2014 Pirates

[thecrow124]

Pirates Sign Chris Dickerson: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Dickerson is listed at 6-4 and 230, yet his main attributes as far as I can tell from his stat page is he can play all 3 OF spots effectively and is a good baserunner, strange player. Minor league deal, so good value too.

I see this more as a minor league depth signing. Snider and Tabata are both out of options, and both will likely be on the opening day roster with Cutch and Marte in the outfield picture. Harrison will probably be the 5th outfielder in an emergency, that little guy is quite useful in my opinion.

I am actually surprised that the Dickerson signing is getting as much press as it has been, it just isn't much of a story to me.

 

[element1286]

Slow news time, but I think he has a shot. I bet he has an out clause that they release him by X date, if he isn't gonna make the team.

 

[thecrow124]

Slow news time, but I think he has a shot. I bet he has an out clause that they release him by X date, if he isn't gonna make the team.

That would make sense, but I also thinknthis may be his best shot to play on a playoff team, not many chances out there for a player of his limited skill set.

 

[thedddd]

Ray Searage Says He Doesn?t Expect A.J. Burnett To Return « CBS Pittsburgh

Still with Volquez signed, Taillon mid season and Wandy feeling good I think they will be fine without him. But with him it will be a bonus at this point.

 

[element1286]

Kind of rooting for the Bucs to sign Maholm at this point. Unless he is injured, I'm surprised he hasn't signed anywhere as of yet.

 

[thedddd]

Maholm would be a nice addition but wonder if Burnett will be back.

A.J. Burnett Will Pitch In 2014, Test Open Market: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Now the big question do the Pirates want him back or should spend on a 1B?

 

[ramburgh]

I would use the Burnett money to go after Maholm and a first baseman.

Possibly package Locke, Lambo and Snider/Tabata for Stanton. Maybe Stanton can play first and that gives Miami young/cheap replacements plus a SP coming off an all-star season.

Line-up: Marte, Walker, McCutchen, Stanton, Alvarez, Tabata/Snider, Martin, Mercer
SP: Liriano, Cole, Morton, Maholm, Rodriguez/Volquez

 

[thecrow124]

I would use the Burnett money to go after Maholm and a first baseman.

Possibly package Locke, Lambo and Snider/Tabata for Stanton. Maybe Stanton can play first and that gives Miami young/cheap replacements plus a SP coming off an all-star season.

Line-up: Marte, Walker, McCutchen, Stanton, Alvarez, Tabata/Snider, Martin, Mercer
SP: Liriano, Cole, Morton, Maholm, Rodriguez/Volquez

This trade scenario will never happen. Miami is not going to trade Stanton, ever, he will either extend there or leave via free agency.

As for what to do with the Burnett money, I say pay Burnett. There are not two players out there that would help the Pirates nearly as much as Burnett without giving up a draft pick or two. I don't care what team you are that is never a good idea.

I also want no part of Malcolm, I like the guy and all, but he is going to want multiple years, and there is just no reason for that.

In summation, I want Burnett or no one at this point, if we don't sign Burnett, save the money for midseason trades.

 

[sychmd]

This trade scenario will never happen. Miami is not going to trade Stanton, ever, he will either extend there or leave via free agency.

As for what to do with the Burnett money, I say pay Burnett. There are not two players out there that would help the Pirates nearly as much as Burnett without giving up a draft pick or two. I don't care what team you are that is never a good idea.

I also want no part of Malcolm, I like the guy and all, but he is going to want multiple years, and there is just no reason for that.

In summation, I want Burnett or no one at this point, if we don't sign Burnett, save the money for midseason trades.

agree.
Burnett is worth bringing back in another 1yr contract. 2 years even if the price is reasonable.
If a 1B is out there to get, we have the money or trading chips to get one that is reliable and will be with us awhile.
Basically, we can have both if they are both going to produce this year (or if the 1B is a 5-6 yr asset).
Liriano, Cole, Morton, Wandy going into the year with
Locke, Cumpton, Pimentel as contenders for 5
Taillon in June.
We have plenty of BP.

 

[sychmd]

agree.
Burnett is worth bringing back in another 1yr contract. 2 years even if the price is reasonable.
If a 1B is out there to get, we have the money or trading chips to get one that is reliable and will be with us awhile.
Basically, we can have both if they are both going to produce this year (or if the 1B is a 5-6 yr asset).
Liriano, Cole, Morton, Wandy going into the year with
Locke, Cumpton, Pimentel as contenders for 5
Taillon in June.
We have plenty of BP.

Oh yeah,
forgot Volquez, for what he is worth.
if he can stay healthy, not be disruptive to chemistry, give us innings, and starter 4 or 5 level production, that would be great. just get the ball over the plate and compete.
anything more is incredible.

 

[Illinest]

The rumored offer to burnett - 8.5 million - is so low that it seems insulting.

I'm still annoyed by all of the apologists. This is cheapness. Whatever process they use, what justifies 5 million dollar investments in a player like volquez who has been one of if not the worst starters in baseball for the past few years? Why is an above average starting pitcher not worth 14 million when lesser pitchers are getting more?

Maybe if they weren't so busy trying to take on projects they'd have more money to spend on legitimate players?

This was the best chance for a justifiable crack at the world series. They could've added a few short term quality free agents without compromising on whatever long term plan they're executing. The player development budget is getting cheaper as the revenues get bigger, and yet here we are - with a self-imposed cap that has no reasonable justification.

The actual arbitration costs of walker and alvarez were pretty reasonable. There's no reason the team couldn't have spent some money this year. Of course it's only going to get worse from here. If the team was posturing about paying their own players now, just wait til you see what they say in 2015.

