2014 Offseason Plans Thread Pt2

[Windingmywatch]

I don't see Rios as the "hole" you see him as, I'll leave it at that, Moreland & Rios in the 5/6 spots isn't nearly as big a problem as people are making it out to be

But that's JMO

If Rios was the right guy to bat #5 ... then what the heck was AJ batting #5 typically from August onward ... with Rios typically batting #6?

At the height of the battle down the stretch Rios wasn't good enough to bat #5 ... so over the winter did he get better ... or is it just that AJ is gone and he's the best option?

All I am saying is that teams that acquire Fielder and Choo don't do that. TEX has not touched their prospects to address 2014 needs. We've already noted that EE is cheap and to get him will mean prospects ... so if EE is a stellar option for the everyday DH batting #5 ... then I say go get him.

 

[jta4437]

If Rios was the right guy to bat #5 ... then what the heck was AJ batting #5 typically from August onward ... with Rios typically batting #6?

At the height of the battle down the stretch Rios wasn't good enough to bat #5 ... so over the winter did he get better ... or is it just that AJ is gone and he's the best option?

Only explanation I have for that is Wash is an idiot as he has proven repeatedly with time, that's why I also said Rios & Moreland in the 5 & 6 spot, I don't see the problem

But that being said, what's a reasonable package for EE at this juncture?

Just saying, "Go for it" doesn't really do much for me

 

[Windingmywatch]

Only explanation I have for that is Wash is an idiot as he has proven repeatedly with time, that's why I also said Rios & Moreland in the 5 & 6 spot, I don't see the problem

But that being said, what's a reasonable package for EE at this juncture?

Just saying, "Go for it" doesn't really do much for me

Now that is a good question. I suggest Moreland+Sardinas+Luke Jackson.

 

[jta4437]

Now that is a good question. I suggest Moreland+Sardinas+Luke Jackson.

When Toronto says to piss off, what is your Plan B to fill this "#5 hole" since its such a pressing issue that must be solved now?

 

[Windingmywatch]

When Toronto says to piss off, what is your Plan B to fill this "#5 hole" since its such a pressing issue that must be solved now?

Honestly ... I don't think TOR (or many other teams for that matter) would tell TEX to "piss off" with the prospects TEX has in its stable. Teams like TOR would counter with what they want from TEX since TEX has already put value on EE.

I think the conversation is more like ... "we are interested in EE ... what would it take for us to trade him to us?" There is a rule in business negotiations ... whoever mentions a price first loses.

TEX might start out with ... "we are open to giving you Mitch Moreland for EE ... how does that look for starters? Let's figure out how to make this work for us both."

It's a conversation ... I don't think GM's tell other GMs to piss off ... especially the TEX GM.

 

[jta4437]

Honestly ... I don't think TOR (or many other teams for that matter) would tell TEX to "piss off" with the prospects TEX has in its stable. Teams like TOR would counter with what they want from TEX since TEX has already put value on EE.

I think the conversation is more like ... "we are interested in EE ... what would it take for us to trade him to us?" There is a rule in business negotiations ... whoever mentions a price first loses.

TEX might start out with ... "we are open to giving you Mitch Moreland for EE ... how does that look for starters? Let's figure out how to make this work for us both."

It's a conversation ... I don't think GM's tell other GMs to piss off ... especially the TEX GM.

It was a figure of speech, don't take it so literal

So if they said no to that package after tenuous negotiations, then what? do you offer more bc its so important to fill that 5 hole?

BTW I asked this question already and you didn't answer it, but instead gave me GM etiquette about telling each other to piss off

 

[Windingmywatch]

It was a figure of speech, don't take it so literal

So if they said no to that package after tenuous negotiations, then what? do you offer more bc its so important to fill that 5 hole?

BTW I asked this question already and you didn't answer it, but instead gave me GM etiquette about telling each other to piss off

If TEX views its offer's value equal to or slightly more than what it value's EE ... then alternative to EE might be ... staying with TOR for Adam Lind although he's a LH bat and I was looking for a RH power bat. Would yield a perfect batting order of ...

Choo (L)
Andrus (R)
Fielder (L)
Beltre (R)
Lind (L)
Rios (R)
Martin (L)
Soto (R)
Profar (S)

 

[jta4437]

If TEX views its offer's value equal to or slightly more than what it value's EE ... then alternative to EE might be ... staying with TOR for Adam Lind although he's a LH bat and I was looking for a RH power bat. Would yield a perfect batting order of ...

Choo (L)
Andrus (R)
Fielder (L)
Beltre (R)
Lind (L)
Rios (R)
Martin (L)
Soto (R)
Profar (S)

We obviously have a different understanding of perfect...

I don't really see Adam Lind as much of an improvment over Rios/Moreland

But I guess it just depends, is it the Adam Lind of 2009 & 2013 with OPS's of .932 & .854, then yes

or the one of in between 2010-2012... .712-.734? then no

And no way I bat Martin behind Rios, switch Soto & Martin and I'm on board

And what does someone like Lind fetch in your eyes?

 

[Windingmywatch]

We obviously have a different understanding of perfect...

I don't really see Adam Lind as much of an improvment over Rios/Moreland

But I guess it just depends, is it the Adam Lind of 2009 & 2013 with OPS's of .932 & .854, then yes

or the one of in between 2010-2012... .712-.734? then no

And no way I bat Martin behind Rios, switch Soto & Martin and I'm on board

And what does someone like Lind fetch in your eyes?

Lind had two DL stints in 2012 which probably had a lot to do with his low productivity in 2012. I did not check 2011.

