2014 Offseason Plans Thread Pt2

[darrylgann]

What do you mean only close? Its an extremely important and vital position

Terps, any news on the Cruz front or is all closed down till after Christmas?

 

[terpsfball09]

My friend is off this entire week. But he didn't say whether they all were, he just said he was. So I haven't gotten any news

 

[darrylgann]

My friend is off this entire week. But he didn't say whether they all were, he just said he was. So I haven't gotten any news

Just as well. No worries. Find out next week then. Heard Choo's physical is after Christmas anyways. Thursday.

 

[jta4437]

I remember it being during game 6.

That wasn't it, I only found 2 posts by me in there at all

And I didn't find any by her but I didn't go through every page

It was something else

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/texas-rangers/50493-rangers-vs-cardinals-game-6-a-13.html

 

[jta4437]

What do you mean only close? Its an extremely important and vital position

It doesn't require one guy to do it, its definitely overrated, and judging by what closers are starting to get, in terms of years at least, most teams are choosing to take it a couple years at a time at most

 

[terpsfball09]

It doesn't require one guy to do it, its definitely overrated, and judging by what closers are starting to get, in terms of years at least, most teams are choosing to take it a couple years at a time at most

I disagree with this respectfully. Sure, they are getting overpaid, but the position isn't overrated at all. It isn't like middle relief or setting up. Closing is a different animal. Its not easy to come in when its a close game. You will likely face good hitting, because even when its not the middle of the order they usually bring someone off the bench that can do it with one swing. Then, when someone gets on, they bring in an irritating guy to run for him and agitate the pitcher. When you're on the road there is tension between every pitch. Closing isn't like anything else, and I think its an extremely important position. The past 15 years the 9th inning for the yankees has been automatic.

 

[terpsfball09]

Now, am I worried about our closing situation? Definitely not. I think we have 3 great candidates for the job. But when you have a closer, you have a closer. That's his inning. I guarantee you if you walked up to mo rivera or joe nathan or trevor hoffman and you tell them "I'm gonna platoon you this year in the closer role" they would fight for that inning. That's their inning and they take a ton of pride in it. We should give the 9th inning to one of our guys and let it be his until he proves otherwise.

 

[romeo212000]

Now, am I worried about our closing situation? Definitely not. I think we have 3 great candidates for the job. But when you have a closer, you have a closer. That's his inning. I guarantee you if you walked up to mo rivera or joe nathan or trevor hoffman and you tell them "I'm gonna platoon you this year in the closer role" they would fight for that inning. That's their inning and they take a ton of pride in it. We should give the 9th inning to one of our guys and let it be his until he proves otherwise.

They may fight for it, but I still say go with closer by the hot hand

 

[terpsfball09]

Well, I think you go with whoever your best guy is. But I don't think you go into the season saying that 3 different pitchers should pitch the 9th inning. I think you let the best guy out of ST go first, if he's not successful then you go to the next guy. I don't think you should give the position to 3 different people right off the bat

 

[terpsfball09]

In other words, the closer already has enough pressure on him every time he pitches. There is no sense in adding the pressure of losing his job to someone else if he blows one save. You gotta have confidence in your 9th inning guy, then once it becomes a problem you can switch him.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I really wasn't trying to start a Closer Debate. All I was meaning was that there are definitely three candidates for the job ... two who have closed before very effectively ... and one who hasn't but may at this point have better stuff. But there may be other options ... although the thought that RW can adjust his bullpen management to do something different is not very probable. So its for conversation here alone.

Gonna be awhile for TEX to decide who the Closer will be ... but the past two seasons with Nathan didn't resemble past seasons where Frankie would be in and then Frankie was out ... and then Nefti was in and then he was out. I don't think we want to go back to those days.

Couple of years ago we have a long debate thread about Closing. The conventional school was you let one guy close and stick with him forever until he totally crashes and burns. The other school is shared by some here that "any ML pitcher ought to be able to get three outs before giving up three runs".

