2012 College Football / 2013 NFL Draft

[optimist4720]

Yes it is something to consider Deep ..being a farm club for developmental QBs when we have great coaches who can actually develop QBs..to later sell them to other teams to the highest bidder..But it does chew up a roster spot and only works if you pick a guy up in rd 4 or later...to make up for the risk of busting and uncertainty on the future trade/sale of the developed QB prospect. Sooo..4th rd today--->maybe a late 1st or 2nd rder+3rd rder in the future.

 

[imac_21]

We've discussed this ad nauseum in another thread. Let's not re-hash it on this one.

I simply think Harbaugh could turn Bray into at least a top 15 QB in the NFL, if not a top 10 one. If you can get a guy like that with the 15th pick it's a steal, much less the 63rd pick. it's all about investing (I'll explain what I mean by investing in another thread).

In a league with 32 starting QBs, it's really not a steal to get the 15th (or 10th) best with a top 10 pick.

 

[NinerSickness]

In a league with 32 starting QBs, it's really not a steal to get the 15th (or 10th) best with a top 10 pick.

So if you're the Bills at 8, it would be a bad pick to get a QB like Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson with the 8th selection?

 

[imac_21]

So if you're the Bills at 8, it would be a bad pick to get a QB like Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson with the 8th selection?

Let's see, you listed the guy that won the Super Bowl, the guys that finished 4th (Wilson) and 5th (Ryan) in passer rating and a guy who was a few passes short of finishing 7th (Kaep).

In terms of ESPN's total QBR you listed guys that finished 3rd, 4th and 8th.

Who's the 15th best QB in the league? Well, if we go by Total QBR 13th is Romo, 14th is Schaub and 15th is Stafford. In terms of passer rating it goes Dalton, Eli, Newton.

Out of the 13, 14 and 15 guys on those lists the only two I would consider trading the 8th overall pick for are Eli and Cam.

Now, you focus on this year, which is a little misleading since the QB class is so weak this year. How about last year? Do you think Washington would have traded their first round pick for Matt Schaub rather than move up to get RG3? How about Romo?

 

[NinerSickness]

QBR is a load of crap, and it's beneath you to cite it.

In no particular order there are:

Peyton
Brady
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Brees
Eli
Rivers

I'm not referring to guys like these. Andrew Luck will soon be on that list. There's 8. A couple more names, and you have the 10th best QB in the NFL, which you said isn't worth a top 10 pick.

If the NFL throws all QBs into a pool & you just start picking QBs, who are the first 10 guys you would take? Are all four of the names I mentioned on that list?

Do you think Washington would have traded their first round pick for Matt Schaub rather than move up to get RG3? How about Romo?

I don't consider Schaub & Romo top 10 guys, and I think Bray will be better than both of them.

 

[imac_21]

QBR is a load of crap, and it's beneath you to cite it.

In no particular order there are:

Peyton
Brady
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Brees
Eli
Rivers

I'm not referring to guys like these. Andrew Luck will soon be on that list. There's 8. A couple more names, and you have the 10th best QB in the NFL, which you said isn't worth a top 10 pick.

If the NFL throws all QBs into a pool & you just start picking QBs, who are the first 10 guys you would take? Are all four of the names I mentioned on that list?



I don't consider Schaub & Romo top 10 guys, and I think Bray will be better than both of them.

Who are your top 10? And what happened to the top 15 you were talking about earlier?

Most importantly, how many times has a QB been top 10 without throwing a regular season pass? You're telling me that based on preseason snaps against second stringers that in 2016 Bray would be in the same class as (hypothetically) Ryan, Flacco, Kapernick, Luck, Wilson, RG3, Rodgers and whoever else you want to project to the top 10 (Tannehill, Eli, Ben)?

You think a backup makes it into that class?

 

[NinerSickness]

Who are your top 10? And what happened to the top 15 you were talking about earlier?

I mentioned 4 names in response to your post:

In a league with 32 starting QBs, it's really not a steal to get the 15th (or 10th) best with a top 10 pick.

Again, are all 4 of these names in your top 10 list of QBs?

As far as whether Bray would be one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL would depend heavily on uncontrollable variables (luck) like injury. This isn't an exact science. If it were, Ozzie Newsome never would have drafted Kyle Boller, and Tom Brady would've been the first pick of the 2000 draft. I'm looking at talent and potenntial. Bray has a ton of it, and college football (including this draft class) doesn't have much.

 

[NinerSickness]

Let me ask you a fair, simple question 'mac. How much have you actually seen Tyler Bray play in his career? A lot? A little?

 

[ChrisPozz]

If you had to pick just a few favourites from this list, as far as bang for yer buck goes, who would they be?

By the way, Carradine was tops on my list 'til people came to their senses and realized he should be a top 20 pick (I think he should be top 10).