 

[element1286]

Maholm would be a nice addition but wonder if Burnett will be back.

A.J. Burnett Will Pitch In 2014, Test Open Market: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Now the big question do the Pirates want him back or should spend on a 1B?

If this is true, this is a gigantic screw up by NH not offering a QO.

 

[element1286]

The rumored offer to burnett - 8.5 million - is so low that it seems insulting.

I'm still annoyed by all of the apologists. This is cheapness. Whatever process they use, what justifies 5 million dollar investments in a player like volquez who has been one of if not the worst starters in baseball for the past few years? Why is an above average starting pitcher not worth 14 million when lesser pitchers are getting more?

Maybe if they weren't so busy trying to take on projects they'd have more money to spend on legitimate players?

This was the best chance for a justifiable crack at the world series. They could've added a few short term quality free agents without compromising on whatever long term plan they're executing. The player development budget is getting cheaper as the revenues get bigger, and yet here we are - with a self-imposed cap that has no reasonable justification.

The actual arbitration costs of walker and alvarez were pretty reasonable. There's no reason the team couldn't have spent some money this year. Of course it's only going to get worse from here. If the team was posturing about paying their own players now, just wait til you see what they say in 2015.

I don't really understand, maybe it is cheapness, if you are gonna offer Josh Johnson around 8 million, it makes no sense to offer Burnett on 8.5. Especially this is one year, I don't think NH is stupid enough to not know you pay more on a one year deal than a long term deal. With the Matt Garza's and Nolasco's getting 10+ and 4 years, this is not a good mark for the Pirate's evaluation process.

But yea, this is really bad if he signs else where for anything around 14 million for one year.

 

[sychmd]

not sure how recent the offer of 8.5 was.
did it happen at the end of last year. was it a number burnett seemed initially in his ballpark.
if it was the early offer, the NH probably estimating arbitration would cost more than it did and he wanted money to pursue 1B or lesser, RF.

now that he has those numbers, he would bid higher. 11M

some of this is on burnett as well. he said he is a pirate or retiring. if he is the man they all say, he should be more open and honest about what his intentions are and his word really means. even 8.5 for a guy who isn't making all the starts and at this age is reasonable for a guy who has made a tone and not really earned most of it.

A qualifying offer makes no difference as no-one is signing a guy to one year, giving up 14 M and giving up a #1 for that. A qualifying offer would have locked the pirates into no less than 14M, which they could always do, and the waiting game would have definitely occurred as no other team would offer and give u a draft. why bid against yourself.

burnett should name his price and then it is a quick negotiation, if any, and sign or say "no, you're asking too much"

 

[element1286]

If Burnett signs elsewhere for less than 14 million the Bucs screwed up even more. If they were willing to go 8.5 and he signs for 12 million. What exactly are they haggling about? If he is willing to sign for 12 elsewhere after months, he was probably willing to sign for 11 here two months ago, then were talking 2.5 million. 2.5 million is chump change on a one year deal.

They handed out 5 million to a guy who got outright released last year, why is Burnett, who was arguably top 10 pitcher in the NL only worth 3.5 more than him? Insanity if that is their process.

 

[steelparrot]

For once I'll join you Illinest, if this is all about a few mill on a one year deal, its stupidity/cheapness.

 

[thecrow124]

agree.
Burnett is worth bringing back in another 1yr contract. 2 years even if the price is reasonable.
If a 1B is out there to get, we have the money or trading chips to get one that is reliable and will be with us awhile.
Basically, we can have both if they are both going to produce this year (or if the 1B is a 5-6 yr asset).
Liriano, Cole, Morton, Wandy going into the year with
Locke, Cumpton, Pimentel as contenders for 5
Taillon in June.
We have plenty of BP.

My thinking on 1B is this, we have a prospect that hit 33 homeruns over 3 levels last year. At some point you have to see if that guy can hit at the major leagues. I realize his defense is not going to be a plus tool, but he is relatively young and athletic, he should be able to transition with some work. He also seems more than willing to do that. I see no reason to trade anyone or sign any free agent until we find out one way or the other wether he can play the position. If you offer him no other options, at some point Hurdle is going to have to trust someone with less than a full season in the majors. I am also not sure that 1B is a position that you want to trade for because overall, the position is very thin which means you would have to pay a premium for a less than premium talent. However that is just me thinking out loud, but seems accurate if the Mets are asking for Ingham/Thornburg for Ike Davis.

 

[thedddd]

Yeah there is no true easy answer since 1B what is left is such a poor value position.
My issue is they could have qualified Burrett for just under 15mil and not wasted money on Volquez. I know they would have spent 10 million more but they know what they are getting in Burnett. Volquez who knows could be anything from a Liriano to a Sanchez. With this team being a playoff team is that gamble truly worth it?

 

[Darkstone42]

We really ought to sign Burnett. There is no player on the market who can give us more value than him. Ask him what he wants and cap the offer at the QO. He'll sign.

 

[Illinest]

It's what i said before. The pirates weren't willing to pay 14 million. If they were, then they would've extended the QO. It's really that simple.

If they aren't willing to pay 14 million for Burnett then the question you need to be asking is "why?"

It appears to be a reasonable price.
It is definitely within their budget based on what they offered to Johnson and signed Volquez for. Of course i think their budget should be significantly higher than that, but all i'm hoping is that you'll accept a less aggressive argument here.

They must not want Burnett, or feel that they can "get by" without him. If the second explanation is the more accurate one then you ought to be concerned. Aiming for "good enough" is generally a pretty good way to ensure mediocrity imo.