2014 Pirates

[Darkstone42]

And now the M's trade for Morrison? What the heck is mad Jack doing out there?

Why? I'm having difficulty now deciding which of this move and the D-Backs trading for Trumbo makes the least sense...

Don't they have Smoak? If they intended Hart to be the RH side of a platoon, are they really upgrading the LH half by replacing him with Morrison? Replacing one high ceiling non-producer with another lower-ceiling one doesn't make sense.

 

[sychmd]

what were the dollars for hart.
i assume morrison was a trade, wonder what he gave up.

i guess once you buy cano, you got to get some other bats. they seem to have good arms that are pretty cheap allowing them to overspend on bats, but this seems like redundancy. must have some other moves to follow.

this is the kind of guy who drives the market up, and causes pain in the small market wallets.

 

[Darkstone42]

If Smoak's on the block, I wouldn't mind asking about him. As the LH side of a platoon, he could be rather productive. He had a .368 wOBA and 134 wRC+ as a lefty last year. I think that's something very worth pursuing in a platoon with Gaby Sanchez.

 

[sychmd]

If Smoak's on the block, I wouldn't mind asking about him. As the LH side of a platoon, he could be rather productive. He had a .368 wOBA and 134 wRC+ as a lefty last year. I think that's something very worth pursuing in a platoon with Gaby Sanchez.

agree, interesting twist.
how is his glove.

 

[Darkstone42]

agree, interesting twist.
how is his glove.

If you trust the metrics, average to slightly below. He shouldn't cost us too much.

 

[Illinest]

Platoons suck. It gives you twice as much opportunity to fail. Like last year, where Gaby held up his end but Jones didn't.
Trying to design your roster to have platoon situations is okay, but you shouldn't ever look at two platoon players on your roster and say "that position is solid because i have complimentary flawed pieces."

And you definitely don't want to have multiple platoons. That can get really ugly.

 

[steelparrot]

2:39pm: Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that Hart's deal compares favorably to Mike Napoli's contract with the Red Sox last year. Napoli signed a one-year, $5MM deal with incentives that took the deal to $13MM.

Mariners To Sign Corey Hart: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com


No wonder he signed with them.

 

[Darkstone42]

Platoons suck. It gives you twice as much opportunity to fail. Like last year, where Gaby held up his end but Jones didn't.
Trying to design your roster to have platoon situations is okay, but you shouldn't ever look at two platoon players on your roster and say "that position is solid because i have complimentary flawed pieces."

And you definitely don't want to have multiple platoons. That can get really ugly.

There are no reasonable non-platoon options at first base in the market right now. Every first baseman who could be a full-time first baseman is locked up by a team who likely isn't giving him up. There are a couple guys who could be had who would be a risk from one side or the other, I suppose, but if you already have a guy who mashes lefties, you should probably target a guy who mashes righties (or at least hits them reasonably well) first and foremost.

Platoons aren't the idea situation, but if nothing else, targeting a guy like Smoak will allow us to have a bat with power either in our lineup or on our bench without conceding a huge number of assets, and that allows us to target players at other positions.

Besides that, there is still some upside to Smoak, and he could develop into an everyday first baseman. Right now, though, he looks like a good target to at least be in a productive platoon with Gaby Sanchez.

EDIT: What exactly would be your plan at first base, by the way?

 

[steelparrot]

Platoons suck. It gives you twice as much opportunity to fail. Like last year, where Gaby held up his end but Jones didn't.
Trying to design your roster to have platoon situations is okay, but you shouldn't ever look at two platoon players on your roster and say "that position is solid because i have complimentary flawed pieces."

And you definitely don't want to have multiple platoons. That can get really ugly.

Platoons arent the ideal situation, but we can live with a 1st base platoon for the short term imo.

 

[element1286]

Platoons suck. It gives you twice as much opportunity to fail. Like last year, where Gaby held up his end but Jones didn't.
Trying to design your roster to have platoon situations is okay, but you shouldn't ever look at two platoon players on your roster and say "that position is solid because i have complimentary flawed pieces."

And you definitely don't want to have multiple platoons. That can get really ugly.

I don't disagree, still don't see any non-platoon guys on the market.

 

[Illinest]

There are no reasonable non-platoon options at first base in the market right now. Every first baseman who could be a full-time first baseman is locked up by a team who likely isn't giving him up. There are a couple guys who could be had who would be a risk from one side or the other, I suppose, but if you already have a guy who mashes lefties, you should probably target a guy who mashes righties (or at least hits them reasonably well) first and foremost.

Platoons aren't the idea situation, but if nothing else, targeting a guy like Smoak will allow us to have a bat with power either in our lineup or on our bench without conceding a huge number of assets, and that allows us to target players at other positions.

Besides that, there is still some upside to Smoak, and he could develop into an everyday first baseman. Right now, though, he looks like a good target to at least be in a productive platoon with Gaby Sanchez.

EDIT: What exactly would be your plan at first base, by the way?

Before it was signing any of a number of guys who are not platoon players. Haven't we argued that point enough?