To repeat again I could have listed a bunch more names but to stick to my original list to answer your question - Lacy, Hopkins, Hankins, Brandon Williams, Trevardo Williams, Lemonier, Reid, Cyprien, and Swearinger.

 

[NinerSickness]

Well, I like your list CP. Especially Hankins, Reid & Trevardo. Lemonier is underrated too IMO; very young & athletic.

Swearinger's lack of speed worries me.

Cyprien might have been one of my favourites, but people are talking about him like he's a 1st round pick, and there are too many other prospects available there I'd like more. Maybe he'll drop though.

Lacy's a beast too. That would be one crazy RB coprs. I'd rather see if Lattimore drops to the 4th & use a 2nd rounder on a position of need.

 

[imac_21]

I mentioned 4 names in response to your post:



Again, are all 4 of these names in your top 10 list of QBs?

As far as whether Bray would be one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL would depend heavily on uncontrollable variables (luck) like injury. This isn't an exact science. If it were, Ozzie Newsome never would have drafted Kyle Boller, and Tom Brady would've been the first pick of the 2000 draft. I'm looking at talent and potenntial. Bray has a ton of it, and college football (including this draft class) doesn't have much.

You're right it's not an exact science. I'm wondering how you plan on turning Bray into a top 10 QB without him actually playing.

 

[imac_21]

Let me ask you a fair, simple question 'mac. How much have you actually seen Tyler Bray play in his career? A lot? A little?

I saw him a fair bit last year. Didn't see him this year.

But it isn't about whether or not he is skilled enough to be a top 10 QB. It's whether or not he IS a top 10 QB in 2015/2016 without playing, and can you convince a team somewhere of that.

 

[NinerSickness]

But it isn't about whether or not he is skilled enough to be a top 10 QB. It's whether or not he IS a top 10 QB in 2015/2016 without playing, and can you convince a team somewhere of that.

Well, that's the $63,000 question. I think they can.

 

[imac_21]

Well, that's the $63,000 question. I think they can.

Do you have any theories on how? No team I'm aware of has ever managed to convince another team a current NFL player is worth a top 10 pick without regular season snaps?

NE couldn't convince anyone that Cassel was worth a first round pick.

Philly couldn't convince anyone that Kolb was worth a first round pick.

Atlanta couldn't convince anyone that Schaub was worth a first round pick.

Green Bay couldn't convince anyone that Flynn (or Brooks, or Brunell) was worth a first round pick.

Three of those four teams are known for their drafting and/or QB development. Each of those QBs had more regular season experience than you are proposing for Bray.

 

[NinerSickness]

NE couldn't convince anyone that Cassel was worth a first round pick.

Philly couldn't convince anyone that Kolb was worth a first round pick.

Atlanta couldn't convince anyone that Schaub was worth a first round pick.

Green Bay couldn't convince anyone that Flynn (or Brooks, or Brunell) was worth a first round pick.

That's because all of those QBs suck (except Brunell). Especially Cassell. Schaub sucks the least of that bunch of current players, but he's still a guy I would hate to have as my starting QB.

Bray is far more talented than those guys.

It only takes 1 hit to realize an un-tapped gold mine (see last year).

 

[imac_21]

That's because all of those QBs suck (except Brunell). Especially Cassell. Schaub sucks the least of that bunch of current players, but he's still a guy I would hate to have as my starting QB.

Bray is far more talented than those guys.

It only takes 1 hit to realize an un-tapped gold mine (see last year).

No one knew those guys sucked at the time. Cassel, Schaub and Kolb were all being talked about as legitimate starting QBs in the league. As was Matt Flynn at this time a year ago.

How many QBs in the league right now are better than Schaub? I would imagine most people would put him in the top 15.

 

[dredinis21]

First, bray reminds me more of Jeff George then Andrew Luck...million dollar arm, ten cent head. I don't believe that simply being able to make all the NFL throws all of the sudden warrants a second rd pick. The guy is, according to multiple accounts I have read, immature and I'm not quite sure of his intelligence. Not sold on Bray as a successful QB in the league at ALL.

Second, I don't think that us using anything higher then a 4th rd pick on a backup QB is smart based on averages on returns. If you plan on flipping a QB for future draft picks, then you need to make sure you are on the winning side of that trade. Nobody, as Imac has sort of already proven, trades unknowns for anything higher then a 2nd round pick at best. To use a 2nd rd pick when the best return you could possibly have is even money seems like a silly proposition. What the Redskins did last season was brilliant even though they got blasted for it. They used a 4th rd pick on a guy they graded as a high 2nd rd pick. Those are probabilities on returns I can jive with.

 

[NinerSickness]

No one knew those guys sucked at the time.

I did. I even said so when they were traded.

And Schaub is the worst kind of QB to have. Just good enough not to keep his job.

 

[Dodub]

Oh jeez

 

[NinerSickness]

Oops, I meant to say Schaub is just good enough to keep his job.