I am from the try something weird unconventional school on most things ... and that includes closing. I wonder if Colby Lewis might be a good closer? You don't have to be a fireballer to be a closer if you have pinpoint accuracy and a breaking ball that looks like your fastball. Why can't Colby close if he doesn't start? Why not Neil Cotts close? Robbie Ross?

Worst thing a closer can do (after giving up a HR) is walk anyone. I'd rather have a ground ball pitcher be a closer (which eliminates Colby). I sure wouldn't want someone like Long Ball Lowe in the job. Feliz scares me when he is out there when his 4seam moves about 1/20th of an inch. Scheppers can have the same issue but is just wild enough that nobody is going to dig in against him. We have not seen what Soria has yet ... and from an experience standpoint me might be the guy.

But the bottom line is that rather than lock in on three guys ... why not mix things up by design? Getting the last three outs of the game is only a big deal because the guys who pitch that inning have marketed themselves and their situation to be a big deal. It's just 3 of 27.

 

[lainey12]

That wasn't it, I only found 2 posts by me in there at all

And I didn't find any by her but I didn't go through every page

It was something else

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/texas-rangers/50493-rangers-vs-cardinals-game-6-a-13.html

Well, I made a huge mistake and read through the thread from your link on, it's so freaking depressing.
You put behind you, or at least you think you do....and here come all the crap memories back
we know what happens, and it's still hard to believe.
And even though most of them are gone now, I still feel bad for those guys...if that's not a killer, I don't know what is

Interestingly enough, it's still the pitching that frustrates me the most, not Cruz

Eh well,
we'll get one dammit...

Back to the future

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Now, am I worried about our closing situation? Definitely not. I think we have 3 great candidates for the job. But when you have a closer, you have a closer. That's his inning. I guarantee you if you walked up to mo rivera or joe nathan or trevor hoffman and you tell them "I'm gonna platoon you this year in the closer role" they would fight for that inning. That's their inning and they take a ton of pride in it. We should give the 9th inning to one of our guys and let it be his until he proves otherwise.

I am a little concerned about whoever our closer ends up being. Scheppers is still young and unproven in the role and Soria may be that person but after having Nathan it will be real easy for us to get unnerved if a few save opportunities are blown early on.

 

[jta4437]

I disagree with this respectfully. Sure, they are getting overpaid, but the position isn't overrated at all. It isn't like middle relief or setting up. Closing is a different animal. Its not easy to come in when its a close game. You will likely face good hitting, because even when its not the middle of the order they usually bring someone off the bench that can do it with one swing. Then, when someone gets on, they bring in an irritating guy to run for him and agitate the pitcher. When you're on the road there is tension between every pitch. Closing isn't like anything else, and I think its an extremely important position. The past 15 years the 9th inning for the yankees has been automatic.

I think its overrated in the sense that its no more important than the guy who pitches the 7th or 8th inning in relief,

Also if someone came in the 8th inning and struck out the side in order, why the hell would you take them out for the 9th, just because it was the "closer's" inning, that's asinine to me

Or the 7th inning guy that comes in with 2 outs and 2 men on after the starter got in trouble? how is his job any less difficult?

THAT'S how the closer position is overrated, he comes on in a none on and nobody out situation and he's hailed for it because he got the almighty "save" if he fails its his OWN doing

the 7th inning and 8th inning guy often have to clean up somebody else's mess and are demonized like a closer if they fail... 2 men & 2 on, and he gives up a single and gives up the tying score, who didn't do their job? the reliever, not the starter who created the mess

I'm not saying thats the way people HERE perceive it but that is the general trend among the ignorant passing fan and even the media

How come the Rolaids relief man award never goes to a truly dominant middle reliever? they exist, ones that are far better than other closers and often times better than their own closer (Kenley Jensen comes to mind)

 

[jta4437]

I am a little concerned about whoever our closer ends up being. Scheppers is still young and unproven in the role and Soria may be that person but after having Nathan it will be real easy for us to get unnerved if a few save opportunities are blown early on.