Now it's trading Pedro for prospects and possibly trading Walker too. I would put mercer at third and hope that Hanson works out at 2nd or SS. Then i'd sign a glove guy (even Barmes, i guess) to play SS.
Both walker and alvarez should net two solid prospects apiece. I'd look for high AA or AAA middle infield, 1B, SP and C. Hopefully at least 1 of those 4 works out then we've pushed costs back enough and extended the timeline enough to line up with guys like Bell, Meadows and maybe Mcguire.

If the Nuttings want to compete with less than 70 million committed to player salary then that's probably the best thing to do.

 

[Darkstone42]

Before it was signing any of a number of guys who are not platoon players. Haven't we argued that point enough?

Now it's trading Pedro for prospects and possibly trading Walker too. I would put mercer at third and hope that Hanson works out at 2nd or SS. Then i'd sign a glove guy (even Barmes, i guess) to play SS.
Both walker and alvarez should net two solid prospects apiece. I'd look for high AA or AAA middle infield, 1B, SP and C. Hopefully at least 1 of those 4 works out then we've pushed costs back enough and extended the timeline enough to line up with guys like Bell, Meadows and maybe Mcguire.

If the Nuttings want to compete with less than 70 million committed to player salary then that's probably the best thing to do.

Who were those guys, though? At first base, at least. The market was essentially Napoli, and while his contract was reasonable, I feel like he was pretty committed to going back to Boston.

 

[Darkstone42]

Pirates and Edinson Volquez agree to a 1-year, $5 million deal. I'm ambivalent to this signing.

 

[thecrow124]

Hey we spent some money today...first we extend Chuckie, now we sign Volquez to a 1 year deal. What is the problem here Coonely you cheap bastard, $35 million in one day?

 

[Darkstone42]

Thinking more about the Volquez deal, I'm starting to see a decent upside. He's got groundball/strikeout stuff, and that plays right into Searage's hands.

Downside, a waste of $5 million for one year.

Upside, Liriano/Burnett.

We'll probably fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[Illinest]

Who were those guys, though? At first base, at least. The market was essentially Napoli, and while his contract was reasonable, I feel like he was pretty committed to going back to Boston.

Are you attempting the "...it's probably just that nobody wanted to come here anyways..." argument?

Cause money usually solves that problem.

If Nutting won't spend then there's nothing else that can be done. I can't make him spend money but i won't sit quietly while his stooges propagate dumb excuses.

 

[Illinest]

Hey we spent some money today...first we extend Chuckie, now we sign Volquez to a 1 year deal. What is the problem here Coonely you cheap bastard, $35 million in one day?

I'm rollin' my eyes. I've been hoping that they wouldn't be dumb enough to try to avoid paying him. As cheap as they've been i've been worried that they'd go year-to year and then replace him with another reclamation project, it's nice to see at least one sensible move, but signing Morton to a contract that pays him what he's worth isn't anything to be proud of.
It's on a level with:
"Renter pays his bills, news at 11!"

"Well my deadbeat brother did at least pay his phone bill this month, so he's got that going for him. Let's throw a big party for him just to show how proud we are that he paid one of his bills for once. Yay!"

 

[sychmd]

volquez had good stuff, then like many pitchers, puts on weight and restricts his motion and arm speed.
loses core strength and harder to repeat mechanics consistently leading to pro command, less velocity and increased injuries.

make the contract contingent on a good conditioning program and he could turn things around with searage getting him back to his mechanics.

 

[thedddd]

I truly don't mind the Volquez deal, isn't he almost in the same type of pitching style as a Liriano? Maybe Searage could work his magic on him? But unfortunately I see it more of a Sanchez turn out vs a Liriano but still such low risk and could still work from the bullpen if needed.

Not sure how others feel but I like the Morton deal, yeah it is a gamble in the mold of the Tabata signing. That could be some major value for a starting pitcher if he stays healthy and his stuff was like what we saw in the playoffs.

 

[thecrow124]

I'm rollin' my eyes. I've been hoping that they wouldn't be dumb enough to try to avoid paying him. As cheap as they've been i've been worried that they'd go year-to year and then replace him with another reclamation project, it's nice to see at least one sensible move, but signing Morton to a contract that pays him what he's worth isn't anything to be proud of.
It's on a level with:
"Renter pays his bills, news at 11!"

"Well my deadbeat brother did at least pay his phone bill this month, so he's got that going for him. Let's throw a big party for him just to show how proud we are that he paid one of his bills for once. Yay!"

The Morton deal is all in your perception of him. If you feel that he is a 1.5 WAR pitcher then the deal would be for market value. If you feel, like I do, that he is going to be worth more than 2 WAR/year, then this is not market value, but a very team friendly deal. I love how Chuck insisted that the team option become a mutual option if he is traded, he wants to stay in Pittsburgh, and took less money than he could have gotten by playing out the next season and hitting free agency.

So since you seem to want to spend enormous amounts of money and pay players what they are worth, should the Pirates rework Cutch's deal and pay him the $35 million/season he is actually worth?