In 2013 he had a 100 point split between RH and LH pitchers despite his overall good numbers for the season. To me that is typical of a LH power bat being susceptible to strong LHP. With ALW teams loading up LH pitching ... Lind may not be a great fit for TEX after I went and put him up there as an alternative for EE.

Tradeability? Calafaro: "... Blue Jays could trade Adam Lind this winter. The club picked up Lind's $7 million option for 2014, but Cafardo believes they could then turn around and trade him. He writes that there is "some sentiment in the organization that he doesn’t fit what the Blue Jays are trying to build in terms of attitude." Lind had a big bounce-back season in 2013, batting .288/.357/.497 with 23 homers and 67 RBI." Recent news on Adam Lind - Toronto Blue Jays - Rotoworld.com

Would not be surprised if TOR would trade Lind straight up for Moreland as they are looking for the future. The thing is if TOR is willing to exchange Lind for Moreland straight up ... well then TEX will probably feel that TOR doesn't think enough of him to warrant getting Moreland.

So we are back to Rios/Moreland in #5/#6 ... and for me that is two question marks back to back.

I will go with your thoughts on flipping Martin and Soto ... TEX may still want Martin at #9 though in front of Choo/Andrus.

 

[jta4437]

Lind had two DL stints in 2012 which probably had a lot to do with his low productivity in 2012. I did not check 2011.

In 2013 he had a 100 point split between RH and LH pitchers despite his overall good numbers for the season. To me that is typical of a LH power bat being susceptible to strong LHP. With ALW teams loading up LH pitching ... Lind may not be a great fit for TEX after I went and put him up there as an alternative for EE.

Tradeability? Calafaro: "... Blue Jays could trade Adam Lind this winter. The club picked up Lind's $7 million option for 2014, but Cafardo believes they could then turn around and trade him. He writes that there is "some sentiment in the organization that he doesn’t fit what the Blue Jays are trying to build in terms of attitude." Lind had a big bounce-back season in 2013, batting .288/.357/.497 with 23 homers and 67 RBI." Recent news on Adam Lind - Toronto Blue Jays - Rotoworld.com

Would not be surprised if TOR would trade Lind straight up for Moreland as they are looking for the future. The thing is if TOR is willing to exchange Lind for Moreland straight up ... well then TEX will probably feel that TOR doesn't think enough of him to warrant getting Moreland.

So we are back to Rios/Moreland in #5/#6 ... and for me that is two question marks back to back.

I will go with your thoughts on flipping Martin and Soto ... TEX may still want Martin at #9 though in front of Choo/Andrus.

I believe 2009 & 2013 are the outliers, and his production in other years is indicative of who he is, and that's not really much, if any, of an improvement on Moreland

I've stated the reasons why I would prefer Martin at 8 & Profar at 9 previously, so I'm not going to repeat myself

EE is about the only reasonable option to fill the #5 spot and its going to be costly prospect wise and there's a chance Toronto isn't realistically looking to deal him until later in the season

I'm a fan of EE, but I wouldn't be willing to do much more than what you stated previously and even that hurts, mostly b/c of LuJax... I hate trading quality starting pitching prospects for DH only types, but for EE I can see it working

 

[scotsman1948]

We obviously have a different understanding of perfect...

I don't really see Adam Lind as much of an improvment over Rios/Moreland

But I guess it just depends, is it the Adam Lind of 2009 & 2013 with OPS's of .932 & .854, then yes

or the one of in between 2010-2012... .712-.734? then no

And no way I bat Martin behind Rios, switch Soto & Martin and I'm on board

And what does someone like Lind fetch in your eyes?

i would bat Profar after Rios and then Soto followed Martin

 

[WastinSomeTime]

See out on MLBTR that we are interested in resigning Jeff Baker.

 

[Justinkm83]

i would bat Profar after Rios and then Soto followed Martin

Why don't we wait until he shows he can hit higher than .230 before putting him in the 6 hole.

Rios
Mitch
Soto
Martin
Profar

That's how I would have it.

 

[terpsfball09]

The interest in Jeff Baker may be overstated. We've spoken to his agent twice over this winter (unless we have in the past two days). Nelson Cruz is out of the question and we've crossed him off of our list. My friend told me that we are looking at jeff baker as more of a plan B right now if we don't make a move for a different DH. This was a couple of days ago. I only say this because of mlbtr's post about baker.

 

[Windingmywatch]

See out on MLBTR that we are interested in resigning Jeff Baker.

Either sets the stage for a Mitch/Jeff DH combo as insurance ... or sends the signal that if PIT wants Moreland they need to move or else TEX locks him in with a job here and the price goes up.

 

[terpsfball09]

If Jeff Baker could freakin hit righties he'd be a very cheap substitute for morales and we'd still be able to trade mitch and 1 or 2 prospects for a pitcher... one could only dream

 

[elziegreat42]

The interest in Jeff Baker may be overstated. We've spoken to his agent twice over this winter (unless we have in the past two days). Nelson Cruz is out of the question and we've crossed him off of our list. My friend told me that we are looking at jeff baker as more of a plan B right now if we don't make a move for a different DH. This was a couple of days ago. I only say this because of mlbtr's post about baker.

did he give you any idea on what we're targeting? trade, free agent, or either?

 

[terpsfball09]

No, he just said he had the impression that baker was a plan b option because of other people we are considering before him. I was busy at the time so I didn't really ask too much in detail.

 

[gregrey972]

ohhh man I would be very interested in who else we are considering for the DH position...if we are truly looking to fill that position with someone better than Moreland...he would be a big time impact bat...that's exciting!

 

[elziegreat42]

im pretty shocked that they've completely crossed cruz off the list. what if he dropped his asking price considerably? he plugs the 5 hole problem