We should be used to chaos in the 9th after years of Feliz & Nathan

Nathan was good but it seems like he rarely had an easy 9th, same with Feliz, I'm not worried

I think Soria ends up being the primary guy in the 9th though

 

[jta4437]

I think its overrated in the sense that its no more important than the guy who pitches the 7th or 8th inning in relief,

Also if someone came in the 8th inning and struck out the side in order, why the hell would you take them out for the 9th, just because it was the "closer's" inning, that's asinine to me

Or the 7th inning guy that comes in with 2 outs and 2 men on after the starter got in trouble? how is his job any less difficult?

THAT'S how the closer position is overrated, he comes on in a none on and nobody out situation and he's hailed for it because he got the almighty "save" if he fails its his OWN doing

the 7th inning and 8th inning guy often have to clean up somebody else's mess and are demonized like a closer if they fail... 2 men & 2 on, and he gives up a single and gives up the tying score, who didn't do their job? the reliever, not the starter who created the mess

I'm not saying thats the way people HERE perceive it but that is the general trend among the ignorant passing fan and even the media

How come the Rolaids relief man award never goes to a truly dominant middle reliever? they exist, ones that are far better than other closers and often times better than their own closer (Kenley Jensen comes to mind)

I do realize that the Relief award is based on statistical performance but i think its too geared towards closers and the "save," it needs to be more encompassing

If its a closer award, then call it the closer award, not relief man

 

[donaldson79]

I think its overrated in the sense that its no more important than the guy who pitches the 7th or 8th inning in relief,

Also if someone came in the 8th inning and struck out the side in order, why the hell would you take them out for the 9th, just because it was the "closer's" inning, that's asinine to me

Or the 7th inning guy that comes in with 2 outs and 2 men on after the starter got in trouble? how is his job any less difficult?

THAT'S how the closer position is overrated, he comes on in a none on and nobody out situation and he's hailed for it because he got the almighty "save" if he fails its his OWN doing

the 7th inning and 8th inning guy often have to clean up somebody else's mess and are demonized like a closer if they fail... 2 men & 2 on, and he gives up a single and gives up the tying score, who didn't do their job? the reliever, not the starter who created the mess

I'm not saying thats the way people HERE perceive it but that is the general trend among the ignorant passing fan and even the media

How come the Rolaids relief man award never goes to a truly dominant middle reliever? they exist, ones that are far better than other closers and often times better than their own closer (Kenley Jensen comes to mind)

....very well said.

 

[donaldson79]

We should be used to chaos in the 9th after years of Feliz & Nathan

Nathan was good but it seems like he rarely had an easy 9th, same with Feliz, I'm not worried

I think Soria ends up being the primary guy in the 9th though

I have no idea who will be our closer. But it's there for the taking. May the best man put his foot forward.

Our 40 man roster is now set, barring another move of course. Let's go to ST and leave with our best 25. And I truly believe we've got 25 pretty good ones to choose from. And I look for the competition at several positions - 4th OF, 5th starter & closer for sure - to make this a very fun and interesting training camp.

 

[DT LUNA]

....very well said.

Another agree!

 

[terpsfball09]

Well, I agree that your entire bullpen is very important...

My old college pitching coach, who I find to be a very very smart and accomplished man, would always say "You're fucking team is only as good as its fucking bullpen." Bullpen guys have much harder jobs than starters. They gotta come in throwin strikes immediately. The leash is much smaller with them, and they don't really get the chance to settle in. But you bring in that closer and you make a statement to the other team. If the team you're playing only has 8 innings to score while you have 9, that is obviously a huge advantage. Now, the awards thing may be overrated, but usually closers at one point were used in other parts of the bullpen. Usually a closer is a failed starter who is then put in the bullpen and earns promotion after promotion to earn the closers role. Usually , and I know it is not always the case, you have to earn the closer spot. You don't just get called up from the minors to be the closer. Maybe thats why they get the awards. I think any awards in baseball besides the ring and the triple crown are overrated, but thats me