2014 Offseason

[saddles]

bc a large part of choo's value was predicated on him being the lead off hitter

Also, even at his best Choo was never worth what we gave him. JD wanted to do something and he overpaid and gave him way too many years. He is overpaid no matter where he hits to me. A team that is trying to watch every expenditure cannot afford that kind of contract.

 

[scotsman1948]

I've never been a real fan of winning or losing when it comes to trades. Meaning that it's a business deal of two trade partners, and I'd rather both teams be honest with each other up front, get what/whom they're looking for and then let the chips fall where they may.

Your thinking of Preller having the upper hand of knowledge certainly makes a lot of sense. All the more reason to have a good scouting department.

if we could end up with one of Ian Kennedy, Andrew Cashner and Tyson Ross + one of Yasmani Grandal and Rene Rivera i would be happy

 

[DT LUNA]

Also, even at his best Choo was never worth what we gave him. JD wanted to do something and he overpaid and gave him way too many years. He is overpaid no matter where he hits to me. A team that is trying to watch every expenditure cannot afford that kind of contract.

Could the same not be said for Prince and Elvis? Long contracts, one can't hit and the other can't field. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

 

[scotsman1948]

Could the same not be said for Prince and Elvis? Long contracts, one can't hit and the other can't field. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

well we could eliminate one of those by trading elvis

 

[DT LUNA]

well we could eliminate one of those by trading elvis

We can't trade Elvis till we can replace him and Profar is no sure bet.

 

[scotsman1948]

We can't trade Elvis till we can replace him and Profar is no sure bet.

not talking immediately

 

[DT LUNA]

not talking immediately

Nor I. Don't think it will be this year.

 

[scotsman1948]

We can't trade Elvis till we can replace him and Profar is no sure bet.

hear the Rangers are very interested in Cuban SS Yoan Moncado

 

[darrylgann]

We can't trade Elvis till we can replace him and Profar is no sure bet.

He'd be the easiest to trade. Not going to be easy to find a trading partner for Choo or Fielder I would think.

 

[saddles]

Could the same not be said for Prince and Elvis? Long contracts, one can't hit and the other can't field. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

Of the three I would say Elvis is the closest to being worth what he is being paid.

 

[saddles]

He'd be the easiest to trade. Not going to be easy to find a trading partner for Choo or Fielder I would think.

The easiest isn't necessarily the best way to go though.

 

[Justinkm83]

Also, even at his best Choo was never worth what we gave him. JD wanted to do something and he overpaid and gave him way too many years. He is overpaid no matter where he hits to me. A team that is trying to watch every expenditure cannot afford that kind of contract.

Choo only made 14 last year and will make the same next year. He was worth the money we gave him in years 2009, 2010, and 2013. 2008 and 2012 weren't too shabby either. If he hits like he did before he got hurt he'll earn his money.

 

[Justinkm83]

hear the Rangers are very interested in Cuban SS Yoan Moncado

Since the Rangers cannot sign a player who is subject to the international pool for more than $250,000 until July 2, 2015, they are basically out on Moncada, unless he doesn't get the license before July 2, or unless they can cut a deal with him that involves him waiting until after July 2 to sign.


http://www.lonestarball.com/2014/11/15/7225805/yoan-moncada-has-been-declared-a-free-agent-by-mlb

 

[saddles]

Choo only made 14 last year and will make the same next year. He was worth the money we gave him in years 2009, 2010, and 2013. 2008 and 2012 weren't too shabby either. If he hits like he did before he got hurt he'll earn his money.

If he had signed a two year contract worth $28 million total I would agree with you. Instead he signed a seven year contract worth $130 million. To me he is not worth anywhere near that much over seven years. He has never hit well enough to be worth that.

 

[romeo212000]

If he had signed a two year contract worth $28 million total I would agree with you. Instead he signed a seven year contract worth $130 million. To me he is not worth anywhere near that much over seven years. He has never hit well enough to be worth that.

Actually, if you go back to 2008, Choo has averaged 3.75 fWAR/year (excluding last season). Assuming a value of $5 million/WAR, Choo has provided an average value of $18.75 million per year going back to 2008. Slightly more than his approximate $18.5 million annual average.

 

[Justinkm83]

If he had signed a two year contract worth $28 million total I would agree with you. Instead he signed a seven year contract worth $130 million. To me he is not worth anywhere near that much over seven years. He has never hit well enough to be worth that.

His offense wouldn't be what keeps his value down. His oWAR for the last the last 7 years is: 3.6, 5.3, 5.3, 1.4, 4.7, 6.3, and 1.4 (injured). His OBP had been over .373 5 of the last 7 years. He's usually around 15-20 HR's with 35 2B's. It's a little too early in the contract to say he'll never be worth it. I'll be happy if he gets back to his norm next year, even if he was already getting 20M.

 

[saddles]

Actually, if you go back to 2008, Choo has averaged 3.75 fWAR/year (excluding last season). Assuming a value of $5 million/WAR, Choo has provided an average value of $18.75 million per year going back to 2008. Slightly more than his approximate $18.5 million annual average.

That is a good example of the shortcomings of WAR in my opinion. Whoever weighted the factors involved in that formula has a much different opinion than I do about how much importance each factor should have. Some folks live and die by WAR, but I don't pay attention to it. It is an interesting theory, but I don't buy into it.

 

[saddles]

His offense wouldn't be what keeps his value down. His oWAR for the last the last 7 years is: 3.6, 5.3, 5.3, 1.4, 4.7, 6.3, and 1.4 (injured). His OBP had been over .373 5 of the last 7 years. He's usually around 15-20 HR's with 35 2B's. It's a little too early in the contract to say he'll never be worth it. I'll be happy if he gets back to his norm next year, even if he was already getting 20M.

The reason I said what I did about him not being worth it is because I think even if he gets back to the level he was at before 2014 that he will not be worth it. Also, over 7 years he will not be able to even be at that level for the entire length of the contract.

The OBP zealots around the county love him, but I have never been one of those.

 

[romeo212000]

That is a good example of the shortcomings of WAR in my opinion. Whoever weighted the factors involved in that formula has a much different opinion than I do about how much importance each factor should have. Some folks live and die by WAR, but I don't pay attention to it. It is an interesting theory, but I don't buy into it.

And this is where our opinions diverge. I do not live and die by WAR, but to ignore entirely is pretty foolish IMO.

 

[romeo212000]

The reason I said what I did about him not being worth it is because I think even if he gets back to the level he was at before 2014 that he will not be worth it. Also, over 7 years he will not be able to even be at that level for the entire length of the contract.

The OBP zealots around the county love him, but I have never been one of those.

I'm more interested and impressed in his career .836 OPS.