more if we find a better option at first in the future. And if he plays well, maybe he is that better option.

I'm all about going after Ike Davis. I've been intrigued by him for a couple years now, actually. Now he's there and cheap.

 

[steelparrot]

Rays To Re-Sign James Loney: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

3/21 was the unofficial guesstimate in the thread.

We dodged a bullet here imo.

I dont see a big enough difference between Carp/Smoak/Moreland/Davis to make a move before the brewers, let them get one, then we are the last trade partner

 

[thedddd]

^ Same here glad Loney signed elsewhere! Three years for him is just not worth it.

Davis or Carp are probably the to options left but from what I read Carp's defense is not good (I am only by what I read I could be wrong) so that means Davis might be the best option.

 

[Darkstone42]

The Market Value of Post-Hype First Basemen | FanGraphs Baseball

If this is to be trusted, the offer to beat for Davis right now is Mike Fiers, who is largely unimpressive.

 

[element1286]

Rays To Re-Sign James Loney: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

3/21 was the unofficial guesstimate in the thread.

We dodged a bullet here imo.

I dont see a big enough difference between Carp/Smoak/Moreland/Davis to make a move before the brewers, let them get one, then we are the last trade partner

Wow, no thank you.

Infante got 4/30, which is insane too.